Samsung Debuts Galaxy S10 and S10+, Along With Premium S10 5G and Lower-Cost S10e

[nviz22]

I have the exact same sentiment. I don’t want to limit myself to only the Apple ecosystem when there are other devices which can do more.
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Well the S10e is a bit different to the Xr. It’s the smallest out of the 3 models, it has an Oled display and it has a dual camera. The pricing isn’t the same in the UK. The S10 plus starts at £899 for 128GB where as the max starts at £1,099.

Definitely good to hear. I also want Apple to be viable to have competition. Their laziness and increased pricing has been a market detriment. Samsung is pushing the $750 market further at least.

 

[Shanghaichica]

ehh, i'm not sure i'd say it's worth $1000 either. I Think Samsung is getting a little too pushy as well with prices. They think if Apple can, they can.

However. This is where the "BUt ApPle MakEs thE MoST ProFIT" comes back to bite those people who say this.

Samsung puts more STUFF into their phones. It's one of their strengths (and often weakness). The S series since day one has been all about "we give you every options under the sun, even if they're not great options, or rarely used options, they're their if you want them".

this costs Samsung more to do. more RAM. more storage, more screen, more port,s more features, more software, MORE costs Samsung More to produce, which lowers their profits and margins.

SO yeah, buying a Samsung definitely tends to get you more value for the dollar at those price points.. But I'm still not convinced those price points are necessary, even for Samsung.

There were some fantastic offerings in 2018 that were probably 90% of the quality and featureset of Samsung's S9, but were 200-300 cheaper.

There's a reason why these companies are eating Samsung's lunch overall for sales volume. And Apples. They keep pushing pricing up but don't seem to really provide enough product differentiation for those prices

Samsung have been really good with prices in the U.K., the entry model Note 8, Note 9 and S10 + have stayed the same price year over year. So virtually no price increases for the past 3 years.
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Definitely good to hear. I also want Apple to be viable to have competition. Their laziness and increased pricing has been a market detriment. Samsung is pushing the $750 market further at least.

Exactly at least you feel as though you’re getting something for your money when you buy a Samsung phone.

 

[I7guy]

..
Samsung puts more STUFF into their phones. It's one of their strengths (and often weakness). The S series since day one has been all about "we give you every options under the sun, even if they're not great options, or rarely used options, they're their if you want them"...

And other android vendors include a lot of stuff for 50% of the price, which IMO, is why Samsung premium model sales have suffered over the years.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

Samsung have been really good with prices in the U.K., the entry model Note 8, Note 9 and S10 + have stayed the same price year over year. So virtually no price increases for the past 3 years.
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Exactly at least you feel as though you’re getting something for your money when you buy a Samsung phone.

And although the S10 is $999 in US, its £799 in UK.
Whereas the Xs is $999 in US, and £999 in UK.
S10 also has base storage of 128GB and includes fast charger. Apple charges £69 to add fast charging in UK.

 

[Shanghaichica]

And although the S10 is $999 in US, its £799 in UK.
Whereas the Xs is $999 in US, and £999 in UK.
S10 also has base storage of 128GB and includes fast charger. Apple charges £69 to add fast charging in UK.

And you can expand your memory up to 512GB so for most people they won't need more than 128Gb.

 

[Abazigal]

ehh, i'm not sure i'd say it's worth $1000 either. I Think Samsung is getting a little too pushy as well with prices. They think if Apple can, they can.

However. This is where the "BUt ApPle MakEs thE MoST ProFIT" comes back to bite those people who say this.

Samsung puts more STUFF into their phones. It's one of their strengths (and often weakness). The S series since day one has been all about "we give you every options under the sun, even if they're not great options, or rarely used options, they're their if you want them".

this costs Samsung more to do. more RAM. more storage, more screen, more port,s more features, more software, MORE costs Samsung More to produce, which lowers their profits and margins.

SO yeah, buying a Samsung definitely tends to get you more value for the dollar at those price points.. But I'm still not convinced those price points are necessary, even for Samsung.

There were some fantastic offerings in 2018 that were probably 90% of the quality and featureset of Samsung's S9, but were 200-300 cheaper.

There's a reason why these companies are eating Samsung's lunch overall for sales volume. And Apples. They keep pushing pricing up but don't seem to really provide enough product differentiation for those prices

Which always beg the question - are all those hardware specs really necessary, or is it just there to look impressive on a spec sheet so as to attract more buyers, and serve as an excuse to inflate the price?

We are now seeing phones with 8gb and 10gb of ram. Do phones really need that much ram? I remember reading reports of some android phones aggressively quitting apps in the background, meaning that the extra ram serves no real purpose at all. It’s there purely for show.

I also disagree that offering more options necessary costs more, especially if you are just throwing them out there, with seemingly little effort spent on refining them and actually making them work.

People don't seem to realize that simplicity is far harder than complexity. It's easy to add in a million buttons, toggles, switches, and features. What's hard is doing that in a dead-simple manner that is logical, coherent, and easy to use.

To use one signature example, it’s easy to just take whatever fingerprint sensing or iris-scanning solution is on the market and just shove it into your device and call it a day. What’s harder to do is building an entire integrated solution around it, from the processor being optimised for it, to a secure enclave to further protect your data, to making it such that your notifcations only appear on your lockscreen when you unlock your phone via Face ID.

Would having just 1 great method of unlocking your device (or 2, if you include passcode) be preferable to having 4-5 which don’t work as well?

That's why so many techies continue to be baffled by Apple's success. People with an engineering mindset don't understand design, and so when they see Apple's incredible success, they just can't wrap their brains around the fact that it's good design that leads to this success. So instead, they convince themselves that Apple only makes money because they're a cult that brainwashes millions of people through product marketing.

Back to my original point - are people really getting more of what they want with a S10 device though all these extra hardware, or are these features just gimmicks and customers end up being saddled with more issues that they need to contend with?

I mean - using a phone to wirelessly-charge another smartphone. Seriously?!?

 

[torana355]

Even Pro Apple reviewers are giving the s10 a thumbs up. Almost all the videos I've watched have said the cut out is a much better implementation of a bezeless display compared to the notch. Also says the fps is fast!!

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

This S10 range release has certainly got certain people hyper

 

[Shanghaichica]

This S10 range release has certainly got certain people hyper

But he’s everything Apple pro so he can’t switch.

 

[Khedron]

Which always beg the question - are all those hardware specs really necessary, or is it just there to look impressive on a spec sheet so as to attract more buyers, and serve as an excuse to inflate the price?

We are now seeing phones with 8gb and 10gb of ram. Do phones really need that much ram? I remember reading reports of some android phones aggressively quitting apps in the background, meaning that the extra ram serves no real purpose at all. It’s there purely for show.

I also disagree that offering more options necessary costs more, especially if you are just throwing them out there, with seemingly little effort spent on refining them and actually making them work.

People don't seem to realize that simplicity is far harder than complexity. It's easy to add in a million buttons, toggles, switches, and features. What's hard is doing that in a dead-simple manner that is logical, coherent, and easy to use.

To use one signature example, it’s easy to just take whatever fingerprint sensing or iris-scanning solution is on the market and just shove it into your device and call it a day. What’s harder to do is building an entire integrated solution around it, from the processor being optimised for it, to a secure enclave to further protect your data, to making it such that your notifcations only appear on your lockscreen when you unlock your phone via Face ID.

Would having just 1 great method of unlocking your device (or 2, if you include passcode) be preferable to having 4-5 which don’t work as well?

That's why so many techies continue to be baffled by Apple's success. People with an engineering mindset don't understand design, and so when they see Apple's incredible success, they just can't wrap their brains around the fact that it's good design that leads to this success. So instead, they convince themselves that Apple only makes money because they're a cult that brainwashes millions of people through product marketing.

Back to my original point - are people really getting more of what they want with a S10 device though all these extra hardware, or are these features just gimmicks and customers end up being saddled with more issues that they need to contend with?

I mean - using a phone to wirelessly-charge another smartphone. Seriously?!?

Depends on your definition of simplicity though. Touch ID was a great example of Apple design and simplicity. Then Apple decided to move to Face ID as a way of reducing the bezels.

IMO the correct, simple solution is the seamless fingerprint scanner on the back of the OnePlus 6 but instead Apple did this...

Throw a load of expensive sensors and camera into the front of the phone, increasing the price by a couple of hundred dollars over the Touch ID phones.

Put a massive notch into the display.

Put their design idea of symmetrical bezels above all else (even though they already broke that idea with the notch) and made the forehead and chin the same size. Then realise that actual use is not symmetrical (you typically approach a phone from below both when you're sweeping up from the bottom or down from the top) and implement a digital chin; wasted space at the bottom of every screen that must be left blank because it can't easily be clicked on.

Design a range of cases that also take this design failure into account by having cut-outs at the bottom edge (better hope your phone doesn't fall straight down if you drop it).

None of this is simple or elegant.

BTW if you hate Samsung's reverse wireless charging how do you feel about it being in the next iPhone? Or will it be sufficiently "simple" by then?

 

[Abazigal]

At Apple product events, the takeaways often end up being related more to how Apple is setting the stage for the future. Certain announcements and features make much more sense when thinking about what Apple will likely unveil the following year.

Face ID is one of those things which falls into this equation. Its current implementation seems way over-engineered, but this makes sense when you consider AR glasses and how users will interact with it via Siri and hand gestures (via the Kinect sensor in Face ID).

Depends on your definition of simplicity though. Touch ID was a great example of Apple design and simplicity. Then Apple decided to move to Face ID as a way of reducing the bezels.

IMO the correct, simple solution is the seamless fingerprint scanner on the back of the OnePlus 6 but instead Apple did this...

Of all the possible places where a fingerprint sensor could be, the back of the phone is probably the most awkward. I give Samsung credit for managing to integrate it into the front display in the very least.

Throw a load of expensive sensors and camera into the front of the phone, increasing the price by a couple of hundred dollars over the Touch ID phones.

Put a massive notch into the display.

See my comments above as to why I think Apple is going all-in with Face ID.

Put their design idea of symmetrical bezels above all else (even though they already broke that idea with the notch) and made the forehead and chin the same size. Then realise that actual use is not symmetrical (you typically approach a phone from below both when you're sweeping up from the bottom or down from the top) and implement a digital chin; wasted space at the bottom of every screen that must be left blank because it can't easily be clicked on.

Design a range of cases that also take this design failure into account by having cut-outs at the bottom edge (better hope your phone doesn't fall straight down if you drop it).

None of this is simple or elegant.

Fair enough points.

My take is that Apple saw where the market was headed (minimal bezels), and chose to bet on Face ID over Touch ID. This ended up requiring them to rethink just about every aspect of the iPhone.

I feel that while the notch isn’t perfect, it doesn't end up jeopardizing the device's integrity. There’s a certain honesty in how the symmetrical bezels just wrap around it. Yes, other smartphones might have thinner bezels, but the differing thickness feels kinda jarring, if you get what I mean.

BTW if you hate Samsung's reverse wireless charging how do you feel about it being in the next iPhone? Or will it be sufficiently "simple" by then?

It’s more that I am struggling to see a viable use case for it.

My Apple Watch ends the day at over 50% and I charge it every night. My Airpods also last several days and I am pretty judicious in keeping it charged as well. Is Apple envisioning a scenario where my Airpods and Apple Watch will he regularly running out of juice in the middle of the day? Do I really want to be charging my friend’s iPhone with my own when it’s likely going to be a slow process whereby none of us can access our devices (might make sense over dinner?), and when I am already trying to conserve my own battery usage as well?

That said, Apple’s implementation will likely be like how the Apple Pencil charges when you place it on top of the iPad. Automatically on its own without you having to toggle anything on or off.

I might see myself using it once in a blue moon in the rare occasion I forget to charge Airpods, I suppose, but it still feels like a gimmick I don’t see myself utilising much, whichever side does it.

 

[kazmac]

I almost did a trade in for the s10e earlier today, but I’ll wait for sales and to try them in hand.

 

[Khedron]

At Apple product events, the takeaways often end up being related more to how Apple is setting the stage for the future. Certain announcements and features make much more sense when thinking about what Apple will likely unveil the following year.

Face ID is one of those things which falls into this equation. Its current implementation seems way over-engineered, but this makes sense when you consider AR glasses and how users will interact with it via Siri and hand gestures (via the Kinect sensor in Face ID).



Of all the possible places where a fingerprint sensor could be, the back of the phone is probably the most awkward. I give Samsung credit for managing to integrate it into the front display in the very least.



See my comments above as to why I think Apple is going all-in with Face ID.



Fair enough points.

My take is that Apple saw where the market was headed (minimal bezels), and chose to bet on Face ID over Touch ID. This ended up requiring them to rethink just about every aspect of the iPhone.

I feel that while the notch isn’t perfect, it doesn't end up jeopardizing the device's integrity. There’s a certain honesty in how the symmetrical bezels just wrap around it. Yes, other smartphones might have thinner bezels, but the differing thickness feels kinda jarring, if you get what I mean.



It’s more that I am struggling to see a viable use case for it.

My Apple Watch ends the day at over 50% and I charge it every night. My Airpods also last several days and I am pretty judicious in keeping it charged as well. Is Apple envisioning a scenario where my Airpods and Apple Watch will he regularly running out of juice in the middle of the day? Do I really want to be charging my friend’s iPhone with my own when it’s likely going to be a slow process whereby none of us can access our devices (might make sense over dinner?), and when I am already trying to conserve my own battery usage as well?

That said, Apple’s implementation will likely be like how the Apple Pencil charges when you place it on top of the iPad. Automatically on its own without you having to toggle anything on or off.

I might see myself using it once in a blue moon in the rare occasion I forget to charge Airpods, I suppose, but it still feels like a gimmick I don’t see myself utilising much, whichever side does it.

The rear fingerprint sensor is perfectly placed that your finger automatically goes there when you hold the phone. It's the most convenient place possible for taking a phone out of your pocket and unlocking it before you even see it. Hopefully the in-screen fingerprint sensor quickly becomes natural without looking.

Reverse wireless charging means you only need a single charger when travelling. No need to take you watch charger, just plug your phone into the power supply and use that to wirelessly charge your watch.

It also makes a bit more sense for Samsung phones with 3400/4100 mAh batteries with more to spare than iPhones with 2658/3174 mAh.

Apple's solution will not be automatic unless they use their other design choice of simplicity through banning options. If they permit their users to do phone to phone transfer then they must also have a way of indicating which phone transmits to which.

More generally, other manufacturers are happy for users to have options, even if it's a minority use case like headphone jacks. Tim would gladly strip an option if it saved a few cents and Apple won't allow users to access their own NFC or Bluetooth chips because they want to lock them down to Apple Pay and Apple Music/AirPlay services only.

 

[Abazigal]

The rear fingerprint sensor is perfectly placed that your finger automatically goes there when you hold the phone. It's the most convenient place possible for taking a phone out of your pocket and unlocking it before you even see it. Hopefully the in-screen fingerprint sensor quickly becomes natural without looking.

Assuming you don't end up touching and smudging your camera lens in the process.

Reverse wireless charging means you only need a single charger when travelling. No need to take you watch charger, just plug your phone into the power supply and use that to wirelessly charge your watch.

Good point there. I rarely travel, so I guess that use case is lost on me.

It also makes a bit more sense for Samsung phones with 3400/4100 mAh batteries with more to spare than iPhones with 2658/3174 mAh.

Valid point as well. I forgot how big android phone batteries can get.

Apple's solution will not be automatic unless they use their other design choice of simplicity through banning options. If they permit their users to do phone to phone transfer then they must also have a way of indicating which phone transmits to which.

Which is why I feel there won't be iphone to iPhone transfer. With AirPods and Apple Watch at least, it's pretty straightforward (you will likely be using your phone to charge the other devices rather than the other way round).

More generally, other manufacturers are happy for users to have options, even if it's a minority use case like headphone jacks. Tim would gladly strip an option if it saved a few cents and Apple won't allow users to access their own NFC or Bluetooth chips because they want to lock them down to Apple Pay and Apple Music/AirPlay services only.

I don't think it's to cut down on component costs (though that could be a bonus). Instead, it all goes back to Apple's design-led philosophy about minimalism and purity in hardware design. From Apple's perspective, perfect products are made by cutting out everything not absolutely required in the design, with nothing standing in between the user and the device.

Apple products have never been about offering the most features or being the most useful, but about distilling the purest mixture of form and function possible.

So when Apple doesn't offer removable storage or swappable batteries and excises the headphone jack, it all goes back to their philosophy of not sacrificing the integrity and beauty of the phone by building in support for these features. This is what makes a product good in Apple's eyes - thin, light, simple. Not necessarily a huge feature list.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

IMO the correct, simple solution is the seamless fingerprint scanner on the back of the OnePlus 6 but instead Apple did this...

The rear location for a fingerprint sensor is a perfect place. I had a Moto Play phone that had an indentation on the rear that my forefinger just naturally went into. However,the camera needs to be located away from this spot.
Samsung weren't able to get a location that was far enough away from the camera.

 

[PaladinGuy]

What if Apple's next iPhone comes with 256 GB standard?

That will not happen anytime soon. Apple has ALWAYS gauged prices for storage sizes and RAM. It killed me when I got my new MacBook Air to have to pay over $1300 to get the 256gb model. I also felt like 128gb was enough storage for my previous iPhones, but the iPhone X forced me to go up to 256gb... It’s just part of how they up-sell people.

 

[0989382]

Even having an LCD on any flagship is rather embarrassing in 2019 though in fairness

Least other flagship iPhones have OLED

No it’s not... You forget OLED has it’s drawbacks too. And I bet you complain about the price, yet OLED drives it.

You can bury your head in the sand all you wish... Apple created something extra-ordinary and groundbreaking a decade ago but now are content refining the ecosystem experience with accessories and services.
Vast majority would not agree that 326ppi LCD screen in 2018 is innovation.
Bionic processor performance is exceptional but ultimately overkill for a smartphone.
Let's not even talk about Macbook Pro quality control.

Night mode photography from Google or Galaxy Fold is what you'd call innovation in the smartphone space

You guys are burying your head in your own crevasse ... we get your point but it’s getting tiring now reading the hate. Go get an android phone and windows PC if they’re so great.

Overkill for a smartphone? Do you have any idea about the VR and AR goals for the future? And what that’ll take... please.

Google and Galaxy phones refer to their servers to do the computer work.. yeah real innovative.

 

[I7guy]

Assuming you don't end up touching and smudging your camera lens in the process.



Good point there. I rarely travel, so I guess that use case is lost on me.



Valid point as well. I forgot how big android phone batteries can get.



Which is why I feel there won't be iphone to iPhone transfer. With AirPods and Apple Watch at least, it's pretty straightforward (you will likely be using your phone to charge the other devices rather than the other way round).



I don't think it's to cut down on component costs (though that could be a bonus). Instead, it all goes back to Apple's design-led philosophy about minimalism and purity in hardware design. From Apple's perspective, perfect products are made by cutting out everything not absolutely required in the design, with nothing standing in between the user and the device.

Apple products have never been about offering the most features or being the most useful, but about distilling the purest mixture of form and function possible.

So when Apple doesn't offer removable storage or swappable batteries and excises the headphone jack, it all goes back to their philosophy of not sacrificing the integrity and beauty of the phone by building in support for these features. This is what makes a product good in Apple's eyes - thin, light, simple. Not necessarily a huge feature list.

The thing about reverse wireless charging, even if Apple includes a similar feature I would carry a separate charger when traveling. Why use a phone battery lifetime cycles to charge another accessory when a small separate charger will do nicely? Wireless charging is at best inefficient.

 

[torana355]

The thing about reverse wireless charging, even if Apple includes a similar feature I would carry a separate charger when traveling. Why use a phone battery lifetime cycles to charge another accessory when a small separate charger will do nicely? Wireless charging is at best inefficient.

I think it's more to get out of a jam if you forget to charge your headphones. At a pinch you can use your phone to charge them up. Funny thing is if Apple were the first to bring out this feature i could bet my life your enthusiasm would be reversed.

 

[I7guy]

I think it's more to get out of a jam if you forget to charge your headphones. At a pinch you can use your phone to charge them up. Funny thing is if Apple were the first to bring out this feature i could bet my life your enthusiasm would be reversed.

I already noted: “even if Apple includes a similar feature”...which is a rumor on the front page. I was only commenting on the “battery lifetime cycles” aspect of it. Not the functionality aspect of it.

 

[mi7chy]

We are now seeing phones with 8gb and 10gb of ram. Do phones really need that much ram? I remember reading reports of some android phones aggressively quitting apps in the background, meaning that the extra ram serves no real purpose at all. It’s there purely for show.

Samsung has DeX and Linux desktop mode support so more ram is certainly beneficial plus it's future proofing. iPhone 6 wouldn't suffer from such early obsolescence if Apple had put more than 1GB in it. Shame Apple went through four generations of iPhones (5, 5C, 5S and 6) with the same amount of DRAM to milk the profit. How did it benefit you as a consumer?

 

[nviz22]

I already noted: “even if Apple includes a similar feature”...which is a rumor on the front page. I was only commenting on the “battery lifetime cycles” aspect of it. Not the functionality aspect of it.

It's newer technology, so how much wear and tear will reverse wireless charging have on a charge cycle w/ Galaxy Buds? I haven't seen tests yet to show day to day results. Do you have any results to share? Or are you just worried about the big picture? I would use a standard charging procedure rather than rely on my phone all the time to charge AirPods, Galaxy Buds, or anything with Qi charging within Samsung's spec standards. I think you're a bit too worried about a problem that won't really be a huge factor to general consumers.

 

[I7guy]

It's newer technology, so how much wear and tear will reverse wireless charging have on a charge cycle w/ Galaxy Buds? I haven't seen tests yet to show day to day results. Do you have any results to share? Or are you just worried about the big picture? I would use a standard charging procedure rather than rely on my phone all the time to charge AirPods, Galaxy Buds, or anything with Qi charging within Samsung's spec standards. I think you're a bit too worried about a problem that won't really be a huge factor to general consumers.

Worried, I'm not. Curious, I am about the drain on the battery from reverse charging. If the reverse charging supports 4.5 watts, the battery will have to put out more then 4.5 due to inefficiency of wireless charging.

 

[nviz22]

Worried, I'm not. Curious, I am about the drain on the battery from reverse charging. If the reverse charging supports 4.5 watts, the battery will have to put out more then 4.5 due to inefficiency of wireless charging.

Would you use the feature if an iPhone can do it efficiently with your AirPods?

 

[I7guy]

Would you use the feature if an iPhone can do it efficiently with your AirPods?

Wireless charging by nature is inefficient. Would I use it? In all of the time I had my iphone I always have some charging method with me and have never run out of juice, so I don't know if I would use that particular feature.