Sorry, Apple Vision Pro is dead on arrival

[subjonas]

Maybe the VP will bring that extra special Apple sauce (see what I did there?) that lifts VR into that ‘actually useful for productivity or other things beyond gaming’ place and maybe it won’t, either way, the fact they are at least trying and it’s interesting.

Another way to look at it: if Apple, with their trillions, cannot make VR more than just another, more expensive Meta Quest clone then maybe it says something about VR and how the state of technology at large is maybe not there yet to make it work…

I don’t have confidence that VR will ever become much more mainstream than it is now, just because the tech has been around forever and seems pretty mature. I think if it was going to be mainstream (however one defines that) it probably should have been by now. It might see some growth in popularity from virtual sporting events and concerts if that becomes more of a thing, but probably limited.
On the other hand, augmented reality (AR) tech is relatively immature, and it has a lot more useful functions in my opinion—so I think as the tech matures and is implemented better and better, it has much more potential to become mainstream.
I think with the limitations of current tech, Apple’s implementation of AR is probably the best, but still far off from enabling it to become as mainstream as say a smartphone. Until the tech allows a headset to be more like a pair of glasses, I think the most mainstream the VP can even hope to be is like tablets (non-children use).

 

[cardfan]

According to Kou, they have presold 180,000 already!

That’s initial demand. It’s always high for anything Apple. It’s what happens next that is the problem. HomePod. AirPods Max, Apple TV etc.

We’ve seen examples of Apple app stores that don’t take off. Apple TV. Watch. Mac.

It’s possible Apple pivots with gen 2 and focuses on games. Or it may flop altogether. Hard to say.

This isn’t a Mac. It’s more iPad vr. Very few use iPads for pro apps or big investments unless it’s very specific because they’re garbage for most part.

 

[cardfan]

i dont think apple is saying, hey throw this on your head and run into your nearest coffee shops.
but the use cases of working from home, airplanes, chilling on the couch, or having a go in your fap chair are kind of the main ones.

If you can’t work on the go with an iPad then this won’t work either since it’s iPad vr.

 

[subjonas]

If you can’t work on the go with an iPad then this won’t work either since it’s iPad vr.

There are certain apps and workflows that don’t work for iPad and probably similarly won’t work for VP, but also a lot of people’s reason for not being able to do work on iPad is due to the small screen and limited multitasking. Obviously the VP will solve the small screen issue and consequently some of the multitasking issue for them. To what extent it can multitask we’ll have to see, but the people who can do work with the VP should be a somewhat different set than that of the iPad. Obviously the VP brings in its own unique limitations.

 

[Jensend]

I don’t have confidence that VR will ever become much more mainstream than it is now, just because the tech has been around forever and seems pretty mature. I think if it was going to be mainstream (however one defines that) it probably should have been by now. It might see some growth in popularity from virtual sporting events and concerts if that becomes more of a thing, but probably limited.

VR has only really been around as a consumer option for under 8 years. Yes, there were precursors that were publicly available, but I wouldn't include anything that doesn't feature reliable 6 DOF tracking of the user's head. And many of those earlier headsets people bring up were in a time where we could barely render simple 3D graphics at a decent frame rate on a traditional monitor, much less two screens at once plus all the image warping necessary.

The tracking technology is now fairly mature, at least for tracking the position of the headset and controllers, but there are many areas that aren't mature, such as visual clarity. PC gaming headsets are good enough for gaming, but for reading text, they aren't even as good as something like a 640*480 monitor. The picture is only relatively clear in the center of the frame, and gets blurrier towards the edges.

On the other hand, augmented reality (AR) tech is relatively immature, and it has a lot more useful functions in my opinion—so I think as the tech matures and is implemented better and better, it has much more potential to become mainstream.
I think with the limitations of current tech, Apple’s implementation of AR is probably the best, but still far off from enabling it to become as mainstream as say a smartphone. Until the tech allows a headset to be more like a pair of glasses, I think the most mainstream the VP can even hope to be is like tablets (non-children use).

I view VR and AR as a spectrum, rather than separate categories. Even my PC VR headset from 2016 had monoscopic passthrough video. The Quest 3 has stereoscopic passthrough. Yes, the Vision Pro has better passthrough than the Quest 3, but it also has better everything else than the Quest 3. I don't see it as being in a fundamentally different category.
If anything, you may be able to say that AR is more mainstream, given that iPhones and iPad have AR capabilities. In fact, the Vision Pro has less AR capabilities than iPhones/iPads.

 

[steve09090]

That’s initial demand. It’s always high for anything Apple. It’s what happens next that is the problem. HomePod. AirPods Max, Apple TV etc.

We’ve seen examples of Apple app stores that don’t take off. Apple TV. Watch. Mac.

It’s possible Apple pivots with gen 2 and focuses on games. Or it may flop altogether. Hard to say.

This isn’t a Mac. It’s more iPad vr. Very few use iPads for pro apps or big investments unless it’s very specific because they’re garbage for most part.

The most popular watch in the world didn’t take off?

 

[torontomax]

this is your personal opinion, reactions would have been better if you’ve expressed your feelings rather than try to influence others to feel the same how you feel.

Oh wait, I keep forgetting that we’re living an age that egotistical instincts through appreciation is the “content”

Well, you got me internet machine. I commented on this provocative post.

 

[zman123]

Apple are screwed.
Vision Pro is dead on arrival.

Save this post and look at it again in two years time, then give me kudos

I can't predict the future. Maybe you are right. There is a good basis for your assumptions. But maybe things will turn out differently than expected. Here is an example for that:

I could imagine, that the Metal games might be running on the Vision Pro with not so much modification needed, making the Vision Pro a very expensive gaming device - maybe it will be as successful in gaming as Apple's Pippin. Who knows.

Apple Pippin – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

Or maybe Apple does it again. It is exciting, what will happen - this or the other way.

 

[yegon]

There are plenty of people who can afford it who don't think it brings value to the table -- at least, not $4K worth of value. [raises hand]

Yep. It’s school yard logic, assuming everyone wants whatever Apple releases, the deciding factor whether one can or cannot afford it. We’re not all petulant kidults, perhaps some of us are mature and show discernment. I know I didn’t when I bought the first Apple Watch and original iPad, haha! In hindsight, they were minimum viable products I wish I’d skipped. A fraction of the cost and arguably offering a lot more function at launch than the AVP, which will be in a cupboard within a couple of months unless you’re a dev, and obsolete before you can blink.

I said my piece in post 188, I personally think it has a high chance of being successful in the long term, but it will take multiple iterations, a far sleeker design, drastically more efficient power consumption, all at half the price or less - but you have to start somewhere, hence I understand Apples position.

I do not look forward to that day when it becomes mainstream, too much phone use is already a blight on society and turned many into dribbling, vaping buffoons.

 

[orbital~debris]

I think the more interesting question is why is @desslr so motivated to declare the new Apple computer a failure?

 

[MayaUser]

I think the more interesting question is why is @desslr so motivated to declare the new Apple computer a failure?

because he doesnt know better

 

[LiemTa]

False. Nonsense. This product is literally an iPad. It is absolutely positively nothing like a Mac. Where do you even get this ridiculously false idea from?

After figuring out you can’t simulate a multi-monitor setup, this indeed became a 3D iPad in my eyes. What was Apple thinking. This is unforgivable.

 

[laptech]

The first consumer version of the Oculus Rift VR headset came out in 2015, a VR headset that brought VR into the affordable budgets of the consumer. It is now 2024, 9 years later and still there has not been the surgence in VR that some people in the tech industry expected. If windows users did not take to VR to make it the technology that many expected it to be, what makes people think Apple users are going to be any different?

Apple VP is going to be no different to VR headsets for windows, it is going to be a tech gadget that is just going to 'be there' as and when the user feels like using it. It just like when a person has certain tools in their shed/garage, they will not get used all the time but it is there for when they decide to use it.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

The most popular watch in the world didn’t take off?

They’re talking about the app store on the Watch, which I would agree did not “take off.”

 

[steve09090]

They’re talking about the app store on the Watch, which I would agree did not “take off.”

Oh. Yeah. Oops.. agree 100%

 

[Basic75]

If anything, you may be able to say that AR is more mainstream, given that iPhones and iPad have AR capabilities.

And how many people have used those AR features for more than 10 minutes after getting their new phone?

 

[Abazigal]

The first consumer version of the Oculus Rift VR headset came out in 2015, a VR headset that brought VR into the affordable budgets of the consumer. It is now 2024, 9 years later and still there has not been the surgence in VR that some people in the tech industry expected. If windows users did not take to VR to make it the technology that many expected it to be, what makes people think Apple users are going to be any different?

Apple VP is going to be no different to VR headsets for windows, it is going to be a tech gadget that is just going to 'be there' as and when the user feels like using it. It just like when a person has certain tools in their shed/garage, they will not get used all the time but it is there for when they decide to use it.

My thoughts on this.

1) Smartphones were around for years prior, yet that didn't stop the iPhone from shaking up the industry. I predict the Vision Pro will quickly become the new gold standard from which every other VR headset will be based on and judged. It will be interesting to observe how the product changes the competition. Sure, some may point out that one ought to be realistic as to how good a $500 headset can be compared to the $3500 Vision Pro, and is this not reminiscent of the whole "iPhone vs cheap android phone" argument all over again?

Just as there were smartphones "pre-phone" and "post iPhone", there may also be headsets "pre-vision" and "post-vision".

2) I also predict that hand controllers for VR headsets will quickly become a very dated concept. And maybe that in part answers your question of why VR hasn't really taken off. It's a classic example of how technology by itself may not be enough if it doesn't ship with a compelling user interface and when the creators don't do anything to address the supposed alienating aspects of said technology.

Eyesight is an example of Apple is attempting to tackle the challenge of wearing a headset that blocks your entire face, by showing a visual representation of your facial expressions to those around you, while also allowing you to still see what is going on around you. Maybe it helps, and maybe it's another gimmick that ends up getting dropped in V2.0, but it does show that Apple has been taking notes and is actively taking steps to address the supposed social pitfalls of said product.

Ultimately, my view on headset adoption and usage is that people will be willing to wear something on their face if it looks good and provides better vision of the world around them. VR headsets have never accomplished either, which may explain why adoption has never really taken off.

 

[gerald.d]

Ultimately, my view on headset adoption and usage is that people will be willing to wear something on their face if it looks good and provides better vision of the world around them. VR headsets have never accomplished either, which may explain why adoption has never really taken off.

"and provides better vision of the world around them" than what? You appear to be talking about headset adoption in general, and not specificly referring to the AVP.

But surely that isn't the case? Could you clarify?

 

[Howard2k]

This did age bad real quick

Kuo: Apple Has Already Sold Up to 180,000 Vision Pro Headsets

Apple sold between 160,000 and 180,000 Vision Pro headsets during its first pre-order weekend, according to Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo. In a new...

www.macrumors.com

They’re all getting returned though. Just like all of the 8GB MacBooks. They will all be returned, sold again via refurb store, then returned again.

 

[yegon]

"and provides better vision of the world around them" than what? You appear to be talking about headset adoption in general, and not specificly referring to the AVP.

But surely that isn't the case? Could you clarify?

I echo this question.

Without snark, better how? Augmented with data everywhere? Name and HP bar above peoples heads, AR Pokemon hiding behind lampposts and Disney Princesses dancing on rooftops?

I see isolated use cases for such a device, I’m not a luddite, but the concept and its overuse removes people even more from reality and makes them more delusional/oblivious than they already are, staring at socials while crossing busy roads or riding electric bikes, wearing black with no lights at night.

 

[Abazigal]

"and provides better vision of the world around them" than what? You appear to be talking about headset adoption in general, and not specificly referring to the AVP.

But surely that isn't the case? Could you clarify?

Without snark, better how? Augmented with data everywhere? Name and HP bar above peoples heads, AR Pokemon hiding behind lampposts and Disney Princesses dancing on rooftops?

Better than not wearing (a headset).

To use an example, I wear glasses because it makes it easier for me to see the world around me.

Moving forward, I envision that "better vision" for headsets will probably mean something like spatial computing applications that augment our surroundings. One key feature will be spatial video and panorama photos, and the feedback I am getting from people who have had the opportunity to experience this is that they are extremely immersive and life-like and have the potential to make viewing photos on our mobile devices feel lacklustre in comparison.

Apple demoed the keynote app, and I feel like there is promise in being able to stand in a virtual room and have your presentation behind you as if you were actually giving a live keynote while still having friends / team members join in via FaceTime (or maybe even zoom) to serve as a virtual audience. And they don't need to own their own vision pro headset either.

Another area I feel the Vision Pro could excel in is concerts. Imagine being able to join a live performance virtually and always be assured of having a great spot to view the artistes from, all from the comfort of your living room. Better than flying halfway around the world, spending thousands of dollars and still not being able to see anything. And way more immersive than even the most professionally taken "fancams" on YouTube.

To reiterate my earlier point, the Vision Pro still lets users see around them (so they can still reach for and drink a cup of coffee with the headset on, something you can't really do with many other headsets). While people often think of a VR headset as being used when you are alone by yourself, the Vision Pro's ability to project an image of your facial expressions suggests that Apple does expect its users to use it in front of other people, and maybe even be seen wearing one in public some day. I am confident that said "eyesight" technology will become a signature feature of the Vision Pro which the competition will try to ape (with varying degrees of success).

It helps that Apple does have design chops. Just like how the AirPods were initially ridiculed for their appearance but are now a sort of signature trademark for the company, the Vision Pro could well become something that people are not only comfortable wearing in public, but will want to be seen wearing in public.

These are just a few examples that come to mind right now, but in general, I feel that applications on the Vision Pro have the potential to let me interact with my surroundings in a manner that may otherwise not be feasible.

 

[AdonisSMU]

I echo this question.

Without snark, better how? Augmented with data everywhere? Name and HP bar above peoples heads, AR Pokemon hiding behind lampposts and Disney Princesses dancing on rooftops?

I see isolated use cases for such a device, I’m not a luddite, but the concept and its overuse removes people even more from reality and makes them more delusional/oblivious than they already are, staring at socials while crossing busy roads or riding electric bikes, wearing black with no lights at night.

In the current iteration…. I dont see myself walking around with this thing on outside of the house or coffee shop etc like you would with a phone or tablet. I get the impression people see these things as eye goggles like they or others will just be wearing them all around day to day. Apple Vision Pro is not that at all IMO.

I see Apple Vision Pro more as a standard laptop computer to be mostly stationary but add additional space for users to use to do their computing. I dont think you all realize how much of a feature this spatial computing aspect is. Even Apple is underselling it to some extent imo.

Many applications would be better off with the additional screen real estate even for flat apps in 3D space. I dont need to see dinosaurs and games in 3D. I just generally dont want to lose the context of the room around me or at least be able to get it back easily/quickly. When Im “working” on my computer I want to be able to have more visual workspace. Apple Vision Pro provides that for me.

 

[laptech]

Wearing the VP in public is a recipe for theft. Many iphone and ipads get stolen every month from owners who are out and about using them in public and it is believed they get stolen to feed into the black market for spares and repairs. It has already been established that without Apple care, the cost of repairing the VP is going to be close to that of the cost of a new unit. Numerous websites have already reported on the high costs repairing the VP. If a iphone can be ripped out of a persons hand, a VP can be more than easily ripped off a person's head.

If a VR headset was to be worn out and about in public I do feel one of the VR headset manufacturers would have done to already. The fact they haven't implies to me there is something materially wrong with wearing a VR headset in public hence why none of them promote or markets it's use in a public environment.

 

[jlnr]

Many applications would be better off with the additional screen real estate even for flat apps in 3D space.

I often think the same, but I never found it comfortable to use anything wider than one 38" or two 27" screens. Having to look up at a screen is also extremely unergonomic, so I've never built a 2x2 grid of screens, although it's probably doable for under 1000€. How does the VP help here, in a way that makes up for having a heavy piece of tech on my head?

 

[Michaeldoerich]

Hardly anyone bad mouths a Ferrari

1. You don’t know a lot of people.
2. Ferrari is so above and beyond many people’s price range, bad mouthing a Ferrari is like bad mouthing a private jet or a yacht.
It still takes you from place to place. So not a fair comparison.
3. A person who makes say 60k/yr can save up and buy avp because it’s in their reach but it’s still too high for them…hence they despise it.

Just with in reach vs completely out of reach