PRSI Forum discussion

[I7guy]

[...picture removed]
For @bopajuice who I thought was insightful & funny.

I wasn't aware of the new rule change either.

Perhaps that's the reason there's been a small contingent trying so hard to get others moderated. Still can't see the reason why, it makes the forum a lot less interesting without the likes of Bopa & others.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/prsi-forum-discussion.2106339/page-11#post-26218040 Good analysis of the rules. There is no reason despite having different views, there needs to be any of these examples of responses posted. The site has tightened up (at least imo) to not have PRSI be the equivalent of an old western movie bar room brawl. Name calling and provocation is very easy to do in the heat of the moment.

The moderation that was exposed and subsequent discussion by forum members has been interesting and useful.

 

[RichardMZhlubb]

Just because what you think is "explicitly racist" doesn't make it so. Anyway, as far as PRSI goes, that's for the moderators to decide, not you. As I see it, in #1, [I'm going to redact the name instead of repeating it] appears to be referring to American culture, which isn't racist and doesn't violate the rules. But calling him a racist in response, as you did, could be interpreted as misstating his views, which is a violation.

I don't think you can reach those conclusions without reading the 7 or 8 comments that preceded the comment I responded to. They were far more explicit in their support for white supremacist ideals. Part of my frustration and why I responded as I did, was that those comments remained in the thread for over a day without apparent moderation.

When it comes to something like support for white supremacy, I think that Justice Brandeis had the right idea when he said that sunlight is the best disinfectant. Behind-the-scenes moderation of that sort of thing just hides the fact that we have a member who holds such abhorrent views.

 

[I7guy]

I don't think you can reach those conclusions without reading the 7 or 8 comments that preceded the comment I responded to. They were far more explicit in their support for white supremacist ideals. Part of my frustration and why I responded as I did, was that those comments remained in the thread for over a day without apparent moderation.

When it comes to something like support for white supremacy, I think that Justice Brandeis had the right idea when he said that sunlight is the best disinfectant. Behind-the-scenes moderation of that sort of thing just hides the fact that we have a member who holds such abhorrent views.

It's still not up to you to police the forum, that's for the mods. Anybody who has any questions, could open up their moderation history here as you did and then the moderation wouldn't be behind-the-scenes and everyone gets to see the picture.

However, since MR is a private site, and they are letting the public use their space, only consideration is to follow the rules, which seems a worthwhile trade-off. Then to top off that largesse, MR provides a public forum to discuss site specific stuff. The staff and mods partake in an open conversation about the site and the way it's run, explain their position in excruciating detail and people are still complaining.

You can't make this stuff up.

 

[SoggyCheese]

I’ve been kicked out of there for being sarcastic or whatever. TBH it’s made my visits here more pleasant. There are people in the world whose politics I find utterly repulsive. Why do I need to converse with such people? It’s not going to end well.

PRSI has a place, but I see now that it’s not a particularly healthy place. There are no trophies for winning arguments on the Internet.

 

[RichardMZhlubb]

It's still not up to you to police the forum, that's for the mods. Anybody who has any questions, could open up their moderation history here as you did and then the moderation wouldn't be behind-the-scenes and everyone gets to see the picture.

When someone posts repeatedly about the decimation of the culture of white people due to the infestation of brown people, I'm not going to ignore it. If that violates the rules and means that I'm permanently banned from the discussion, so be it.

 

[I7guy]

When someone posts repeatedly about the decimation of the culture of white people due to the infestation of brown people, I'm not going to ignore it. If that violates the rules and means that I'm permanently banned from the discussion, so be it.

Instead of reporting the trolling, you violated the rules and got a suspension from PRSI. How does that help you, or help other forums members with your loss of ability to post? Or respond in a manner that aligns with the rules.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It’s amusing this ‘us and them’ mentality that is thrown around PRSI, (heavily influenced by the US media and the current President), is now being used to accuse the mods of bias. This obsession with labelling those who do not agree with you is what has divided the culture from which many here post from and causes clashes in debates here regardless of people’s backgrounds.

 

[RichardMZhlubb]

Instead of reporting the trolling, you violated the rules and got a suspension from PRSI. How does that help you, or help other forums members with your loss of ability to post? Or respond in a manner that aligns with the rules.

Which is why, as I have said here, that rule should be changed. If I had simply reported the posts (as I later did), they would have been removed and the poster would have been suspended and later allowed to continue posting. I think that people should be made aware of the fact that posters have these sorts of views, instead of just hiding the problem.

 

[Plutonius]

Heck, I wouldn't mind that being a rule for PRSI saying articles can't be behind paywalls

I would have issues for getting a warning on this. Many times, a paywall doesn't come in until you have read xxx articles in a month and you may not even realize it.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Instead of reporting the trolling, you violated the rules and got a suspension from PRSI. How does that help you, or help other forums members with your loss of ability to post? Or respond in a manner that aligns with the rules.

Very inconsistent moderation and application of the rules is huge problem here, and the primary reason why merely reporting doesn't work.

The rule against insults is a prime example - it is highly subjective with a huge gray area. Hate speech that is directed at a whole group but not directed at a specific forum member seems to be left up more often than not, but calling out someone's hate speech as stupid or idiotic is considered a directed insult against a forum member that is against the rules.

Another example is the rule against trolling. That one is a total coin toss when it comes to the mods doing anything about it. There is no rhyme or reason behind it, sometimes it's addressed but more often it's not.

Another is cursing. How is it ok to put up hateful speech that doesn't contain any curses, but not ok to curse in a colloquial and harmless way?

There are many other examples. It's sad to say, but the average subreddit has much better moderation.

 

[Videomanmac]

It's still not up to you to police the forum, that's for the mods. Anybody who has any questions, could open up their moderation history here as you did and then the moderation wouldn't be behind-the-scenes and everyone gets to see the picture.

However, since MR is a private site, and they are letting the public use their space, only consideration is to follow the rules, which seems a worthwhile trade-off. Then to top off that largesse, MR provides a public forum to discuss site specific stuff. The staff and mods partake in an open conversation about the site and the way it's run, explain their position in excruciating detail and people are still complaining.

You can't make this stuff up.

People seem to be hounding the fact it is a private site and we are on their land, per se. While that is true, you don't see people getting kicked out of Walmart for saying you only watch fox news, or even calling someone an idiot. You only get kicked out if you steal, or cause monetary damage, which in the case of a forum. I'd suppose that would be hacking the forum or DDoS'ing it.

And so far only the moderators have chimed in their opinions, the admins have not came in here yet. So far, the moderators actions have gone unchecked and unbalanced.
[doublepost=1530888024][/doublepost]

I would have issues for getting a warning on this. Many times, a paywall doesn't come in until you have read xxx articles in a month and you may not even realize it.

Look at anything from the Wall Street Journal.
[doublepost=1530888077][/doublepost]

Very inconsistent moderation and application of the rules is huge problem here, and the primary reason why merely reporting doesn't work.

The rule against insults is a prime example - it is highly subjective with a huge gray area. Hate speech that is directed at a whole group but not directed at a specific forum member seems to be left up more often than not, but calling out someone's hate speech as stupid or idiotic is considered a directed insult against a forum member that is against the rules.

Another example is the rule against trolling. That one is a total coin toss when it comes to the mods doing anything about it. There is no rhyme or reason behind it, sometimes it's addressed but more often it's not.

Another is cursing. How is it ok to put up hateful speech that doesn't contain any curses, but not ok to curse in a colloquial and harmless way?

There are many other examples. It's sad to say, but the average subreddit has much better moderation.

Very well put, @oneMdRssn! Thank you for chiming in.

 

[I7guy]

People seem to be hounding the fact it is a private site and we are on their land, per se. While that is true, you don't see people getting kicked out of Walmart for saying you only watch fox news, or even calling someone an idiot. You only get kicked out if you steal, or cause monetary damage, which in the case of a forum. I'd suppose that would be hacking the forum or DDoS'ing it.

And so far only the moderators have chimed in their opinions, the admins have not came in here yet. So far, the moderators actions have gone unchecked and unbalanced.
[doublepost=1530888024][/doublepost]
Look at anything from the Wall Street Journal.
[doublepost=1530888077][/doublepost]
Very well put, @oneMdRssn! Thank you for chiming in.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/prsi-forum-discussion.2106339/page-4#post-26207490

 

[Plutonius]

I think most people end up with a PRSI ban because they insist on getting the last word in.

 

[Videomanmac]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/prsi-forum-discussion.2106339/page-4#post-26207490

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/prsi-forum-discussion.2106339/page-7#post-26215206
[doublepost=1530888350][/doublepost]

I think most people end up with a PRSI ban because they insist on getting the last word in.

That simply isn't true, as look at how the people a few pages back have gotten banned (including myself)

 

[I7guy]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/prsi-forum-discussion.2106339/page-7#post-26215206
[doublepost=1530888350][/doublepost]
That simply isn't true, as look at how the people a few pages back have gotten banned (including myself)

You said the admins have not chimed in and @annk is an administrator. I pointed to a post where there was a response. There also is a similar thread discussing essentially the same type of thing.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/anyone-else-feel-like-a-particular-mod-picks-on-them.2105138/
[doublepost=1530888714][/doublepost]

Which is why, as I have said here, that rule should be changed. If I had simply reported the posts (as I later did), they would have been removed and the poster would have been suspended and later allowed to continue posting. I think that people should be made aware of the fact that posters have these sorts of views, instead of just hiding the problem.

Getting suspended from a forum helps no one. It's akin to vigilante justice as you are describing your actions.

 

[Videomanmac]

You said the admins have not chimed in and @annk is an administrator. I pointed to a post where there was a response. There also is a similar thread discussing essentially the same type of thing.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/anyone-else-feel-like-a-particular-mod-picks-on-them.2105138/
[doublepost=1530888714][/doublepost]
Getting suspended from a forum helps no one. It's akin to vigilante justice.

I was banned when that reply was made. Not my fault for not seeing it if the mods weren't so ban happy.

 

[BigMcGuire]

When someone posts repeatedly about the decimation of the culture of white people due to the infestation of brown people, I'm not going to ignore it. If that violates the rules and means that I'm permanently banned from the discussion, so be it.

This would bug the hell out of me because I'm married to a beautiful Peruvian girl. But, I know responding to it would just get me banned. I don't like being the one that reports either. There seem to be a lot of baits like that in PRSI. Like the mods said, they don't go looking for trouble, it usually has to be reported. But I don't want to spend my time making more work for the mods unless it's really obvious so I usually only report posts outside of PRSI (spam, etc...).

But stuff like that catches my eye and makes me want to respond instantly. Wish those damn threads would stay out of my latest threads list on the Forum page, lol. And yes, I have PRSI ignored.
[doublepost=1530890286][/doublepost]

For all the bitching and moaning some of you are doing, even after having the system explained over and over again here, I'm curious; exactly which forum rules are you wanting to break and not get into trouble for?

It appears to me you all just like being victims of the mean staffers and don't want to concede your own faults so that you can continue on being victims and blaming everyone else when you break the rules and get into trouble. Deity forbid some people take responsibility and ownership of their actions. Rather, its almost always the fault of someone else.

Awesome post. Nothing like eating breakfast at work and reading this. I believe I have yet to be warned in PRSI so I think I have a good grasp of the rules. It's not easy, but it is certainly possible, but I avoid posting there because I know if I posted often, I'd most likely be suspended because of my own lack of self control.

 

[Plutonius]

For all the bitching and moaning some of you are doing, even after having the system explained over and over again here, I'm curious; exactly which forum rules are you wanting to break and not get into trouble for?

It appears to me you all just like being victims of the mean staffers and don't want to concede your own faults so that you can continue on being victims and blaming everyone else when you break the rules and get into trouble. Deity forbid some people take responsibility and ownership of their actions. Rather, its almost always the fault of someone else.

I have no complaints with the moderation.

Could you please add PRSI suspend or PRSI banned to the person's Avatar (like you currently do to banned or suspended people). It could even say "no PRSI access" in the avatar.

I currently have no idea if the person I'm answering or replying to can still reply back to me.

 

[lowendlinux]

With all this public sphincter emptying I hope the end result isn't a deletion of the sub-forum.

 

[Videomanmac]

I have no complaints with the moderation.

Could you please add PRSI suspend or PRSI banned to the person's Avatar (like you currently do to banned or suspended people). It could even say "no PRSI access" in the avatar.

I currently have no idea if the person I'm answering or replying to can still reply back to me.

I'd think it would be an unnecessary step for the Engineers to do, and it would also violate the rules of moderation privacy. Good idea, but not doable.

 

[S.B.G]

Could you please add PRSI suspend or PRSI banned to the person's Avatar (like you currently do to banned or suspended people). It could even say "no PRSI access" in the avatar.

I'm retired from the staff. You could send a Contact message in and inquire about it. I'm not sure if the forum software can do that or not.
[doublepost=1530892200][/doublepost]

With all this public sphincter emptying I hope the end result isn't a deletion of the sub-forum.

That isn't likely to happen. @arn has stated in the past that PRSI isn't going anywhere.

 

[oneMadRssn]

That isn't likely to happen. @arn has stated in the past that PRSI isn't going anywhere.

When the cost and trouble of moderation outweighs the revenue from banner ads, I bet they would consider it. But considering moderation is nearly free, and I don't think that time will come.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Not sure what that has to do with my post but if you want to raise that as a point then you have to be prepared not to be ‘anti’ other’s countries yourself. You’ve taken pot shots at me being from the UK twice in this very thread which was irrelevant and unnecessary.

This is why you are getting little sympathy with your complaints. You criticise the mods for an imaginary bias and demand the right to freedom of speech as long as you agree with it and it doesn’t criticise your political leaning or country of origin. Try being reasonable with your responses and discussions are less likely to go south.

Bravo, very well said, and I am in complete agreement with you.

 

[OllyW]

Threads and posts on controversial political, religious, and social issues are to be limited to the Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum, and made only by those eligible for that forum.

Thread closed because the discussion has gone deep
into PRSI territory.

It may be reopened after it has been cleaned up.

 

[Doctor Q]

Moderation note

A number of off-topic posts have been removed from this thread, along with any replies that would no longer make sense without the posts they were replying to or quoting.

You are welcome to discuss the moderated posts quoted here by the members who have waived their right to privacy, including whether or not you think that the posts violated the rules. But please do not discuss politics, religion, or social issues (the topics of some of those posts) in this thread. Comments on those topics belong in the PRSI forum.

Thank you.