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Did I... say anything about that? No. :confused:

How is your point even relevant? When the consumer goes to research, they find that Apple sells computers that do MORE than browse photos, as an ad can hardly detail something like Photoshop, Logic, or Final Cut to the uninformed.
Apple is trying to target people with a $600 budget, they don't need a $1200 iMac to edit photos.

That's the most inane conclusion I have ever heard. A human does not jump to that conclusion without knowing the outcome in advance.
Apple is advertising a virus free OS that is best for your digital lifestyle - they shouldn't be advertising that with the prices they have.

Apple doesn't MAKE the machine that you WANT. So buy from someone else.
Apple doesn't make the machine billions of people want, despite the fact they are advertising to these same exact people (what's funny, is that you say Apple does not cater to me yet their ENTIRE ad campaign is about catering to non-Mac users).

Not with their current structure.
Which is why they change it a little.

13-inch MacBook 2GHz 2GB DDR2 RAM 160GB 5400RPM HD 9400M for $799, 16-inch MB 2GHz 2GB DDR3 RAM 250GB 7200RPM HD 9400M for $999.

So... let's see... give us some facts. Link us to reviews that measure performance on both OS' for a wide variety of programs, not just one measly one that you find with Google and deem worthy.
Do you seriously think Toast is superior to Nero or MacSpeech Dictate is superior to Dragon Naturally Speaking?
 
I'm sorry to read this. I like Psystar and what they had to offer. I was waiting to see what laptops they said they were working on. Their prices weren't too pricey either when you looked at the parts. I know they had a margin but it looked really thin.
 
Apple is trying to target people with a $600 budget, they don't need a $1200 iMac to edit photos.

How... do you come to that conclusion? Where does Apple ever say they're targeting the sub $1,000 market?

Apple is advertising a virus free OS that is best for your digital lifestyle - they shouldn't be advertising that with the prices they have.

You have NO PLACE to dictate what a company advertises, what a company makes, and what a company charges unless you own the company. Next you'll be all up ons BMW, Swarkovsky, and Monster for their "incorrect" advertising.

Do you seriously think Toast is superior to Nero or MacSpeech Dictate is superior to Dragon Naturally Speaking?

Do you seriously think that the difference between Final Cut Studio and Avid is little more than personal preference in the industry anymore?

It would take Final Cut Studio 3 and full multithreading through all of its applications, coupled with Snow Leopard to differentiate. And that's the point.
 
How... do you come to that conclusion? Where does Apple ever say they're targeting the sub $1,000 market?
http://www.apple.com/getamac/



You have NO PLACE to say what a company advertises. Next you'll be all up ons BMW, Swarkovsky, and Monster for their "incorrect" advertising.
They do not advertise incorrectly.

Do you seriously think that the difference between Final Cut Studio and Avid is little more than personal preference in the industry anymore?
The only people who care about Final Cut Studio are as you said in the industry, why the heck would I care about FCS?

It would take Final Cut Studio 3 and full multithreading through all of its applications, coupled with Snow Leopard to differentiate. And that's the point.[/QUOTE]
 
Apple is trying to target people with a $600 budget, they don't need a $1200 iMac to edit photos.

No one does. In fact, no one needs a computer to edit pictures. It's a luxury we grow into.

Apple is advertising a virus free OS that is best for your digital lifestyle - they shouldn't be advertising that with the prices they have.

Why not? I pay for peace of mind.

Apple doesn't make the machine billions of people want, despite the fact they are advertising to these same exact people (what's funny, is that you say Apple does not cater to me yet their ENTIRE ad campaign is about catering to non-Mac users).

They don't, they make what some people like. If other are interested good for them. You are not being forced to buy a Mac. Last I checked ads don't carry mind control technology.

Which is why they change it a little.

13-inch MacBook 2GHz 2GB DDR2 RAM 160GB 5400RPM HD 9400M for $799, 16-inch MB 2GHz 2GB DDR3 RAM 250GB 7200RPM HD 9400M for $999.

You are not making any sense..

Do you seriously think Toast is superior to Nero or MacSpeech Dictate is superior to Dragon Naturally Speaking?

Where are the links? You speak from personal opinion, which I'm sorry to break it, doesn't prove valuable or useful if you have no credits or experience in the industry behind you what so ever.


Which ad?

They do not advertise incorrectly.

See above.

The only people who care about Final Cut Studio are as you said in the industry, why the heck would I care about FCS?

Yes, then why are you arguing?

And that's the point.

Yet you fail at seeing the point. I'm confused in your logic :confused:
 
No one does. In fact, no one needs a computer to edit pictures. It's a luxury we grow into.
coo


Why not? I pay for peace of mind.
Norton Anti-Virus if you want to pay.


They don't, they make what some people like. If other are interested good for them. You are not being forced to buy a Mac. Last I checked ads don't carry mind control technology.
Everytime I go to a store everyone is all interested in Macs, and then they hear the prices and slowly walk out lol. It's funny. Though sometimes I do see one or two people get a Mac.

You are not making any sense..
A new superior MacBook line, instead of the overpriced garbage Apple has now.

Where are the links? You speak from personal opinion, which I'm sorry to break it, doesn't prove valuable or useful if you have no credits or experience in the industry behind you what so ever.
I have never met someone who thought Toast was better than Nero or Dictate is better than DNS... could this be a first?
 

ok...

Norton Anti-Virus if you want to pay.

Not like a Mac, out of the box.


Everytime I go to a store everyone is all interested in Macs, and then they hear the prices and slowly walk out lol. It's funny. Though sometimes I do see one or two people get a Mac.

It's people who are browsing and are free to make their choice, they have obviously made theirs. Others make the choice to buy a Mac, simple economics, oh wait, you fail to understand this concept.

A new superior MacBook line, instead of the overpriced garbage Apple has now.

MacBooks don't need over loaded hardware. OS X is not Vista. (reed: Bloatware)

I have never met someone who thought Toast was better than Nero or Dictate is better than DNS... could this be a first?

I never said Toast was better. I just want you to support your reasoning thru very well stated quotes and links. Just saying so doesn't cut it. I can say I like MacSpeech, but that is my opinion, can I prove it? That's something else.

So, can you put your money where your mouth is? Or can you not? Now, where are those links?

Almost all of them (especially ones dealing with iLife).

So Apple advertises that iLife is great. So what? Is there a Windows counter for that? Also, iLife deals with applications to make your life easier and better electronic wise (like making an easy home movie or picture album). iLife is in no way a method to save money or compete in the sub $1000 market. Fail

I don't care about Final Cut so I am not arguing.

Here I thought you were ....
 
Not like a Mac, out of the box.
Many PC manufacturers put Norton for you right out of the box, and even then it doesn't take long to install it.

It's people who are browsing and are free to make their choice, they have obviously made theirs. Others make the choice to buy a Mac, simple economics, oh wait, you fail to understand this concept.
I do understand this, I just don't see how this relates to what I am saying. I am saying that Apple should make more configurations at a more affordable price.

MacBooks don't need over loaded hardware. OS X is not Vista. (reed: Bloatware)
OS X has more bloatware than Vista.

They don't need overloaded hardware, but they should have some configurations and be at a price point that makes sense.

I mean the only way to get a 15 inch laptop from Apple is a $1999 configuration?

There should be a 16-inch MacBook for under $1000

- 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
- 2GB DDR3 SDRAM
- 9400M
- 250GB 7200RPM

$999

Much more configurable but also keeps Apple's premium prices but not so outrageous.

I never said Toast was better. I just want you to support your reasoning thru very well stated quotes and links. Just saying so doesn't cut it. I can say I like MacSpeech, but that is my opinion, can I prove it? That's something else.

So, can you put your money where your mouth is? Or can you not? Now, where are those links?
Why would I need links? Someone here earlier asked me to post a link to 260 million PC sales a year (which I posted 2), but I think he already knew 260 million PCs were sold that year.
 
At the risk of taking some of the punches that seem to be directed zealously at IWantItThatWay:

No one does. In fact, no one needs a computer to edit pictures. It's a luxury we grow into.
Compare with the contemporary market, not 10 or 100 years ago. The GetAMac ads advertise features that appeal to the average low-level user and who, economics[tm] dictate, would not on average have brought a top-of-the-range PC.

Imagine a car advert that says "gets you from A to B, simply and without hassle". That's how I hear the modern Mac sales pitch. Would you anticipate an advert for a reasonably priced, practical car, or would you expect a sports vehicle with a range of high-price custom-made accessories?

Why not? I pay for peace of mind.
"Peace of mind" is one of those meaningless marketing buzzphrases. If you sleep better at night just because you have a Mac, something is seriously wrong. What do you actually fear?

Where are the links? You speak from personal opinion, which I'm sorry to break it, doesn't prove valuable or useful if you have no credits or experience in the industry behind you what so ever.
OK, I don't have "credits or experience in the industry" of speech recognition, but I do have RSI, and I have to say, Dragon 4 years ago was ahead of MacSpeech today. The latter has finally got the Dragon engine, making it usable, although they have painful pricing, daft requirements on mike selection, and more limited command&control. The editing commands I was used to on Dragon were only partly available, and and and the recognition engine just doesn't seem as quick - even though I was using Dragon on an Athlon 2600XP(!) and my Mac is a Core2Duo.

And now for a less detailed review: Toast sucks. I don't have credits or experience in the industry, of, uh, writing DVDs, so I guess that review is discounted.
 
Many PC manufacturers put Norton for you right out of the box, and even then it doesn't take long to install it.

Ok let me rephrase this, in the form of not needing an Anti-Virus software. The OS alone is enough...

I do understand this, I just don't see how this relates to what I am saying. I am saying that Apple should make more configurations at a more affordable price.

No they don't. Their product, their choice of price.

OS X has more bloatware than Vista.

They don't need overloaded hardware, but they should have some configurations and be at a price point that makes sense.

I mean the only way to get a 15 inch laptop from Apple is a $1999 configuration?

There should be a 16-inch MacBook for under $1000

- 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
- 2GB DDR3 SDRAM
- 9400M
- 250GB 7200RPM

$999

Much more configurable but also keeps Apple's premium prices but not so outrageous.

Apple gives you choice, it's up to you to choose. If you don't like then, you should look else where. Apple shouldn't accommodate to what you want, it is not Dell.

Why would I need links? Someone here earlier asked me to post a link to 260 million PC sales a year (which I posted 2), but I think he already knew 260 million PCs were sold that year.

Yes, still, saying something is =/= meaning its true. If you say and don't back that up, your argument is less useful than white colored paper.
 
At the risk of taking some of the punches that seem to be directed zealously at IWantItThatWay:


Compare with the contemporary market, not 10 or 100 years ago. The GetAMac ads advertise features that appeal to the average low-level user and who, economics[tm] dictate, would not on average have brought a top-of-the-range PC.

Imagine a car advert that says "gets you from A to B, simply and without hassle". That's how I hear the modern Mac sales pitch. Would you anticipate an advert for a reasonably priced, practical car, or would you expect a sports vehicle with a range of high-price custom-made accessories?

You expect that, however, just because you expect it doesn't mean the company will offer it.

"Peace of mind" is one of those meaningless marketing buzzphrases. If you sleep better at night just because you have a Mac, something is seriously wrong. What do you actually fear?

Not fear, but just, its a hassle I don't want. So I pay to not have it.

OK, I don't have "credits or experience in the industry" of speech recognition, but I do have RSI, and I have to say, Dragon 4 years ago was ahead of MacSpeech today. The latter has finally got the Dragon engine, making it usable, although they have painful pricing, daft requirements on mike selection, and more limited command&control. The editing commands I was used to on Dragon were only partly available, and and and the recognition engine just doesn't seem as quick - even though I was using Dragon on an Athlon 2600XP(!) and my Mac is a Core2Duo.

And now for a less detailed review: Toast sucks. I don't have credits or experience in the industry, of, uh, writing DVDs, so I guess that review is discounted.

Fair enough
 
Ok let me rephrase this, in the form of not needing an Anti-Virus software. The OS alone is enough...
So basically all you do when you buy a computer is just use the OS?

No they don't. Their product, their choice of price.
Thus, only 3% of market share.

Apple gives you choice, it's up to you to choose. If you don't like then, you should look else where. Apple shouldn't accommodate to what you want, it is not Dell.
Yeah, basically, Apple gives you underpowered hardware for incredibly high prices. A 9600M GT in a $2500 notebook? WTF?

MacBook Pro 15-inch

- 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
- 4GB DDR3 SDRAM
- 320GB 7200RPM HD
- 9400M + 9600M GT 512MB (upgradable to at least a 9800MGTX 1GB)

$1,799
 
... Competition is definitely good, but the lack of it doesn't seem to halt Apple from further innovation.

No, it doesn't - thanks to the premium margins Apple continues to impose in pricing.

...The only way you could have a feasible market here is if one day Apple licensed OS X, which is something highly unlikely to happen anytime soon, if at all.

Years ago, it didn't work, apparently - but things were slightly different then, weren't they? Is it safe to say: Apple computers weren't a viable player in the personal computing genre back then? Maybe ... however today, it seems to me Apple has a very mature, robust operating system that can arguably hold its own in just about any "crappy hardware" environment with which it ends up being paired.

...Can you imagine how much market share windows might loose to OS X if Dell were legally allowed to offer OS X as a factory install on their Net books, laptops, and desktops?

Significant. However, that business model would be akin to building an ivory tower in a trailer park. :eek:

(Not that I wouldn't mind an Aluminum Unibody Dell Mini 10V ... )

Unfortunately that's what some people what Apple to turn into, a bargain brand.

Some. Others would like to see the margin come down a bit and offer more customizable hardware options for purchase in a price range somewhere between iPhone and MacBook and iMac to Mac Pro.

...As much as the computing world likes to claim those of us who own Apple products are snobs with too much money and too little sense and that Apple plays on our inflated views of self-importance to fleece us for hundreds and even thousands of dollars, the fact is that Apple products, services and technologies provide us with something of sufficient extra value to justify the extra price...

I don't think all folks who buy Apple products are snobs. However, there are many (quite a lot, actually) in the Mac community whose inflated views of self transcend anything Apple could do at a retail store. :eek: Is it any wonder how galvanized these folks become when their special link to Apple exclusivity diminishes?

You've hit the nail right on the head with the bold above. It's why I'm saving for my next Mac computer - instead of the relatively cheaper PC with comparable specs.

...I get the feeling that many of Apple's defenders are on the other side when the RIAA tries to pull stuff like this. After all, you don't own the music on a CD that you buy, just a "license to listen", so they should be able to prohibit ripping to iPods or selling used CDs, right?

This is an interesting premise. Reminds me of "Do as I say ... not as I do ..." from my youth.

...it's not even worth discussing, obviously beyond a reasonable doubt Dell is not going to involve itself in something like this.

They'd be foolish to ... but I sure would like to have seen this entire matter resolve in court. Still, I'm glad there are some hardware synergies between Apple and other PC manufacturers like DELL today. It allows the hackintosh community to test the unchartered waters and possibilities should Apple (and its apologists) ever change their minds about license exclusivity and EULA doctrine.

...As they say in Sales and Marketing: Perception is reality. If consumers feel that Apple is premium quality, great. But wouldn't you think that if it's premium quality they would have better marketshare...

This is probably the one paradox that confuses most people. However, I'm certain Uncle Steve has carefully, but simply calculated that the opportunity cost to increase market share is too great of a risk for the company's bottom line. It's far more profitable to the shareholders and company not to license OS X to others and keep those margins high and fanboys arrogant.

As for Psystar's demise, I give the post of the evening to Veri:

... Losing because you are weak rather than because your case is weak is what happens in a society of men, not a society of laws.

Brilliant.

:apple:
 
Ok let me rephrase this, in the form of not needing an Anti-Virus software. The OS alone is enough...
So you have no software on your Mac or gateway to check for suspicious behaviour? No intrusion detection system running anywhere at all? I see. What happens when someone makes use of one of the half dozen exploits that at any one time Apple takes ages to fix (or never even mentions), decides to casually log in to what is to them a Unix server without an experienced admin, and casually downloads all your private files?

There's no profit in mass targeting of Apple desktops because there aren't enough of them. So any attack on you is perhaps going to be targeted - maybe someone who you've rubbed up the wrong way. What protection do you have against this, apart from self-confidence?

Apple gives you choice, it's up to you to choose. If you don't like then, you should look else where. Apple shouldn't accommodate to what you want, it is not Dell.
Err, what? Apple isn't a religion. Why shouldn't anyone loudly ask a company they have some fondness for to cater for their tastes?
 
So basically all you do when you buy a computer is just use the OS?

Haven't you learned anything? People buy Apple because of the OS many times.

Thus, only 3% of market share.

Yes, those are the ones that choose to get a mac.

Yeah, basically, Apple gives you underpowered hardware for incredibly high prices. A 9600M GT in a $2500 notebook? WTF?

MacBook Pro 15-inch

- 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
- 4GB DDR3 SDRAM
- 320GB 7200RPM HD
- 9400M + 9600M GT 512MB (upgradable to at least a 9800MGTX 1GB)

$1,799

Now why should Apple do this? Oh wait, they shouldn't, like I said before, their product, their pricing, you don't like it, buy from somewhere else.
 
Haven't you learned anything? People buy Apple because of the OS many times.
I mean what's the point of the "out of the box" argument?

Yes, those are the ones that choose to get a mac.
Yes.
Now why should Apple do this? Oh wait, they shouldn't, like I said before, their product, their pricing, you don't like it, buy from somewhere else.
[/quote]
Apple should do this to increase sales and profit.
 
So you have no software on your Mac or gateway to check for suspicious behaviour? No intrusion detection system running anywhere at all? I see. What happens when someone makes use of one of the half dozen exploits that at any one time Apple takes ages to fix (or never even mentions), decides to casually log in to what is to them a Unix server without an experienced admin, and casually downloads all your private files?

There's no profit in mass targeting of Apple desktops because there aren't enough of them. So any attack on you is perhaps going to be targeted - maybe someone who you've rubbed up the wrong way. What protection do you have against this, apart from self-confidence?

I know when there is something going on with my laptop. I have network monitor to see in/outs of Mb/s and have an Income/outgoing connection widget. Also, I practice safe browsing (ie, not visiting dodgy sites or tormenting pirated software)

I am not ignorant on security, but the Mac provides the best security their is right now. Why is that? Many reasons, low customer base, disinterest of hackers are very likely. However, that doesn't mean over self-confidence.

Err, what? Apple isn't a religion. Why shouldn't anyone loudly ask a company they have some fondness for to cater for their tastes?

Yes, it's not a religion, but you are free to choose among Apple's options. If you see none you like, then you can go about choosing else where. No one has a gun in your head saying buy that $1999 MacBook Pro!
 
I mean what's the point of the "out of the box" argument?

The OS is also part of the out of the box experience.


took you long enough

Apple should do this to increase sales and profit.

Check Apple's last quarter profit. Also, Apple has many times stated, they are here to provide Quality over Quantity.

We are the 3% of the population that rock. :)

That we are:cool::apple:
 
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