Psystar Releases 'Rebel EFI' Software to Enable Installation of Snow Leopard on PCs

[furi0usbee]

It doesn't matter, companies have a legal obligation to defend their IP from any company that is infringing it.

Guess what bucko - every software product you buy has licensing limitations. Thats how the software industry works. For the umpteenth time you do not own the software.

And how many of the licensing limitations have been challenged in court? Probably not many. This could open a can of worms. Yes, I don't buy the OS, the IP.. I buy the right to use it. Just because Apple adds a clause in their license that says I can only use it between the hours of 6AM and noon, may indicate a clause in the agreement, but doesn't mean it has the right to issue such clause.

There are many limitations in those agreements, many are so ridiculous that nobody challenges them. If Apple wants to go after end-users, then good luck. But if they are having trouble going after Psystar, how do you think it will fair with us? 99.99999999% of people click OK and don't read agreements.

Bryan

 

[Bubba Satori]

Try telling that to Microsoft when you try and re-install your Sony OEM version of Windows onto a Dell. They will quite politely tell you to f**k off and buy another license. You can't legally do it, end of story.



Have you seen how much Microsoft charges for their feature complete versions of Windows, compared to OS X?

Also, Windows 2003 Standard Server with a 5-client license ~$980.
Snow Leopard Server on a Mac Mini with 1TB of HD, 4GB RAM and Unlimited Client license about $999.

Snow Leopard Server does way more than Win 2k3 Standard, and includes Snow Leopards ability to be a primary Windows Domain Controller.



The choice to make the OS available to every person/computer is Apple's and Apple's alone. Get over yourself and live with it!



See my first comment. You and everyone else (especially in the US) have this warped view and sense of entitlement to everything. In the real world this isn't the case. There a rules you have to obey and live with, so get used to it.



It's the control freaks that make the OS X experience so compelling and pleasant. Get rid of that control and you'll end up with Windows. My case in point being Windows. Everything moves at a glacial pace.



Your money, yes!
Your product, no. It's Apple's. You have a license to use it per their terms.
Your choice, so make it and stop whining.

Whining. Why yes, I see some.

A dollar for every time that word is used and I could afford a Mac Pro.

 

[furi0usbee]

I almost want to go out and buy a Psystar system just to piss some of you off...

 

[hachre]

Nobody is asking Apple to start putting more work into making OS X work with PCs. The fact is that right now Apple is actively putting work into NOT making it work with PCs.

All we ask is that Apple stops doing that. The PC is an open platform, Apple chose to start using it when they switched to Intel processors, this is no longer _their_ hardware, it's just their configuration of standards. They have no right to lock their software to an open hardware platform and claim that it is legit because it's their complete product.

Sooner or later Apple will lose this right via court. That will be a painful day for an unprepared Apple. If Apple decided however to stop fighting this today, I don't see anything they could lose.

They can stop putting work into locking up OS X and nobody asks them to put a special effort into making it run on PCs either. Just drop the license crap, let everyone who buys it use it on even their toaster if they get it to run, and everyone will be happy.

 

[Mal]

But you are innocent until proven guilty.. in the eyes of the law. Right now Psystar has done nothing illegal apparently.

Look, would I buy a Psytar machine? Not on your life. But as long as they are making a computer to run a piece of software legally acquired, I'm for that. I'm not for stealing the OS. They *must* buy it at retail, or from Apple, or otherwise. But once copy/one machine. If they couldn't prove that, then I would rethink my position.

Bryan

Yes, they are innocent until proven guilty. The suit is not over, so technically nothing has been proven. But, if they fail to produce the documentation proving that they purchased the software, which they have been unable to do when ordered to by a court of law, then Apple's accusation that they are not legally purchasing the software will be ruled to be correct, and they will then officially be considered guilty. Thus, if nothing changes, they will be guilty of IP theft on that grounds alone.

I may have worded it slightly incorrectly, but the basic premise stands.

jW

 

[CharBroiled20s]

Only to young immature folks with a strong sense of entitlement. Adults realise that Apple and Microsoft aren't in the same business and as such, trying to draw a parallele between installing Windows on a Mac and OS X on a PC is quite futile.

I love how you try to make the pivotal issue here age - It's Not.

And you're wrong; Microsoft & Apple are in deed in the same business. They each make operating systems which then peddle to the general public.

Also, your assumption that entitlement ends around midlife is fairly ridiculous. The term may change to self importance or egotism but its the same damn thing in decrepit old farts as in ignorant youths... Some people are assy, bitter and self absorbed... It is what it is... However one thing it's not is relevant in this discussion.

 

[pdjudd]

And how many of the licensing limitations have been challenged in court? Probably not many. This could open a can of worms. Yes, I don't buy the OS, the IP.. I buy the right to use it. Just because Apple adds a clause in their license that says I can only use it between the hours of 6AM and noon, may indicate a clause in the agreement, but doesn't mean it has the right to issue such clause.

Yes, clauses have to be reasonable. Tying related components together has been tested and shown to be perfectly legal. Also Judge Allsup has already argued that Apple is entitled to sell their products in any way they seem fit,

There are many limitations in those agreements, many are so ridiculous that nobody challenges them. If Apple wants to go after end-users, then good luck. But if they are having trouble going after Psystar, how do you think it will fair with us? 99.99999999% of people click OK and don't read agreements.

Bryan

It doesn't matter. you as en end user have the expectation that you need to read licenses. Businesses have an even greater expectation.

 

[Mal]

Nobody is asking Apple to start putting more work into making OS X work with PCs. The fact is that right now Apple is actively putting work into NOT making it work with PCs.

All we ask is that Apple stops doing that. The PC is an open platform, Apple chose to start using it when they switched to Intel processors, this is no longer _their_ hardware, it's just their configuration of standards. They have no right to lock their software to an open hardware platform and claim that it is legit because it's their complete product.

Sooner or later Apple will lose this right via court. That will be a painful day for an unprepared Apple. If Apple decided however to stop fighting this today, I don't see anything they could lose.

They can stop putting work into locking up OS X and nobody asks them to put a special effort into making it run on PCs either. Just drop the license crap, let everyone who buys it use it on even their toaster if they get it to run, and everyone will be happy.

Tell me, what makes "The PC" an open platform? What is a PC? Define it please. There is no one singular platform called a PC. There are many different types of PC's, and many of them are not considered to be open in any sense of the word. Dropping the "license crap" would be the end of the business of Apple, and the entire industry would suffer because of it. Instead of Apple changing the way they do business, you need to change the way you think about things. If Apple doesn't defend their right to do business the way they choose, everyone loses (even if they don't own a Mac).

jW

 

[ri0ku]

OMG I got it to work! im not messing either... installation fails right at the end now.. but ignore it and restart it works!!!! omfg its working

 

[genovelle]

because then is not now. Today is an entirely different atmosphere than the early to mid 1990's.

I think it could (and will) succeed in todays tech environment, with the iPhone/iTablet and cloud computing leading the way.

APPLE IS ACTUALLY DOING BETTER EVERY QUARTER WHILE OTHERS ARE LOSING MONEY. EVEN MICROSOFT'S PROFITS ARE WAY DOWN. WHILE APPLE IS DOING GREAT DURING A RECESSION. You know what? maybe you are on to something. They should change their model from what is blowing the doors off of everyone else, to go to what they are doing. Allow increase support cost by a factor of 1000 for all of the different configurations and then maybe increase market share by double. Only instead of making $500-800 on each sale they make 90 - 120. Then allow others to make garbage versions of their products and create an army of dissatisfied customers calling them while the clones actually steal profitable sales from them. I think that makes a lot of sense. Keep in mind that Microsoft makes 90 percent of their money from manufacturer who pre-install windows. Consumers do choose them. They use their threat of the unknown to keep the HPs in line and other times just pay them off to keep others from competing.



The problem with Microsoft is there really is no way to support every configuration, and they know it. Apple is doing it right. Their way of doing things was working from the start, then the fell into the Microsoft trap. Keep in mind Microsoft is a sneaky crafty company and they are always looking to cut your throat. They pushed the whole Idea of clones to Apple first, they didn't bite. And a company who is not as cut throat as MS would not have succeeded with this model. They try to kill competition in any way possible but not by actually making a better product. When Apple follow them they lost their way and almost went under. Now they are back on track and can't be stopped.

Those that want Apple to fail want them to try it again. Thank God Jobs is not that stupid!

 

[twilson]

Ohw yeah, I just bought a puppy from the shelter, they explicitly told me not to breed with it in the future...mwah I do it anyway, because it's mine, I don't care about responsable breeding.

If you try to breed with your dog, I'm sure you'll be arrested as beastiality is illegal

Mac OS X is build for Macintosh Computers only. Eventhough you "own" a product

You own a license, not a product.

When I marry someone, the both of us, and witnesses, sign an agreement and do our vows, in better and in worse, for the future.
Afterwards you don't own your wife and can do with her what ever you want and then break the marriage vows.

Yet if you wife is used with unauthorised "hardware" you'd be pretty pissed off!

 

[ucfgrad93]

Psystar's latest attempt to legitimize theft. It's sad. And soon it'll all come to an end. Just have to wait out the process.

Agreed. Hopefully this process will end soon.

 

[twilson]

While you may own the hardware on the iPhone (subject to ATT subsidy issues), you do not own the software on the iPhone. You do not own OS X. You purchase a license. A license is revocable if the terms of the license are not met. You are right, you are not leasing the software - at no point will a contract run out, at which point you will need to return the software to Apple. A license and lease are not the same.

Let's make this more simple. You want to drive on a public road. So, you buy a car. Congratulations, you are halfway there. In order to operate this car on a public road, you have to get a driver's license. Should you violate any of the terms of the license, you will no longer be permitted to drive on the public road. Now, could you operate the vehicle on a private road without issue? Yes. Could you operate it on a public road without issue? As long as you are not caught, yes. Can you use your Class C license to operate an 18-wheeler? No. The license applies in specific cercumstances. Violation may mean losing what privileges you already have. Keeping you license mean obeying the laws that have been set out to manage the roads. It also means complying with other specific requirements, such as registration and insurance. If you operate the vehicle without the license, there are consequences.

Now do you understand?

Wow, a car-based analogy that works. Although I'm sure people will come up with "the law" and things as some ironic point against this analogy.

 

[4God]

OMG I got it to work! im not messing either... installation fails right at the end now.. but ignore it and restart it works!!!! omfg its working

What are the full specs on the machine you got it working on?
And how does it feel? (responsiveness)

 

[twilson]

I know. It's crazy to think that I'm entitled to use the software I purchase any way I want. I'm so immature!!!

Sadly, you proved his point perfectly, well done.

 

[Thex1138]

They Make Apple Pies...

20 cents each, like on 'The Apprentice' - You're Fired!

 

[sine-nomine]

Apple makes their software to add value to and to distinguish their hardware from that of other vendors like, say, Dell, HP, Toshiba, or Sony. No one has pointed out that Dell, HP, Toshiba, and Sony each do the exact same thing, which anyone who has dealt with something like the HP Wireless Assistant knows very well.

Since Windows already provides a way to set up and manage a wifi connection, it seems fair to say that HP spent their time and resources developing this and other software in an effort to both add value to their machines, and to distinguish them from the offerings of the other vendors. I wonder how HP would feel if Dell started offering the HP Wireless Assistant in place of its own Wireless Utility without its permission.

In fact, I bet Dell could save themselves quite a lot of time, money, and trouble if they simply lifted the entire set of HP services and distributed them on their own computers. They wouldn't have to pay the cost of development of their own services anymore, and I suppose it would be their option on whether they wanted to provide tech support for them. Since everyone these days basically uses the same hardware, it should be just fine for them or anyone else to do that, right?

 

[baryon]

I don't see the point in running OS X on a non-Mac computer, as the entire point of having a Mac is the combination of the hardware and the software. Especially seeing the low quality hardware that Psystar offers. It's kinda like enabling you to put a Porsche engine in a Fiat Polski. There's no point!

 

[forgetaboutpro]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7C144 Safari/528.16)

Ok let me correct myself before someone else does! Duh!

 

[sg.hill]

I expect that some here might argue here that Psystar have gone too far here - but thinking about it, it's just as bad as uTorrent, or Demonoid. They could be used for illicit purposes, but that doesn't mean that the software manufacturer is doing anything wrong.

Dodgy territory though.

Except that uTorrent and other clients perform an important, useful, and completely legal task by spreading open-source software. I always get Ubuntu, openSuSE, and FreeBSD from torrents, and it allows me to give back as well. While torrents can be used for illegal activity, it isn't their sole reason for existence. As far as I can tell, Psystar's EFI doesn't have a purpose other than violating Apple's EULA.

It would surprise me if Apple fights them on this product with anywhere near the effort they've shown on the clones. It's not like they're losing many hardware sales over the people who will buy (or pirate) Rebel EFI. The alternative is for people to do what I did with my desktop: run Windows 7 and openSuSE. I'd much prefer running unsupported Snow Leopard on it.

 

[couto27]

What a bunch of BS with your entitlement speak. Many people love Mac OS X but Apple doesn't have enough offerings to meet everyone's needs. They shouldn't be expected to offer something for everyone, but if they opened up the Mac OS to other hardware then Apple's market share would skyrocket and could very possibly overtake Windows someday. That is my hope -- to someday see the Mac OS have majority market share. I seriously doubt this will ever happen under Steve Jobs though unless Apple looses the case with Psystar.

I think what is funny about all of this is someday Steve Jobs will be gone and someone else will come in and open it all up again. Then all of this money spent on the legal stuff will have been futile and the money wasted. Apple could be making a lot of extra money if they allowed OEM sales of Mac OS X. Even Dell has said they would offer it if it becomes available.



I don't know anyone who is only running Mac OS X on a PC. Everyone is dual booting so they can still play games under Windows.

when do you and some other idiots dont understand, that APPLE DOESN´T WANT THEIR OSX OPPENED.
i´m totally agree with that, dont you see windows exemple , huge problems ,virus trojans,
apple doesnt´t need 90% of the open market.

i dont want apple with 90% of the open market if third party software and low specs hardware doesnt make the osx run well .
me and some millions prefer to be only 10% of the market and run the osx WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS. with nice hardware specs.
apple is creating a enjoyable experience using a mac.
to the users that, dont have money to buy a original HARDWARE FROM APPLE STORE, dont have ,money for buying a simple $0.99 APP, SHOULNT´T HAVE A IPHONE OR A MAC LAPTOP .
apple is nothing giving what you except???? , too expensive????please go to the windows stores, you being there ??? not satisfied on what the competition offer ????? you still whant the mac????? go to work lazy bastard like i do everyday......


i cannot affort on the day of the release , but save for 6 months and buy one when is possible ,AND I´M HAPPY WITH IT.

 

[ri0ku]

What are the full specs on the machine you got it working on?
And how does it feel? (responsiveness)

right it boots and its VERY responsive.. just like a real mac its very fast and smooth...only problem at the moment is... i can only boot into the external HDD i installed it on if the rebel efi disc is in my drive... (im not sure if its because iv used the trial or not)

another thing.. there program that finds all your drivers etc.. only works if you have an account with them and bought it... so i need to find my graphics drivers for full support on my own... im using it on my spare old pc (with a crappy graphcis card due to the one that used to be in it breaking)

Mobo = asrock g43 twins HD
2gb ddr2 cosair 800mhz ram
ati 1650 pro (i know cringie....)
it works fine though... omg its actualy working very weird

 

[betaboy78]

OMG I got it to work! im not messing either... installation fails right at the end now.. but ignore it and restart it works!!!! omfg its working

Any chance you can take a pic of your setup and post it so we can see? I am very intrigued.

Thanks!

 

[wackymacky]

Wouldn't Apple be able to create a patch/update that would see the machine is operating this software stop the OS from running?

After all it's in the user agreement that you will not run it on a PC so I don't think you could demand money back for it not working on a PC.

 

[ri0ku]

guys it boots up amazingly fast... less than 20 seconds on my set up (and its an older spare pc)

Another thing.. like i said it wont boot from the external HDD i installed it on when i select usb from the bios boot up... which i think is because there is no bootloader... but if the rebel efi disc is in the bootloader comes up allowing me to select the external hdd and it boots fine! i have no idea how to add a boot loader on the usb hdd now that snow leopard is installed on it :S