Steve Jobs is a liar, Flash works fine on iPhone

[kdarling]

How does it deal with the problem that alot of flash content, especially games, you hoover your mouse pointer over areas to reveal things, and then click? With a purely touch interface that wouldn't work.

The mouse and key emulation problems are not unique to Flash.

The same situations occur with HTML pages.

They are universal problems that come with providing only touch input.

There are many HTML/CSS websites that use hover menus, and mouse events, which touch browsers cannot easily implement. There are web games that want key input. So the browsers have to provide alternative control methods.

Take mobile Safari as an example. The usual mousemove event isn't available since dragging = scrolling in the iPhone paradigm. Hover events also aren't available because it doesn't have a click-touchscreen like the BB Storm.

Mobile Safari tries to solve the hover problem by making the first click a hover and the second do the menu. Scrolling within textareas/divs is done by using two-finger drags.

As for key input, that used to be fairly easy when every phone had a cursor-pad. Now we can't even count on that. And phones are even dropping extra menu buttons that could be used. So key input is still a problem on every type of app (native, web or Flash) unless you own a phone with a physical keyboard.

Again, these are problems that must be solved for native, web or Flash apps when run on touch-only devices. They are not problems specific to Flash.

 

[0dev]

I don't think it's that people are forgetting.

The real problem as I see it quite frankly, is the situation known as the "Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field". People attack my posts because I present the facts.

I've been a loyal Apple customer for years. With all due modesty, I have a tremendous amount of experience with Apple. Years ago Jobs was a great guy, then with the successes came the arrogance & the attitude that he knows what's best for people. Now because of his wealth & power he's worshipped. He's enabled to create the havoc he has with many companies. I'm not advocating for anyone but the customer and the industry. He's a rogue CEO that's not doing anyone any good. History will bear this out years from now.

He's always been like that. Even in the early days of Apple when it was him and Wozniak, he was like that. That's just how he is.

Do I care? No. Why? Because I'm not living with the guy, I'm buying his company's stuff, and I like his company's stuff.

He isn't there to be nice, he's there to run a company and make nice stuff people want to buy. Actually, no, not even that. He's there to make Apple and their shareholders a profit. And he does his job well.

In fact, even the people on here complaining about the iPhone not having Flash still own one! At that point, neither Apple or Steve give a crap what you think; you've already paid for your phone!

 

[wirelessmacuser]

Flash is just evil.

On my Mac, it heats it up almost immediately. On my desktop PC, it works a while and if it is a longer video, then the computer just turns off in the middle (I suppose because of overheating, but I haven′t gone under the table to check). I am sure that happens. So I am very happy to be flash-free.

Oh please....

Someones been brainwashed by Apple...

 

[ninethirty]

There may be some defensive fanboys taking part in this thread, but you did not attempt to start anything constructive and you've been called out for that, and your lack of technical knowledge on the matter.

Whether you believe it or not, Apple has disallowed Flash on Apple Mobile products for 2 reasons: User Experience (which includes the issue of battery life), and The Future.

Flash has proven itself to be a poor user experience and given the stiff competition that Apple is facing from competitors, it's the edge they hold over everyone else. One phone is not the same as another - and Android has NOT caught up in terms of UX. I know - I work in UX and Interaction Design for a living. I own an Android phone an iPhone. I lasted 1 month on Android before going back. They'll get there, but right now they're not, and Apple is.

The Future - Apple has a history of pioneering new technologies and ushering out old ones. They believe (and I agree) that Flash is one of those techs that needs to go. It's a resource hog, has stability issues and isn't SEO compliant. HTML5 presents great open options, and while it's not quite there either, it's got more of a future than Flash does, and I applaud Apple for having the guts to draw a line in the sand now and build the products it believes are best.

Anyway, I've gone off on a rant. Don't act like you're clever and these folks are stupid. You started a childish thread to piss people off, and them responding to you telling you that you're an idiot does not mean that you've succeeded. It just means a lot of people think you're an idiot.

Man so many defensive fanboys it makes me lol.

 

[wirelessmacuser]

He's there to make Apple and their shareholders a profit. And he does his job well.

Wrong. If he does his job so well, why did he cheat the shareholders out of a big fat dividend recently? He claims it's because Apple needed the money ... what fool would believe that? Apples so cash rich it's obscene.

That said I do admire his skill and expertise at building a massive cult like following. People that will buy anything he pitches. Anything!

 

[Hankster]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

How exactly does it magically drain the battery? You think it will lower your battery life to 30 minutes or something? I doubt it will drain the battery any more than a video or game will. Drink enough apple kool aid?

Do you have a mac? If so, ever go to a heavy flash site? The fan sounds like its going to take off because the processor has to work extra hard just to make it work. Just imagine your smaller processor in the iphone trying to do that?

Flash is terrible, and it will die off sooner or later, HTML4 is the future.

People laughed at apple when they stopped putting floppy discs in their computers, but you never see those around anymore do you?

Only non-developers will say Flash will die. HTML5 isn't that great, most people don't have a clue what the either technology does.

 

[0dev]

Wrong. If he does his job so well, why did he cheat the shareholders out of a big fat dividend recently? He claims it's because Apple needed the money ... what fool would believe that? Apples so cash rich it's obscene.

That said I do admire his skill and expertise at building a massive cult like following. People that will buy anything he pitches. Anything!

Apple hasen't paid a dividend since 1995, but anyone who got Apple shares last year can sell them now and make a fortune.

"Building a massive cult like following", as you put it, is very good for business, whether you like it or not.

 

[rookie1082]

Oh please....

Someones been brainwashed by Apple...

No kidding.

Really, your PC turns off in the middle? Your mac goes crazy? Sounds like you need to turn up the AC in your crib. I don't think any of my PCs or laptops have EVER turned off because i'm running a flash video.

Hell, i watch flash movies all the time on all of my devices, never had a problem.

Jesus man. Youre a pathetic brainwashed sheep.

 

[rookie1082]

You started a childish thread to piss people off, and them responding to you telling you that you're an idiot does not mean that you've succeeded. It just means a lot of people think you're an idiot.

Someones upset and can't have a constructive conversation.

 

[woofermazing]

Flash is just evil.

On my Mac, it heats it up almost immediately. On my desktop PC, it works a while and if it is a longer video, then the computer just turns off in the middle (I suppose because of overheating, but I haven′t gone under the table to check). I am sure that happens. So I am very happy to be flash-free.

Ok, there is a big difference between flash on my PC versus macbook, but I haven't had a flash related crash since probably 2006? What websites are you guys browsing that give so many problems?!

 

[BaldiMac]

Wrong. If he does his job so well, why did he cheat the shareholders out of a big fat dividend recently? He claims it's because Apple needed the money ... what fool would believe that? Apples so cash rich it's obscene.

If he is as bad as you claim, why do you have to make stuff up to defend your point of view?

That said I do admire his skill and expertise at building a massive cult like following. People that will buy anything he pitches. Anything!

How big is this cult? Does it just shrink and grow depending on what point you are trying to make?

 

[Bodhi395]

The mouse and key emulation problems are not unique to Flash.

The same situations occur with HTML pages.

They are universal problems that come with providing only touch input.

There are many HTML/CSS websites that use hover menus, and mouse events, which touch browsers cannot easily implement. There are web games that want key input. So the browsers have to provide alternative control methods.

Take mobile Safari as an example. The usual mousemove event isn't available since dragging = scrolling in the iPhone paradigm. Hover events also aren't available because it doesn't have a click-touchscreen like the BB Storm.

Mobile Safari tries to solve the hover problem by making the first click a hover and the second do the menu. Scrolling within textareas/divs is done by using two-finger drags.

As for key input, that used to be fairly easy when every phone had a cursor-pad. Now we can't even count on that. And phones are even dropping extra menu buttons that could be used. So key input is still a problem on every type of app (native, web or Flash) unless you own a phone with a physical keyboard.

Again, these are problems that must be solved for native, web or Flash apps when run on touch-only devices. They are not problems specific to Flash.

I know its not a Flash only problem, I'm just wondering if they managed to solve it effectively with Android Flash.

I must say I really hate the two finger scrolling solution on the iPad, it makes using Google Reader a real pain.

 

[goosnarrggh]

Also, please remember that in the real world, processor frequencies rarely matter unless you're comparing the same model. X processor by Intel isn't any better than Y processor by Apple just because of a higher frequency. There's a whole lot more going on under the hood.

Except that in this case, the comparison is slightly more apt that you make it seem. The "600 MHz" processor was not an "Intel" CPU, and the "1GHz" processor was not an "Apple" CPU. Rather, they are both ARM CPUs, fabricated by two different silicon vendors.

The major difference is that the 600 MHz CPU was ARM11, whilst the 1 GHz CPU is ARM Cortex. Ultimately, that should actually give the 1 GHz CPU an even greater advantage over the 600 MHz CPU than the raw MHz numbers would suggest.

 

[woofermazing]

If he is as bad as you claim, why do you have to make stuff up to defend your point of view?

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/arti...d_talk_holding_on_to_cash_for_big_bold_risks/

 

[darngooddesign]

The main point the OP is overlooking is that the ONLY reason the new version of mobile flash doesn't suck is that Jobs said no to Adobe.

 

[BaldiMac]

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/arti...d_talk_holding_on_to_cash_for_big_bold_risks/

Yes. Someone proposed a dividend. Happens all the time. But the part that was made up was that Steve Jobs cheated shareholders out of a dividend.

 

[0dev]

Yes. Someone proposed a dividend. Happens all the time. But the part that was made up was that Steve Jobs cheated shareholders out of a dividend.

Apple has not paid dividends since 1995, someone buying shares would know this kind of thing, yet people still buy them. Clearly, then, shareholders don't care much.

 

[Polo5]

Steve Jobs is a liar, Flash works fine on iPhone

I think Steve Jobs is smart enough to know that flash would work on the iPhone, that he decides not to use it is another thing....

 

[mgamber]

*yawn*....this again? Jobs is a liar, Flash wasn't written by Satan, Apple's helped other apps come to market in record time and bypass AT&T's data restrictions so why not Adobe, no one knows what they're talking about because they've never seen flash on an iPhone, kool-aid, blah blah blah.

Although...all the claims about flash were made by the same fool who replied to a user's email about the antenna problem with "you're holding it wrong". One has to wonder why they don't give him an Etch-A-Sketch and tell him it's an iPad before sending him out to play with the other children.

 

[WolfXL]

I don't think it's that people are forgetting.

The real problem as I see it quite frankly, is the situation known as the "Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field". People attack my posts because I present the facts.

I've been a loyal Apple customer for years. With all due modesty, I have a tremendous amount of experience with Apple. Years ago Jobs was a great guy, then with the successes came the arrogance & the attitude that he knows what's best for people. Now because of his wealth & power he's worshipped. He's enabled to create the havoc he has with many companies. I'm not advocating for anyone but the customer and the industry. He's a rogue CEO that's not doing anyone any good. History will bear this out years from now.

The problem is that people think he is making decisions of what is best for people. He's simply saying this is the way he feels will give the best experience to people, and people are allowed to make their own decisions with their purchases.

It's a free market...if someone really feels they need Flash..then they should make sure to get a device that allows it. Not all devices have all features.

The constant whining about not having Flash is like complaining that the minivan you just bought doesn't have a convertible top....even though it didn't have one when you bought it, and there was specific advertising saying they were not planning on ever making it available.

 

[Compile 'em all]

This thread has one hell of a dumb title.

 

[iphoneguy123]

this is a dangerous line. SJ personally hates flash. if it comes out, expect apple to attack jailbreakers ferociously.

 

[goobot]

i dont get why people are fighting. install it if you want it. dont if you dont. end of story.

 

[prvt.donut]

Flash has been horrific on OSX because apple only just opened up the gpu API to developers, with allowed Adobe to off load the video decoding to the hardware video decoding chipsets on the GPU. This has been done for years on Windows. And could be done on iPhone. Of apple open up enough to allow that.

 

[samcraig]

The problem is that people think he is making decisions of what is best for people. He's simply saying this is the way he feels will give the best experience to people, and people are allowed to make their own decisions with their purchases.

It's a free market...if someone really feels they need Flash..then they should make sure to get a device that allows it. Not all devices have all features.

The constant whining about not having Flash is like complaining that the minivan you just bought doesn't have a convertible top....even though it didn't have one when you bought it, and there was specific advertising saying they were not planning on ever making it available.

While I agree with most of your post. The analogy fails a bit in my eyes. In Apple's case - they didn't just advertise the specs - they've been very vocal about Adobe and Flash.

Conversely - as per your analogy - Car manufacturers don't speak out against convertible tops (unsafe, exposure to too much sun can lead to caner, would drain the car battery to operate, etc). The also don't promote an alternative which produces the same effect. It's really not an equal comparison.

It's one thing to not include a feature and "leave it at that." It's another to proactively try and kill it off.