Jobs said a "Bag of Hurt" not Dirt and he was talking about licensing not about the format.
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Psystar Files for Bankruptcy
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Jobs said a "Bag of Hurt" not Dirt and he was talking about licensing not about the format.
I thought he said "Bag of Pert" and was referring to the earliest adopters of all new high capacity media.
must..sleep..soon...
Look, as it's been said on every page - a mac is not for you if you want to upgrade anything more that RAM or HD's, you need a PC.
this thread should of died quite a long time ago.
why apple is worrying about paystar i donno, maybe they are trying to teach future companies a lesson!?
why apple is worrying about paystar i donno, maybe they are trying to teach future companies a lesson!?
Oh, okay. It is a bag of hurt though - waste of technology.
The format is a bag of worthless. I can't believe we still even have optical discs.
Bed time
So, here's my last post. Yes, I would like to pay less for a computer that ships with Mac OSX. However:
Other manufacturers have chosen to outsource their operating system to the lowest bidder (MSFT). Apple has chosen to develop its own OS. Apple's business model charges more up front in exchange for a low price on OS updates. If they were to lower their hardware prices, they'd charge you a "reasonable" update fee, say $400 like Microsoft charges. That represents a significant barrier, as MSFT has discovered. NOBODY wants to update to Vista. As a result, I would argue that PC users have been harmed by their model. I know that when I buy a Mac, I'll be able to afford to use it for years. Moreover, the software I pay for today (included in the price I pay for Apple hardware) allows me to use that hardware better now, and for the life of the unit, than that same hardware running any Microsoft product. And as for hardware, notice how the Microsoft shills fail to argue against obvious Apple superiority in features such as the multitouch track pad. Awesome.
As per my previous post, you guys arguing for cheap hardware are under the influence of Microsoft. You are just afraid to argue the software side.
So, here's my last post. Yes, I would like to pay less for a computer that ships with Mac OSX. However:
Other manufacturers have chosen to outsource their operating system to the lowest bidder (MSFT). Apple has chosen to develop its own OS. Apple's business model charges more up front in exchange for a low price on OS updates. If they were to lower their hardware prices, they'd charge you a "reasonable" update fee, say $400 like Microsoft charges. That represents a significant barrier, as MSFT has discovered. NOBODY wants to update to Vista. As a result, I would argue that PC users have been harmed by their model. I know that when I buy a Mac, I'll be able to afford to use it for years. Moreover, the software I pay for today (included in the price I pay for Apple hardware) allows me to use that hardware better now, and for the life of the unit, than that same hardware running any Microsoft product. And as for hardware, notice how the Microsoft shills fail to argue against obvious Apple superiority in features such as the multitouch track pad. Awesome.
As per my previous post, you guys arguing for cheap hardware are under the influence of Microsoft. You are just afraid to argue the software side.
The true Psystar backers will be pretty well insulated against discovery.It could take quite some investigating to get through all the shell companies etc etc.
Actually, one of the few bright spots in the technology sector has been blu-ray media, blu-ray movies, and blu-ray player sales.
Prices have dropped on all three and all three are seeing sales increase dramatically.
Meanwhile AppleTV sales and digital movie purchases have been poor. Hulu TV and digital movie rentals have been very popular.
To me this indicates that people don't want to have libraries of average quality digital movie downloads. But would rather rent the download quality for immediate viewing and purchase blu-ray for the high-quality archive or collection.
The thread has Old Yeller written all over it. I stopped reading at page 18 once I saw the exact same argument rehashed, not once, but twice. I figure at 24 pages, it should come up again another .66667 times.
Put it down before it becomes rabid.
Put it down before it becomes rabid.
Mr. Psystar Gates please stand up!!
Gates is the last person I would expect to back Psystarhe's too busy with his philanthropy stuff to give a nickel about some Mac clone.
Oh God!! the International Troll Face!!!
Looks more like someone wearing butthead hat again (_!_)
A clean room implementation of OS X? Are you suggesting they make their own version of OS X from scratch that is compatible with Apple's??? There's a USB device to emulate EFI now that doesn't infringe on anything owned by Apple. It'll allow OS X to install on any compatible hardware. There is no NEED To reverse engineer anything because OS X doesn't need special hardware. It just needs EFI support instead of BIOS.
You've been typing that since I posted, haven't you?
It's over; no sense in arguing anymore. Not a monopoly. Toyota doesn't have a monopoly. Sony doesn't have a monopoly. Heck, even Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly... because people ALREADY HAVE A CHOICE.
I never said monopoly. I said a virtual monopoly on a market segment (i.e a description of what they have, not a legal term). There's a big difference. Traditional definitions of monopolies are totally irrelevant because anti-trust law does not REQUIRE a monopoly. It only requires active attempts to thwart competition and no one in their right mind could argue that Apple isn't trying to do that by preventing suing anyone that wants to sell generic clone hardware with OS X while paying Apple for OS X. And you're wrong. I don't have any choice to buy hardware that will run my Mac software library from ANYONE but Apple according to Apple. Where's my CHOICE for hardware there? I should switch to Windows? Is Apple going to reimburse me for all my Mac software so I can do that? Maybe they should if they're going to tell me I have to buy their hardware to run OS X.
Maybe they'll put something in the Eula that says I have to own an iPhone in order to use my Mac next? Maybe I'll have to buy an AppleTV too in the future? Where does it end? You seem to believe that Apple is legally allowed to put anything they want or force you to buy any hardware they want you to buy from them into a Eula and that it is binding regardless of the law. Let me assure that you're just plain wrong. If Apple's EULA violates the law, it's null and void. Tying has already been deemed ILLEGAL and that is what Apple is doing when they tell you have to buy your computer hardware from THEM ONLY in order to install OS X. You can pretend that is not the case, but the law is the law and they are NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED TO DICTATE WHAT OTHER PRODUCTS YOU MUST BUY just to install a software program from another market (software and hardware are NOT the same market so therefore it IS tying and it is ILLEGAL).
I really don't understand why some of you cannot see that BASIC LOGIC. If they are tying, it's ILLEGAL (tying means forcing you to buy one product via legal contract in order to use another product; Xerox lost that case because hardware and software support are two different things). Apple clearly are tying OS X to their clone hardware in the Eula so it IS illegal and therefore it's NULL and VOID and therefore installing OS X is perfectly legal. I only WISH it would go to court so their virtual monopoly on OS X hardware could be ended once and for all. Their lack of choices in the mid-range tower area cements that desire for me. If they are not going to offer competitive prices or choices for hardware then someone else should do it for them. I should not have to pay $2600 to get a machine that can do what a $900 PC clone tower can do with the same operating system. That is downright gouging, IMO. They purposely offer not expandable tower options so that if you want certain features, you MUST buy a $2700+ Mac Pro. It's unavoidable unless you go Hackintosh. That is absurd.
The Eula is IRRELEVANT in that regard because it's NOT LEGAL TO TIE SOFTWARE TO NON-PROPRIETY HARDWARE. *PERIOD*. Apple is saying if you want to install OS X, you *MUST* buy your hardware from us. You explain to me how that is *NOT* a TIE and I'll consider your Eula request. If you say distribution rights, I'll say separate but equal is ILLEGAL also. Apple cannot sell the SAME EXACT hardware as someone else and claim they are somehow separate from that hardware only by some clause in the Eula that says you MUST buy hardware from them and them alone. Because nothing else separates them but that clause. The hardware is not only "equal" but it's IDENTICAL. Yet they claim it's somehow special so you can only run OS X on it when that's a flat out lie? Sure they want you to buy their hardware. Why should they want you to buy your computer from Dell when they make more money selling you their computer? But what does writing an operating system have to do with forcing you to buy their computers in order to use that operating system? They are separate products and markets! Geeze, it's so BLATANT a violation I think only a fanatic could not see it.
Some of you seem to ENJOY paying 2-3x the prices for the SAME EXACT HARDWARE underneath the case and you actually defend Apple's claim to tell you what hardware you can use and what you can do with that hardware, even though it's unrelated to running OS X since the hardware is the SAME HARDWARE. To me, someone that thinks like that DESERVES to be robbed by Apple. You don't see or care how your own beliefs about Apple are simply robbing you of your rights, choices and money. Worshiping Steve is a religion, not a business practice and has no place in a logical discussion but that is what I see constantly on here from the fanatics.
Apple can sell an operating system. They can sell computer hardware. They can ship computer hardware with their operating system. They cannot tell you that you must buy their computers to install their operating system. Products like Shapeshifter for the Amiga were perfectly legal, for example. If you owned an Apple rom you could run Mac software on your Amiga. It was that simple then and it's still that simple now. Only Apple wants you to believe otherwise. Some of us figured Psystar would never have the money to fight Apple. That does not mean Apple "won" in court. Until it goes to court, nothing can be definitively be said about it. But don't let that stop you....(rolls eyes)
I think you are confusing SIMILAR with EXACT. There are no PCs with the exact same hardware underneath the case in every aspect as any Mac.
Outsource??? And Microsoft is hardly cheap. Linux distros are cheaper to pre-install, but there is not a large enough demand for it.
They install Windows because that is what the people want to buy.
Apple is afraid to put OS X in that same arena. Why? $$$MONEY$$$ That's why.
Apple can soak you for more with one purchase and then keep you paying more with every point release and hardware update.
Apple charges you full price ($129)for a point release, something Microsoft considers a service pack release which they provide for free.
Microsoft charges you for a true update to their OS, not some over hyped point release. And since any Windows user is eligible to buy and upgrade version, that $400 becomes under $200 real fast.
Nobody huh?
I have 78,000 +/- that I know for sure would disagree with you.
I'll give you a little here as the initial release of Vista was buggy, but SP1 resolved those initial issues.
Apples hardware is practically outdated the minute it hits the design table and nearly obsolete (by Steve's calendar) by the time it hits an Apple Store display.
Apple uses and extremely limited hardware model that has little to no room for growth or user installed upgrades.
Steve would prefer you buy a whole new unit rather than upgrade a few outdated components. Tell me which customers are harmed again?
Your point fails as Microsoft is not a hardware manufacturer.
But they do offer multitouch support in their OS.
Microsoft couldn't care less what hardware the OS is running on.
Unlike Apple, Microsoft does not make hardware. They let the hardware maker (Dell, HP, etc) make that call.
And it's up to the HW vendor to write the appropriate drivers for said hardware.
The majority (95%) of issues I've personally encountered with Windows have been caused by poorly written drivers (non-Microsoft) and 3rd party software.
Setup a Windows PC with proven hardware and drivers and use Microsoft programs only, the system runs flawlessly.
Same thing applies to an Apple system.
Use Apple only software and hardware and the system runs flawlessly.
Both system go to hell when 3rd party software is introduced.
Remember, Apple is a HARDWARE company first and foremost. That is why they oppose OS X on other hardware. They make very little money on OS X.
The software is more than capable, as proven by many, to run on generic hardware with equal and in some cases, superior results.
at least there is an upside. in 10 years time Safari4 would be much snappier™ on the newer hardware
i thought it already went to court and they ruled already?? or am i tripping? somebody please fill me in!
Country club members don't want new members to pay less for their memberships than they did. Got to keep the poor and the riff raff out. Let them eat cake.
Strange, how people use this argument when they have no real arguments. Apple went to court against Psystar. They won round after round, with the judge completely rejecting exactly the same arguments that people like you come up with again and again. Yes, Judge Alsup _has_ decided that Apple is not a monopoly, that the question whether Apple is a monopoly is so stupid that he doesn't even have to look at any evidence, and that Apple absolutely has the right of selling MacOS X with a license that doesn't allow Psystar to copy it, and that Psystar has to obey that license.
But anyone who puts you right and doesn't want to suffer that deluge of stupidity must be "some truly religious fan". Nice one.
Glad to see the end of Psystar really..
I'm also happy with Apple's hardware lineup.. It'd help if certain people realise specs aren't the only differentiating feature between products. As long as a machine is suitable to do what you want, it's good. Apple's market isn't soully driven by 3D performance, nor should it be.
I mean, complaining about the "dated" mbp gpu specs.. What really compares to the MBP? I mean, seriously.
I for one am glad Apple aren't selling osX for any old custom hardware though, I like that they can remain focused on the hardware they need to support. It's not just about control.. But it is partly about quality control. They have a plan; - what they're doing obviously works for them. I would like them to come up with a tablet and netbook as much as anyone though.
All this talk of upgrades is odd too, Can you upgrade the competitor's similar products? I wonder how many upgradable Vaio towers Sony sell in oppose to their all-in-ones and laptops? Oh.. None? Hmm. At least the Macpro option is there for the people who need it.
I'm also happy with Apple's hardware lineup.. It'd help if certain people realise specs aren't the only differentiating feature between products. As long as a machine is suitable to do what you want, it's good. Apple's market isn't soully driven by 3D performance, nor should it be.
I mean, complaining about the "dated" mbp gpu specs.. What really compares to the MBP? I mean, seriously.
I for one am glad Apple aren't selling osX for any old custom hardware though, I like that they can remain focused on the hardware they need to support. It's not just about control.. But it is partly about quality control. They have a plan; - what they're doing obviously works for them. I would like them to come up with a tablet and netbook as much as anyone though.
All this talk of upgrades is odd too, Can you upgrade the competitor's similar products? I wonder how many upgradable Vaio towers Sony sell in oppose to their all-in-ones and laptops? Oh.. None? Hmm. At least the Macpro option is there for the people who need it.