No, the only people who feel that way are the non-Apple techie types. I doubt they constitute "most people." My guess is most people don't even know or care that such things as "Apple fans" exist.
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So will Apple ever offer us the full web in a tablet device like the others do?
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No, the only people who feel that way are the non-Apple techie types. I doubt they constitute "most people." My guess is most people don't even know or care that such things as "Apple fans" exist.
Not if you check his post history.
Seriously? Paying someone for their expertise does not make someone lazy or unwilling to educate themselves. It's a normal part of society. Lawyers. Doctors. Whatever.
Some people have absolutely no interest in computers, they just use them to accomplish specific tasks. Apple products have their advantages. They provide an integrated solution that answers questions about how to accomplish a task simply and definitively. Why do I need a choice if I don't care how it's done, only that it gets done? Why does that make me lazy? It just means other things are more important to me.
Apple customers being "fanboys" is a self-perpetuating illusion. The characteristics that people attribute to fanboys are actually a small percentage of Apple customers. Every group has its crazies. For every *LTD*, there are 100s of normal Apple customers that get the same label thrown at them. No offense to *LTD*, irrational passion can be great. I'm the same way about sports.
And FWIW, the "10% world" doesn't really have any meaning since the iPod took off. Apple isn't just about Macs.
My money is on no. They'll keep grinding away at Flash until it dies.
And as a web designer, I cheer them. Die, Flash. DIE!
But let it be a gradual death. It may die slowly, withering as open, accessible alternatives evolve to fully replace it.
And as a web designer, I cheer them. Die, Flash. DIE!
But let it be a gradual death. It may die slowly, withering as open, accessible alternatives evolve to fully replace it.
And almost all of these people buy and use PCs. Like I said, Apple products are only for minority of "special" people.
It´s quite funny actually, ´cause Macs are really good for average folks, but yet they buy PCs and have this "attitude" against Apple and Macs. I guess lot has to do with the expensive prices. But also from this Apple´s "reputation", which isn´t very good among the regular folks. I don´t know why that is though, can´t be just from the expensive prices.
The iPad has given them even more ammunition to bash Apple and to buy Android phones/tablets and PCs.
You wouldn´t believe what I have to go through with my friends, ´cause I buy Apple products.
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Ooo... missed this interesting conversation. Sorry, but you're wrong about this. Apple's primary demographic for pretty much every product they offer (an obvious exception being pro software) is the typical consumer. Apple's computers sell strong in the home of the average Bob and Jill. Bob and Jill like the Apple computer because they've heard great things about it, they hear it doesn't get viruses and other malware, they hear it is easy to use, their friend or boss talks fondly about how pleasant it is to us, their son told them to get it because he's tired of fixing their PC, because it is the popular product, whatever. You couldn't be more wrong about this.
People wonder sometimes why Apple seems to 'ignore' this comparably small vocal community of Apple aficionados on the internet. Why? Because we are not the people that make their products sell so well. We do not have the same interests as the lion's share of their demographic. Apple is targeting, effectively and consistently, their core demographic: the exact same sort of people who would rather read the newspaper, a book, or take their children to a soccer match, then care one bit what on earth a GHz is, the difference between terms like storage space, memory, and RAM, or what on earth a CES is and why they should care about it.
I wish you lot would make you mind up.
Now you are saying Apple make iPhones and iPad for the general consumer.
And yet when you ask about lower cost mass market products, we get told, "No" Apple don't want to aim for the real mass market. they would rather only sell lower quantity higher priced items and not get involved in that area.
Now you are saying Apple make iPhones and iPad for the general consumer.
And yet when you ask about lower cost mass market products, we get told, "No" Apple don't want to aim for the real mass market. they would rather only sell lower quantity higher priced items and not get involved in that area.
Apple does not make products for those who are extremely poor. They also do not make low quality products. The problem with the logic you've seen above is some kind of assumption that the typical consumer should be buying the cheapest product available. Most responsible people will choose to spend a little more money on a product which is higher quality, offers more in return, and will last longer.
Consider the typical $400 PC in the hands of the typical consumer. It will often-times become infected with malware at some point (especially if they have children) and will result in additional expenses (usually making it cost as much as a Mac after a few affairs), or it will become a pretty miserable tool to use (malware-infected computers don't run well). Heck, it will become infected well enough even if they bought anti-malware. Also, those cheap computers (most of the computers on the market) are made as cheaply as possible, with many corners cut, and it shows in how long they last and the ways in which they fail. Whether or not a customer is buying a Mac, they should be spending a little more money on a computer which is going to last and be appropriate for their family.
Typical phones are no different. Horrible build quality.
A family which chooses to buy the lowest quality products is really just shooting themselves in the foot, and that choice has nothing to do with whether they are a general consumer or not.
Finally, it should also be qualified that Apple's demographic (for the reason mentioned above and others) tends not to be the poorest classes of society. They really just have no interest in that market.
I think the reason why so many people in a forum such as this one mix this up is because they are judging the Apple customer base by what they see around the internet. The majority demographics of those Apple customers—the ones who have made Apple Inc. such a filthy rich company—couldn't care less about what goes on in a forum like this one, wouldn't know it existed anyway, and cannot be estimated by looking at the internet behaviors of the tech elite and Mac aficionados or hobbyists.
Consider the following options:
1) Making a product for the general consumer
2) Making products which are not the cheapest in their category
3) Selling mass market products
None of these contradict each other.
Also, if you think Apple could simply lower prices but sell more to make up the difference then you don't get the complexity of economics involved.
That said, could you quote the person who said all the things you are talking about please? I never saw them in the thread. Thanks!
I just wish Apple would give us the option to allow Flash on the iPad. Hell, even have it turned off by default, but give us a way to turn it on! The consumers should have a right to use a program on their computer, even if it makes it less efficient.
It's understandable on the iPhone. It's small and whatnot, but they're marketing the iPad as a computer, not just an entertainment device.
It may be naive of me, but I'm still hoping they put it in the iPad 2. I didn't buy a first iPad, and the lack of Flash is partially to blame. I'll be pretty much sold on the iPad 2 if Flash is allowed.
It's understandable on the iPhone. It's small and whatnot, but they're marketing the iPad as a computer, not just an entertainment device.
It may be naive of me, but I'm still hoping they put it in the iPad 2. I didn't buy a first iPad, and the lack of Flash is partially to blame. I'll be pretty much sold on the iPad 2 if Flash is allowed.
Because the alternative threatens their relatively weak app and music stores. This is also why they didn't allow downloading files as well as downloading music from other sources than iTunes for direct iPod app integration.
They're going in a poor path and I hope Steve resigns before some major damage happens.
On one hand, we have high levels of consumer demand and satisfaction, the company is steering and defining the market, and Apple shares are doing quite well indeed. On the other hand, we have some on-line FUD.
Some people already addressed this and corrected your misunderstanding. I guess their posts didn't show up for you. Here are the relevant parts. Cheers!
Also:
Where do you come up with these "facts"?
That's a pretty ridiculous argument if it was 10 years ago and we were only considering Macs. But it's 2011 and Apple is the largest manufacturer of mp3 players in the world and the largest manufacturer of smartphones in the US and the largest manufacturer of tablets in the world. On top of being the fourth largest manufacturer of PCs in the country.
Apple has a fantastic reputation "among the regular folks." You are just repeating stereotypes and FUD that you've been exposed to over the years. What is Apple's PC market share if you take out enterprise sales? I'd bet it's a lot higher than 10% in the US. And we already know they have a 70% market share in the mp3 player market.
The bashers don't need any ammunition to bash. Not sure what your point is regarding the iPad and Android.
You wouldn´t believe what I have to go through with my friends, ´cause I buy Apple products.
I think anyone that reads these forums has an idea of what crap Apple users can get.
I wish you lot would make you mind up.
Now you are saying Apple make iPhones and iPad for the general consumer.
And yet when you ask about lower cost mass market products, we get told, "No" Apple don't want to aim for the real mass market. they would rather only sell lower quantity higher priced items and not get involved in that area.
The confusing part for you is that you think there is a "lot" that has one mind made up. Different people, different opinions, different products, different strategies. An explanation of someone's opinion of Apple's strategy in the PC market is different than their opinion of Apple's strategy in the iPad market. Just like they used a different strategy in the digital music player market to get to a 70% market share.
Relatively weak? Compared to what? Apple promoted and continues to promote web apps. Flash on the web isn't a competitive threat to native apps at this point. I don't hear much about people forgoing native apps on Android in favor of Flash apps on the web.
It may be in the future, but so will HTML5.
That may be your opinion, but it's not supported by any facts. You can download almost any type of file on an iOS device. I like how you have to qualify the music downloads to "direct iPod app integration". As if that is the only acceptable way to listen to music.
The number of things you have to ignore for this statement to make sense is overwhelming.
So it can play Flash. iPad doesn't have fans.
That is incorrect. I want the same experience on the iMac as I get on the iPad. I use click to flash and I NEVER click. When I use my iPad, I end up on iPad friendly sites. A better experience. I no longer use my Windows laptop for web browsing. It would belch out fire and brimstone whenever I hit a flash heavy site.
I changed my mind, you don't deserve a comment from me.
Basically it all boils down to if you're a web developer, do you want to code out millions of people ?
I don't care what Steve's reasons are for being anti flash, I just know I have a better 'web' experience without flash.
For those that mentioned Active X, MS has it DISABLED by default because of security reasons.
And almost all of these people buy and use PCs. Like I said, Apple products are only for minority of "special" people.
It´s quite funny actually, ´cause Macs are really good for average folks, but yet they buy PCs and have this "attitude" against Apple and Macs. I guess lot has to do with the expensive prices. But also from this Apple´s "reputation", which isn´t very good among the regular folks. I don´t know why that is though, can´t be just from the expensive prices.
The iPad has given them even more ammunition to bash Apple and to buy Android phones/tablets and PCs.
You wouldn´t believe what I have to go through with my friends, ´cause I buy Apple products.
Seriously, FlexEngineer... This is old.
Flash
I hate Flash!!! I lost 3 computers and my PS3 to it. It is a piece of ****! I get why apple won't install flash. And by the way, the skyfire browser is so glitchy because it runs flash! If only apple could find a way to get a ton of websites to switch to something besides flash (maybe a little bribe would work). I don't know. If the ipad 2 does run flash more people will buy it, but less people will like it (because of all the bugs).
I hate Flash!!! I lost 3 computers and my PS3 to it. It is a piece of ****! I get why apple won't install flash. And by the way, the skyfire browser is so glitchy because it runs flash! If only apple could find a way to get a ton of websites to switch to something besides flash (maybe a little bribe would work). I don't know. If the ipad 2 does run flash more people will buy it, but less people will like it (because of all the bugs).
Those people don't understand that Flash runs just fine on iOS and that Apple are indeed doing it for the money. They're just trying to defend their favorite company. If it was a user experience concern and if Apple actually gave half a crap about what its customers want, they'd have allowed the customers to make the choice. Cheers!
Flash works fine on my galaxy tab and evo 4g. I love being in a forum and being able to play that flash video right inside the browser. I love being able to visit the same sites on my tab and evo that i can on my pc. I had an ipad when it first launched, only recently got rid of it. It annoyed me to know end that i couldnt see flash content. Not all flash is video contrary to popular belief
Naw I disagree. Apple overcharges for the ipad as compared to other products they offer. It costs way more than the ipod touch yet offers same specs and has more room to actually put movable parts in there like ram yet Apple chose not to utilize that interior room. The software is almost all the same outside a few examples like iwork and flipboard as well.
Look at Sony, they continue to sell the ps3 at a loss or close to brreak even and apple makes even more than them off royalties of the app store so it should in theory sell the iad for like $350 (base model with case thrown in) if it was sony and there was a bunch of competition out back than.
How about a very freaking obvious usability nightmare coupled with a technical minefield, and a concrete block around the ankle of innovation?
Seriously, we don't use anything built for a desktop and mouse UI - no Mac apps, and a lot of the time even web pages not built for a good touch experience get replaced with "optimised" versions. Why would we run flash, which was never built for touch and hence wouldn't work properly and consistently anyway?
All the evidence is against your position. All the logic is against your position. You have yet to make a point other than "Apple are greedy! They want my money!". I have no doubt that Apple is greedy, but on this decision there's about a billion technical/usability hurdles, each of which is much better supported by reality than your argument.
Oh, and Apple doesn't take the "ship **** and pray" approach to design. If there's a usability issue, they find it and fix it before the user does. Don't you dare suggest they do anything else, like ship a product that they know doesn't work properly.
That's it.
Poetic. But missing the point. As mentioned, Flash runs just fine on iOS. Doesn't cause crashes, doesn't lag the page and make it unscrollable. Touch input worked perfectly well with Flash-based menus. Content from Newgrounds loaded and played perfectly well. Interestingly enough, Flash content, menus specifically, tend to use buttons that are nice and big. Links on websites, on the other hand, like choosing a page from down below, are very small and are the furthest thing from optimized for touch input. Of course, this gets completely ignored because people have to think of some reason to hate Flash. The only type of input other than keyboard input that doesn't work perfectly well is dragging. And guess what? A solution was there from day one. Have the ability to run the content in fullscreen. That's what Android lets you do, and it works perfectly well. Frash was the perfect demonstration for this. I was happy when Frash came out because I thought people would finally change their minds given the evidence showing that Flash indeed runs well on iOS and that Apple are just concerned about having competition that threatens their precious stores. Unfortunately, you people are so stuck with Apple that you fail to recognize a good product when you see it, whether it be Blu-ray, USB3.0, and now Flash. Fortunately, you guys only make up 10% of the market and thus there's plenty of choice outside of your borders.
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A) It is a user experience concern. There are many users (not just in this thread, do a search of the board) who have had problem after problem with Flash on OS X. So much so that many of us have uninstalled it or use Click 2 Flash. And voila...Safari stops crashing. Adobe has had years to fix these issues, but it's the same crap update after update. Why would we expect our experience to be any different on iOS?
B) And guess what? Users do have a choice. Last I checked the iPhone wasn't the only smart phone on the market. If no flash is a dealbreaker they have the choice to buy one of the many phones on the market that offer it. More than 10 million customers made the choice to purchase the iPhone 4, and the announcement about Verizon made front-page news today. Looks like people are continuing to vote with their wallets. And apparently, they just don't care about Flash as much as you think they do.
Maybe I should change the title to:
So will web page developers ever offer us the full web just using HTML5?
As much as I would like this to happen, I just don´t see it happening... perhaps never! It looks like Flash is here to stay for a very very long time.
I only see Flash becoming more popular. And all the other tablet devices are starting to use it and it looks like Flash is running great on these new tablets.
I hate those Flash based menus on my iPhone. I literally can´t use some of my favorite pages with iPhone, ´cause those menus just won´t work. Isn´t Apple suppose to be "it just works". I can forgive this with iPhone, but a tablet size 10", no way!
So are the web page developers the bad guys here, because they continue to use Flash?
So will web page developers ever offer us the full web just using HTML5?
As much as I would like this to happen, I just don´t see it happening... perhaps never!
It looks like Flash is here to stay for a very very long time. I only see Flash becoming more popular. And all the other tablet devices are starting to use it and it looks like Flash is running great on these new tablets.
I hate those Flash based menus on my iPhone. I literally can´t use some of my favorite pages with iPhone, ´cause those menus just won´t work.
Isn´t Apple suppose to be "it just works". I can forgive this with iPhone, but a tablet size 10", no way!So are the web page developers the bad guys here, because they continue to use Flash?