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The blackberry cautionary tale should be applied to every company and not cherry picking Apple. If it happened to Lehman bros, blackberry could happen to any company. The great debate is one person's seeing moving forward is another's seeing complacency. That's when you look at the company finances.

even finances can be deceiving.

economies and markets can have lag before they impact a company. Same with user sentiment. (I was absolutely a Blackberry fanboy and rode that ride to collapse, i know that damn well).

Blackberry, while not at the same scale, showed many of the same financial milestones as Apple is now, post, 2007.

Largest sales volume they had, and largest smartphone sales.
very large profits being fed into large cash reserves (they had an estimated 8-10billion in cash reserves at their height, and what they lived off of till they turned their business back to profitability)
and a lot of user sentiment that they were the best in the business.

So even company finances can be deceiving.

That's the problem with Disruptive tech. Nobody is safe from it. it can topple a giant in the industry. even the most profitable one of the time.

in tech, you just can never be complacent. you must always be looking for something new.
 
Do something revolutionary? Check.

Develop a cult following? Check.

Put untold billions in the bank selling that same idea, or evolutionary versions of it, for a decade? Check.

Watch hungry and well-financed competitors start nipping at your heels? Check.

FAIL TO COME UP WITH THE NEXT REVOLUTION? Check.

Count on all users to be loyal to your now ten-year-old idea forever? Check.

Count on nobody ever copying your idea in a compelling way? Check.

Lay around in your money pile hoping that nobody invents the next revolution? Check.

Aside from paralleling Blackberry in all of those ways, they are totally different.

Heck, Blackberry massively outdid Apple in marketshare. Apple has never had and probably never will have as much marketshare as Blackberry.

Not sure why you think they're so different.


tumblr_ne2xgj19sh1rnhnqfo1_500.gif


You would think after 2008 people would realize that no company is too big to fail
 
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Blackberry's collapse was one of their own doing and they deserved it the way they treated the market they had.

Spent the first year "we don't have to worry about Apple, we're #1 so obviously people like us better"
Spent the next year "ok, people are starting to buy that other device, lets make a copy" and released cheap and bad copies (Storm and Storm 2)

then finally came to their senses that they needed to design something new and do it right, but went about it like morons. They decided to tell all their customers "We're building the best new phone! it'll be out in 2 years, in the meantime, buy these devices that will be replaced in 2 years and not be compatible at all!".

what do you think happened? Those of us who were in Blackberry eco-system noped out. I'm not spending $500 on a device today that will completely lose all support app development and forward momentum just ot have to rebuy a device and all apps all over again in 2 year?.

this exodus from Blackberry was it's undoing. it took 2 new CEO's before they finally got someone who understood business and kept blackberry alive.

I think one of the fears with Apple right now is that we see this similar "We're #1, so we're obviously the best" mentality from Apple's leadership.

and while most of the products Apple is releasing are great products. Excellent quality, and offered fantastic services. There's always the fear that complacency could lead to someone else coming up with some new disruptive tech that dethrones Apple. (honestly, not sure why people are afraid of this, economics isn't a zero sum game, not being #1 doesn't mean you're bad. you can have legit competition)

while there's no way to say that Apple WILL repeat blackberries mistake, ignoring history is often the best way of repeating it.



yes, they very much did. and did some things extremely well, long before anyone else did. sure, their devices had issues (like needing daily battery pulls) due to a buggy OS. But we're talking early EARLY smartphone days here, the bugs were worth it compared to the feature phones blackberry was replacing.

but the Blackberry devices had an "App store". though it was in the day when you needed to download and have your phone plugged into your computer, similar to early iTunes requirements. THey did eventually also get a music service (streaming services really didn't exist back then either).

They had some of the earliest "Digital assistant" softwares available. Almost all Blackberry devices had a physical "action" button. And you could often download a voice control app and bind it to it. this was back before "machine learning" and "AI", so while the functionality was limited to remote controlling music, or sending emails, it was absolutely early day voice assistant.

Don't know about mobile payments. NFC hadn't been invented yet (or at least available), the popularity of mobile payments only came about after BBRY's demise, so bringing this into the conversation is disingenuous. "HOW DARE THEY NOT HAVE TECH THAT WASN'T INVENTED YET!"

And shortly after the iPad's release, Blackberry did have it's own lineup of Tablets that integrated with their phones. Blackberry PLaybook (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_PlayBook). While it was a whopping commercial failure, the device itself was actually really good. I still have mine and it STILL runs very well (just has nothing new to run). But it integrated very well with Blackberry services and ecosystem, even featuring receiving your phones notifications on the tablet, and direct access to your phones email, sms and BBM so that your phone and tablet always had the same up to date data and notifications.

and it integrated fantastically with the business ecosystem through their robust blackberry back end cloud based network infrastructure where all communications went through BBS allowing direct connection to exchange servers and other messaging services, very very much like what everyone else is doing today. You have to remember, Blackberry basically invented push notification

TL:DR versionsof all this:
don't make excuses to ignore history. while all might not be equal, ignoring history often means you miss lessons it has to teach. And judging from your comments about Blackberry that were factually wrong, it shows you don't understand the history itself.

Blackberry should absolutely be a cautionary tale to every single business who thinks themselves #1. there is always someone nipping at your heals. Being number 1 today doesn't guarantee number 1 tomorrow. And disruptive tech can always topple even the biggest giants who are caught unaware.
[doublepost=1491053887][/doublepost]

RIP Blackberry. I know, I know, they're still technically around, but, they're a husk of what they were a decade ago

My point is - Apple has a fairly sticky ecosystem which helps inures it against the competition. Blackberrry had nothing. People say Apple is being arrogant and repeating the mistakes Blackberry made in the past. I feel that Apple is still innovating and forging ahead in new industries.

I am not saying that Apple is perfect and can never fail. I am just tired of people pouncing on every small reason as evidence that Apple is somehow losing the plot. People have been claiming that Apple is doomed since time immemorial, and have been proven wrong every time. How many "iPhone killers" now litter the graveyard?

If they want me to believe that they know why Apple will fail, then at least demonstrate that they understand how Apple grew, and how it grew to become so huge and so successful. They don't. And until they do, I will continue to treat everything they say with the greatest of scepticism.
 
even finances can be deceiving.

economies and markets can have lag before they impact a company. Same with user sentiment. (I was absolutely a Blackberry fanboy and rode that ride to collapse, i know that damn well).

Blackberry, while not at the same scale, showed many of the same financial milestones as Apple is now, post, 2007.

Largest sales volume they had, and largest smartphone sales.
very large profits being fed into large cash reserves (they had an estimated 8-10billion in cash reserves at their height, and what they lived off of till they turned their business back to profitability)
and a lot of user sentiment that they were the best in the business.

So even company finances can be deceiving.

That's the problem with Disruptive tech. Nobody is safe from it. it can topple a giant in the industry. even the most profitable one of the time.

in tech, you just can never be complacent. you must always be looking for something new.
I think we agree, too big too fail is a myth. Apple, Samsung, Microsoft are all in that same too big too fail myth. That's the only point: companies can fail in ways that Internet forum posters can't always see coming, but 20/20 hindsight...
 
My point is - Apple has a fairly sticky ecosystem which helps inures it against the competition. Blackberrry had nothing. People say Apple is being arrogant and repeating the mistakes Blackberry made in the past. I feel that Apple is still innovating and forging ahead in new industries.

I am not saying that Apple is perfect and can never fail. I am just tired of people pouncing on every small reason as evidence that Apple is somehow losing the plot. People have been claiming that Apple is doomed since time immemorial, and have been proven wrong every time. How many "iPhone killers" now litter the graveyard?

If they want me to believe that they know why Apple will fail, then at least demonstrate that they understand how Apple grew, and how it grew to become so huge and so successful. They don't. And until they do, I will continue to treat everything they say with the greatest of scepticism.

I literally just went on a bloody marathon typing rant showing you how absolutely wrong you are in this (bolded part), and you just completely ignored it to repeat the same drivel.

why at this point is it worth anyone having a conversation with you?
 
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I literally just went on a bloody marathon typing rant showing you how absolutely wrong you are in this (bolded part), and you just completely ignored it to repeat the same drivel.

why at this point is it worth anyone having a conversation with you?

The only point of relevance I saw in your reply was a crappy App Store which was both limited and cumbersome to use. Which is nothing at all like the App Store of today where I can seamlessly purchase and install apps directly on my smartphone. It's ridiculous even trying to draw a corollary between the two.

I didn't ignore the points you stated. I just didn't think they were relevant. What passed for an ecosystem in Blackberry's case was weak and practically non-existent. It was nothing compared to what Apple enjoys today.

To date, the argument as to why Apple will fail essentially revolves around "Blackberry failed, so Apple will too". These people could not be more wrong. Mark my words. This is but the start of Apple's ascent. All the way to the top.
 
I literally just went on a bloody marathon typing rant showing you how absolutely wrong you are in this (bolded part), and you just completely ignored it to repeat the same drivel.

why at this point is it worth anyone having a conversation with you?

Exactly. We all learn the hard way.
 
the exynos version is a beast!
View attachment 694491
I am sorry,

It is a very good score, but that is not too impressive. It is one of the newest gen 10nm socs. My iphone 7 plus that was released about 6 moneys ago is at single 3470 and multi 5760, and it has half of the cores.
The a10x could be beast, and surpass it at single and multi core at 14nm.
I suspect the a11 will be around single 4200 and multi 7200.
 
I am sorry,

It is a very good score, but that is not too impressive. It is one of the newest gen 10nm socs. My iphone 7 plus that was released about 6 moneys ago is at single 3470 and multi 5760, and it has half of the cores.
The a10x could be beast, and surpass it at single and multi core at 14nm.
I suspect the a11 will be around single 4200 and multi 7200.

you can't really compare iOS Geekbench to Android Geekbench.tgey actually just updated the benchmark the other day on Android to improve scores.geekbench 3 scores about 300-400 points higher and alot of people called Geekbench out.

here is the update that was just released the other day from the app store.the app is not optimized to run correctly on Android and it's not even supporting the gs8 dual channel memory bandwidth.its saying it's only 15gb/second when it's really double that speed.

Screenshot_20170331-143312.png
 
To be honest once you're deeply embedded in the apple ecosystem it would require Apple to really mess it up for most to leave.....me included.....

It's not fun being trapped in an eco system that doesn't evolve and is overpriced. Most of Apple services are Apple only and won't work with others well. This shouldn't be such a big problem if they're ahead or at least on par with the competition, but since they're not and way more expensive it's nothing to brag about. I think this closed eco system is keeping lots of customers out of this trap. The Apple eco system reminds me of Jurassic park. It's ancient with extinct species and to go there you have to dig deep in your wallet.[/QUOTE]
[doublepost=1491070567][/doublepost]
My point is - Apple has a fairly sticky ecosystem which helps inures it against the competition. Blackberrry had nothing. People say Apple is being arrogant and repeating the mistakes Blackberry made in the past. I feel that Apple is still innovating and forging ahead in new industries.

I am not saying that Apple is perfect and can never fail. I am just tired of people pouncing on every small reason as evidence that Apple is somehow losing the plot. People have been claiming that Apple is doomed since time immemorial, and have been proven wrong every time. How many "iPhone killers" now litter the graveyard?

If they want me to believe that they know why Apple will fail, then at least demonstrate that they understand how Apple grew, and how it grew to become so huge and so successful. They don't. And until they do, I will continue to treat everything they say with the greatest of scepticism.
As I said before: apple's eco system is nothing to brag about because it's a trap. It cost you a lot to get in and even more to get out. It's not something you stay in voluntarily because today it's overpriced, way beyound in what competitors have to offer and most work with Apple gear only something what's making it useless when 90% of the world is using different.
 
Thanks for the reply.
I could've used without the barbs, but hey... to each their own.
The VDI work you are doing sounds fun. Let's speak as to the topic of these actual posts though.
Here, I'll play the part of ANY one of the other posters:
"WHAT??? You are doing some advanced desktop virtualization? How is that possible? This is a BRAND new product from Samsung, and it is what's paving the way! How could you claim to be doing anything outside of that?? How are your users getting work done, if not through the specific products, Galaxy S8 & Dex Dock? Inconceivable!"
So.... I will reiterate: I saw this years ago, when Motorola 1st introduced a dock w/ like the Droid Bionic or whatever it was, this does NOT tread into any new space, and this is not some incredible solution in and of itself.
Apologies for seeming to attack the tech itself; I suppose- that wasn't really my intent. My larger point is- anyone that looks at this simple dock, that does little more than allow one to run Android on a screen & equates it w/ what your enterprise is doing, for example- is off base.
I'm going to go out on a limb & guess that there aren't any plans for sitewide dex rollouts at your enterprise, yeah?

Don't think of it as the end all but the enabling technology. Our VDI is enabling app delivery on nearly any device. We could issue you an iPad, an Android Tablet, Surace, Windows machine, or Mac and you'll still get what you need to do your work. I could see where with a Dex dock (or the HP Elite x3 dock) that we could issue someone a phone and put a dock on their desk with keyboard and monitor and be done with it. Think of it as a terminal like we used to do back in the day.

That's where the power comes in for enterprise users - Instead of a $1k investment for a computer or laptop, another $700 for an iPhone I can just give you a phone and be done with it. With the DeX your phone would charge, you access your corporate apps securely. "Desktops" can be patched in the same window as your servers and you don't have to deal with remote bandwidth issues deploying patches.

I remember the Motorola dock - I don't think the software or hardware was ready at the time. Mobile CPUs were slow and limited RAM and, IIRC it basically scaled Android apps. With today's hardware and software this has a chance to succeed and fill a niche.

This is innovation - something Apple has been missing a lot of lately. I've recently dipped in the non-Apple ecosystem and I have to say Apple has a lot to learn. Win 10 is not bad and the touch/pen laptops are really nice and enable a lot more creativity than the touch bar. Recently picked up an Android phone and 7.1.1, while it has rough edges has a lot of innovation that Apple should be doing. Neither of these is as bad as they were previously and they offer compelling features Apple is to afraid to try or to conceited to admit they are wrong.
 
you can't really compare iOS Geekbench to Android Geekbench.tgey actually just updated the benchmark the other day on Android to improve scores.geekbench 3 scores about 300-400 points higher and alot of people called Geekbench out.

here is the update that was just released the other day from the app store.the app is not optimized to run correctly on Android and it's not even supporting the gs8 dual channel memory bandwidth.its saying it's only 15gb/second when it's really double that speed.

View attachment 694495
Ok,

So with Geekbench 3, you would have had higher scores? Is that what you mean? I don' t understand.
 
For anyone who gets one, enjoy it. I won't bash and I won't buy as Android is not for me.

If tech gives me ease of use, communication and creative software and some Privacy and security, great. That's all I want so I can create and not think about my tech.

Thinking positive that the innovation Apple's competitors have shown over the past year will light a fire under :apple: design division something fierce.
 
@itguy06

Fair enough.
I digress... I suppose I may have been guilty of a "knee jerk" assumption of gimmickry on Samsung's part- condemnation prior to investigation, lol.
I'm willing to concede that this Dex might not be another flop, a lá Samsung Beam smartphone projector, and the like.

Here's hoping that the 2017 iPhone brings some innovations that we both can dig!
 
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It's not fun being trapped in an eco system that doesn't evolve and is overpriced.
On the other hand don't mind paying to have an ecosystem that plays nicely across devices. That has top notch support and longevity that is also easy to use.
[doublepost=1491072084][/doublepost]
Don't think of it as the end all but the enabling technology. Our VDI is enabling app delivery on nearly any device. We could issue you an iPad, an Android Tablet, Surace, Windows machine, or Mac and you'll still get what you need to do your work. I could see where with a Dex dock (or the HP Elite x3 dock) that we could issue someone a phone and put a dock on their desk with keyboard and monitor and be done with it. Think of it as a terminal like we used to do back in the day.

That's where the power comes in for enterprise users - Instead of a $1k investment for a computer or laptop, another $700 for an iPhone I can just give you a phone and be done with it. With the DeX your phone would charge, you access your corporate apps securely. "Desktops" can be patched in the same window as your servers and you don't have to deal with remote bandwidth issues deploying patches.

I remember the Motorola dock - I don't think the software or hardware was ready at the time. Mobile CPUs were slow and limited RAM and, IIRC it basically scaled Android apps. With today's hardware and software this has a chance to succeed and fill a niche.

This is innovation - something Apple has been missing a lot of lately. I've recently dipped in the non-Apple ecosystem and I have to say Apple has a lot to learn. Win 10 is not bad and the touch/pen laptops are really nice and enable a lot more creativity than the touch bar. Recently picked up an Android phone and 7.1.1, while it has rough edges has a lot of innovation that Apple should be doing. Neither of these is as bad as they were previously and they offer compelling features Apple is to afraid to try or to conceited to admit they are wrong.
So rdp is innovation?
 
It's not fun being trapped in an eco system that doesn't evolve and is overpriced. Most of Apple services are Apple only and won't work with others well. This shouldn't be such a big problem if they're ahead or at least on par with the competition, but since they're not and way more expensive it's nothing to brag about. I think this closed eco system is keeping lots of customers out of this trap. The Apple eco system reminds me of Jurassic park. It's ancient with extinct species and to go there you have to dig deep in your wallet.
[doublepost=1491070567][/doublepost]
As I said before: apple's eco system is nothing to brag about because it's a trap. It cost you a lot to get in and even more to get out. It's not something you stay in voluntarily because today it's overpriced, way beyound in what competitors have to offer and most work with Apple gear only something what's making it useless when 90% of the world is using different.[/QUOTE]
You could call it a trap of course.
But i still have Spotify , Netflix , Dropbox, etc so you have freedom of choice. Just not which AppStore you go to. There is just 1 App Store , and i quite like it that way, gives me a more secure feel.
You perceive it as a trap. Most perceive it like a plus.
Your motivations are just not the same as apple users, and it always comes down to this point when discussing ios vs android, samsung vs apple, etc.
You really can' t compare apple with blackberry, no ecosystem, nothing. You think apple is doomed, because they don' t have a curved long screen yet, and that apple users will jump ship because of this???
What you are actually seeing is that google with the pixel and samsung with the s8 are lifting prices to keep up, and apple will have the paper specs gap plugged in a year.
If apple was doomed by competitors it should have happened the last year and a half, with the release of the less innovating, same design 6s/7 models. And it didn' t.....quite the opposite happened with the release of the 7/+.

Sorry, but the only brand that is really in danger of losing out, is samsung. They messed up once with release of the note 7, if they mess up once more , the next 2 to 3 years, they could be in real trouble.
[doublepost=1491072420][/doublepost]
yes my gs7 from last year gets 2300 single score on Geekbench 3
Ok, and what was the multi-score last year?
And what is the multi score now on the s7?
[doublepost=1491072673][/doublepost]
On the other hand don't mind paying to have an ecosystem that plays nicely across devices. That has top notch support and longevity that is also easy to use.
[doublepost=1491072084][/doublepost]
So rdp is innovation?
Yes,

As if i would trust android for a business machine. Never....
Android phone, ok. But a primary android computer for business? Never...
 
I am sorry,

It is a very good score, but that is not too impressive. It is one of the newest gen 10nm socs. My iphone 7 plus that was released about 6 moneys ago is at single 3470 and multi 5760, and it has half of the cores.
The a10x could be beast, and surpass it at single and multi core at 14nm.
I suspect the a11 will be around single 4200 and multi 7200.

You have to compare the things with what's available today. Not compare with what is rumored to come. It's quite an achievement they've come this far and together with better screen and design and reasonable priced, I'm wondering how Apple will counter this... if they're possible to do so at all.
 
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No doubt that they have spent some money, but not a lot relative to revenues or cash flow.

They have a fraction of a trillion dollars as a cash hoard.

Meanwhile, in the marketplace they are swinging at the pitches they keep striking out.

Why they can't seem to win anymore is anyone's guess, but the proof is in the pudding.

They are being destroyed in every market sector and have declined to create or redefine any new ones.

This is a dramatic shift from the Apple of 1997-2011.

You're talking ****.
 
Just saw one of these in person at a Best Buy store. Truly incredible. The display is simply gorgeous and very immersive. I'm really excited to see Apple's take on this. I don't plan on getting a new phone until my iPhone 7 breaks or becomes too slow to use, but it's really cool to see the innovation and technological advancements of these phones. The curved OLED display with minimal bezels really makes the iPhone seem outdated in comparison, even if Apple's processor and cameras are some of the best. The S8 takes photos instantly too, quicker than an iPhone. If I ever went back to Android, I'd want a Samsung if they ran stock Android. They truly have the best hardware for Android phones, but their software ruins it for me. I really hope Apple is able to start putting as beautiful of displays on their iPhones as Samsung is doing with their phones. Really incredible.
 
Just saw one of these in person at a Best Buy store. Truly incredible. The display is simply gorgeous and very immersive. I'm really excited to see Apple's take on this. I don't plan on getting a new phone until my iPhone 7 breaks or becomes too slow to use, but it's really cool to see the innovation and technological advancements of these phones. The curved OLED display with minimal bezels really makes the iPhone seem outdated in comparison, even if Apple's processor and cameras are some of the best. The S8 takes photos instantly too, quicker than an iPhone. If I ever went back to Android, I'd want a Samsung if they ran stock Android. They truly have the best hardware for Android phones, but their software ruins it for me. I really hope Apple is able to start putting as beautiful of displays on their iPhones as Samsung is doing with their phones. Really incredible.
This excitement I'm missing on Apple's products for at least the last four years. I don't need to get wowed each year by Apple but they seem stagnant for too long.
 
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