The way Apple handles iOS upgrades is almost criminal.

[I7guy]

So ok we have deduced that the amount of people who have upgraded older devices and have problems are in the minority, so what is the problem with apple allowing, this minority downgrading to an operating system that allowed their device to run properly again, maybe a built in chip allowing the device to be reset to the iOS it shipped with. Then almost everyone would be happy. I certainly would be if I could have all our iOS evinces back to their original speed, but out of six iPads and two iPhones only two of these devices work without issues.

Certainly that is a good question to ask apple; us mere mortals on macrumors can only speculate.

I think I can see why apple doesn't want their devices to downgrade. They now have to support multiple operating systems; can't leave them with gaping security holes. Developers have to worry about going backward and forward at the same time.

Then there is the perception issue. There has been a huge thread on the issues with the weather app and loss of frame rate. I couldn't duplicate it or it doesn't bother me. There have been reports how ios 7.1.2 trashed the iphone 4. My iphone 4 is eminently usable on 7.1.2. Maybe my eminently usable is totally non-workable for the next person. I don't know. Maybe people feel if their iphone on the next release does not perform exactly as the previous release, the new release is garbage when in fact the new release really works properly.

 

[KALLT]

Certainly that is a good question to ask apple; us mere mortals on macrumors can only speculate.

I think I can see why apple doesn't want their devices to downgrade. They now have to support multiple operating systems; can't leave them with gaping security holes. Developers have to worry about going backward and forward at the same time.

Then there is the perception issue. There has been a huge thread on the issues with the weather app and loss of frame rate. I couldn't duplicate it or it doesn't bother me. There have been reports how ios 7.1.2 trashed the iphone 4. My iphone 4 is eminently usable on 7.1.2. Maybe my eminently usable is totally non-workable for the next person. I don't know. Maybe people feel if their iphone on the next release does not perform exactly as the previous release, the new release is garbage when in fact the new release really works properly.

iOS 7.1.2 works reasonably well, actually. It was iOS 7.0 that worked horrible and iOS 7.1 was released more than five months later. That’s ages for the lifespan of the average iPhone. When I upgraded my iPhone 4, I was shocked. Just entering the PIN was a pain, it literally took seconds before the keyboard responded to a keystroke. The system was overall very unresponsive.

The thing is, this is not new for Apple. Ever since the iPhone 3G (probably even the first iPhone, I don’t know), Apple became less interested in maintaining optimal performance for every device they support. The 3G was barely usable with iOS 4. It didn’t matter to me at the time, because I upgraded to the iPhone 4, but I continued paying attention to this. When the iOS 7 GM came, I installed it. Within a few hours I knew that I would regret the update, so I returned to iOS 6 while it was possible. I was glad to have made that choice. If I had to deal with iOS 7.0 on my iPhone 4 for five months, I would not have bought another iPhone, ever. This all would not be such a big deal if the new updates would actually work great on all supported devices, but it’s demonstrably not so. That’s why this is such a big deal.

Apple is not concerned with individual complaints anymore. It cares first about overall consumer satisfaction ratings (Tim Cook claimed that iOS 7 had one of the highest consumer satisfaction ratings ever), reviews by respected expert reviewers and developer adoption. It’s the reputation that it seeks to uphold, not individual consumer satisfaction. Keynotes have become stages for showing off new attention-grabbing features, much less about overall performance and stability.

If a consumer has legitimate reasons for wanting to stay on iOS 6 (for instance) then Apple won’t allow it (unless you are lucky enough to avoid an popups, any restorations or repairs, and accept the loss of free space for preloaded iOS 7 files). You are not even allowed to keep the status quo for more than a year. There have been numerous complaints about usability, performance and loss of features that people liked. Apple disregarded them all and claimed without shame that iOS 7 is the best-received iOS update ever. That is a level of misplaced grandeur that is starting to put me off.

 

[tryphone]

I'd rather have some little bugs and little lag than a boring OS. iOS wasn't so good imo, multitasking was a pain

 

[iNotion]

Steve jobs priority is based on users' experience (good experience)..

Tim Cook priority is to make more money$$$ and get apple stock real high... Applepay? AppleWatch? iPad Air?

Remind me of someone, John Sculley?

 

[I7guy]

Nope, Tim cook is focused more in giving the people what they want. That in turn means $$$.

 

[sunking101]

I'd rather have some little bugs and little lag than a boring OS. iOS wasn't so good imo, multitasking was a pain

I should imagine that you're on your own there. As for the 'boring o/s' thing, I don't find iOS8 to be more exciting than iOS7 in any way, shape, or form.

 

[sracer]

Certainly that is a good question to ask apple; us mere mortals on macrumors can only speculate.

I think I can see why apple doesn't want their devices to downgrade. They now have to support multiple operating systems; can't leave them with gaping security holes. Developers have to worry about going backward and forward at the same time.

That's a bit of a straw man. I haven't seen anyone who is requesting the ability to downgrade to also be supported at that level. There are still plenty of older iOS devices that are not capable of running the latest versions that have the potential exposure to security holes.

Apple has already created the ability for older iOS devices to install the latest version of an app that is supported on that particular version of iOS. Again, I haven't seen anyone advocate that developers cater to those not running on the latest version of iOS.

Then there is the perception issue. There has been a huge thread on the issues with the weather app and loss of frame rate. I couldn't duplicate it or it doesn't bother me. There have been reports how ios 7.1.2 trashed the iphone 4. My iphone 4 is eminently usable on 7.1.2. Maybe my eminently usable is totally non-workable for the next person. I don't know. Maybe people feel if their iphone on the next release does not perform exactly as the previous release, the new release is garbage when in fact the new release really works properly.

This comment seems to support the idea of allowing customers to downgrade. Customer satisfaction is based greatly on customer perception.

If a customer would be satisfied with the liquid smooth performance of iOS 6 on their iPhone 4, why not provide that? Given the latest sales and revenue figures that Apple just released re: 4th quarter iPhone sales, I suspect that Apple is not too interested in doing anything differently than they are already doing.

If Apple allowed for downgrading, it would encourage more hold-outs to kick the tires on an upgrade. The percentage of hold-outs is infinitesimally small, so again not much to convince Apple to do things differently.

As it is now, unless there is a critical bug that prevents me from using my iOS device, I will not upgrade.

iOS 7.1.2 works reasonably well, actually. It was iOS 7.0 that worked horrible and iOS 7.1 was released more than five months later. That’s ages for the lifespan of the average iPhone. When I upgraded my iPhone 4, I was shocked. Just entering the PIN was a pain, it literally took seconds before the keyboard responded to a keystroke. The system was overall very unresponsive.

The thing is, this is not new for Apple. Ever since the iPhone 3G (probably even the first iPhone, I don’t know), Apple became less interested in maintaining optimal performance for every device they support. The 3G was barely usable with iOS 4. It didn’t matter to me at the time, because I upgraded to the iPhone 4, but I continued paying attention to this. When the iOS 7 GM came, I installed it. Within a few hours I knew that I would regret the update, so I returned to iOS 6 while it was possible. I was glad to have made that choice. If I had to deal with iOS 7.0 on my iPhone 4 for five months, I would not have bought another iPhone, ever. This all would not be such a big deal if the new updates would actually work great on all supported devices, but it’s demonstrably not so. That’s why this is such a big deal.

Apple is not concerned with individual complaints anymore. It cares first about overall consumer satisfaction ratings (Tim Cook claimed that iOS 7 had one of the highest consumer satisfaction ratings ever), reviews by respected expert reviewers and developer adoption. It’s the reputation that it seeks to uphold, not individual consumer satisfaction. Keynotes have become stages for showing off new attention-grabbing features, much less about overall performance and stability.

If a consumer has legitimate reasons for wanting to stay on iOS 6 (for instance) then Apple won’t allow it (unless you are lucky enough to avoid an popups, any restorations or repairs, and accept the loss of free space for preloaded iOS 7 files). You are not even allowed to keep the status quo for more than a year. There have been numerous complaints about usability, performance and loss of features that people liked. Apple disregarded them all and claimed without shame that iOS 7 is the best-received iOS update ever. That is a level of misplaced grandeur that is starting to put me off.

Very well said. I believe this sums up the current situation perfectly.

 

[TRDmanAE86]

iOS software updates are cruel and unjust

iOS 7.1.2 works reasonably well, actually. It was iOS 7.0 that worked horrible and iOS 7.1 was released more than five months later. That’s ages for the lifespan of the average iPhone. When I upgraded my iPhone 4, I was shocked. Just entering the PIN was a pain, it literally took seconds before the keyboard responded to a keystroke. The system was overall very unresponsive.

The thing is, this is not new for Apple. Ever since the iPhone 3G (probably even the first iPhone, I don’t know), Apple became less interested in maintaining optimal performance for every device they support. The 3G was barely usable with iOS 4. It didn’t matter to me at the time, because I upgraded to the iPhone 4, but I continued paying attention to this. When the iOS 7 GM came, I installed it. Within a few hours I knew that I would regret the update, so I returned to iOS 6 while it was possible. I was glad to have made that choice. If I had to deal with iOS 7.0 on my iPhone 4 for five months, I would not have bought another iPhone, ever. This all would not be such a big deal if the new updates would actually work great on all supported devices, but it’s demonstrably not so. That’s why this is such a big deal.

Apple is not concerned with individual complaints anymore. It cares first about overall consumer satisfaction ratings (Tim Cook claimed that iOS 7 had one of the highest consumer satisfaction ratings ever), reviews by respected expert reviewers and developer adoption. It’s the reputation that it seeks to uphold, not individual consumer satisfaction. Keynotes have become stages for showing off new attention-grabbing features, much less about overall performance and stability.

If a consumer has legitimate reasons for wanting to stay on iOS 6 (for instance) then Apple won’t allow it (unless you are lucky enough to avoid an popups, any restorations or repairs, and accept the loss of free space for preloaded iOS 7 files). You are not even allowed to keep the status quo for more than a year. There have been numerous complaints about usability, performance and loss of features that people liked. Apple disregarded them all and claimed without shame that iOS 7 is the best-received iOS update ever. That is a level of misplaced grandeur that is starting to put me off.

Agreed iOS 7 is full of BS positive claims.

It treats the holdouts with hijacked space, no security updates and even bugs to older systems. Mysteriosly after 2 months of being a iOS 8 holdout on my iPad Air, the preformance decreased and, new glitches developed. Ironic Right? finally with a ton of old 3GS owners, i have seen that all of a sudden during the iPhone 5's era that they loose sound and, have to be re-enabled. Pretty ironic? The reason is that Apple tries to coax users to upgrade their hardware and their phones. THey will try to put deterrents on their already functioning hardware to slow it down, then coax you to upgrade your software, and make it so slow that, it will coax you into buying a new device!

This way of software updates is cruel and unjust. Each new update is less reliable and, slower and, apple does not care. Imagine running iOS 4 on a iPhone 6? How fast and reliable would that be compared to iOS 8?

Nope, once you update, there is a very small time window which you can downgrade. So, this criminal iOS update system makes you deal with the pain.

 

[tryphone]

I should imagine that you're on your own there. As for the 'boring o/s' thing, I don't find iOS8 to be more exciting than iOS7 in any way, shape, or form.

Maybe he is talking about iOS 6? 7 was the first iOS that made me interested in an iPhone. Before that if rather any android phone

 

[Max(IT)]

Steve jobs priority is based on users' experience (good experience)..

Tim Cook priority is to make more money$$$ and get apple stock real high... Applepay? AppleWatch? iPad Air?

Remind me of someone, John Sculley?

Based on last quarter profits, Tim Cook has little to learn from haters on this forum....

----------

Agreed iOS 7 is full of BS positive claims.

It treats the holdouts with hijacked space, no security updates and even bugs to older systems. Mysteriosly after 2 months of being a iOS 8 holdout on my iPad Air, the preformance decreased and, new glitches developed. Ironic Right? finally with a ton of old 3GS owners, i have seen that all of a sudden during the iPhone 5's era that they loose sound and, have to be re-enabled. Pretty ironic? The reason is that Apple tries to coax users to upgrade their hardware and their phones. THey will try to put deterrents on their already functioning hardware to slow it down, then coax you to upgrade your software, and make it so slow that, it will coax you into buying a new device!

This way of software updates is cruel and unjust. Each new update is less reliable and, slower and, apple does not care. Imagine running iOS 4 on a iPhone 6? How fast and reliable would that be compared to iOS 8?

Nope, once you update, there is a very small time window which you can downgrade. So, this criminal iOS update system makes you deal with the pain.

You lost any credibility the moment you spoke about iOS 4 on an iPhone 6....

Imagine running MSDOS 3.11 on an Intel i7 ....

 

[I7guy]

Based on last quarter profits, Tim Cook has little to learn from haters on this forum....

----------



You lost any credibility the moment you spoke about iOS 4 on an iPhone 6....

Imagine running MSDOS 3.11 on an Intel i7 ....

Sadly, like a broken record that plays the same groove on a phonograph over and over, some are still stuck in the Steve Jobs era.

With that last quarterly results, there should be absolutely no doubt we are in the Tim Cook IOS 8/Apple Pay/Apple Watch era.

 

[Italianblend]

Nope, Tim cook is focused more in giving the people what they want. That in turn means $$$.

I would say Tim is focused on how to convince people to upgrade their devices every year. That is good business. It's a shady way that they go about it though.

 

[I7guy]

I would say Tim is focused on how to convince people to upgrade their devices every year. That is good business. It's a shady way that they go about it though.

So part of being a CEO is being a salesperson and you call that "shady"?Heck, I wish I could be as persuasive as "shady" Tim.

 

[janitor1999]

Convincing people to upgrade old technology, so it doesn't work correctly and not allowing them to downgrade back to a working OS isn't good salesmanship. Saying if you don't think your technology is upto don't upgrade doesn't cut it either, if you need to do a factory reset you are not given any other option but to go to the latest OS.

 

[I7guy]

If wanting to control the o/s version on your phone is very important, Apple is not the phone vendor for you.

 

[kazmac]

Well after almost 2 months of Yahoo email issues (8.1.2. and 8.1.3 would not access any Yahoo mail folder with more than 25 archived messages (in 8.1.2) and then would only access my inbox with 8.1.3)

and almost 3 hours on the phone with Apple / and a complaint to the iPhone support feedback, suddenly I had access again to everything today.

I had to delete the account, factory erase and restore and then use the awful Yahoo email app for a few days before that began doing the same thing the native mail app was. Finally tried the native again and am relieved I can access all of my archived Yahoo mail on the phone now. I am not sure what fixed it, but I hope it stays that way.

I truly wish Apple would slow down and make sure these software releases are good to go before releasing them.

 

[C DM]

Well after almost 2 months of Yahoo email issues (8.1.2. and 8.1.3 would not access any Yahoo mail folder with more than 25 archived messages (in 8.1.2) and then would only access my inbox with 8.1.3)

and almost 3 hours on the phone with Apple / and a complaint to the iPhone support feedback, suddenly I had access again to everything today.

I had to delete the account, factory erase and restore and then use the awful Yahoo email app for a few days before that began doing the same thing the native mail app was. Finally tried the native again and am relieved I can access all of my archived Yahoo mail on the phone now. I am not sure what fixed it, but I hope it stays that way.

I truly wish Apple would slow down and make sure these software releases are good to go before releasing them.

And that's assuming there wasn't something odd with the account on Yahoo!'s side to begin with.

 

[kazmac]

And that's assuming there wasn't something odd with the account on Yahoo!'s side to begin with.

Access was perfectly fine before 8.1.2 and I can access all of the email on the web. The senior Apple rep was supposed to call me back yesterday with news from the engineers but did not, so the timing makes me think otherwise.

I went through all the steps with Yahoo too. The fact is, the past year has been unlike anything I have had prior to that with Apple software. YMMV.

 

[Rodster]

Convincing people to upgrade old technology, so it doesn't work correctly and not allowing them to downgrade back to a working OS isn't good salesmanship. Saying if you don't think your technology is upto don't upgrade doesn't cut it either, if you need to do a factory reset you are not given any other option but to go to the latest OS.

If Jail broken then yes but I can do a full reset on my iPad's without having to accept the latest OS.

 

[audirs5]

Thread is too long but I will say one thing.

Upgraded my iphone 5 to the latest OS. Phone was buggy and slow. Period.

Upgrade my 2011 MBA to the latest OS. Barely usable. I can understand the MBA since it is older. But still. Comical how bad the items worked after being upgraded. Thank god I still had time to downgrade.

 

[thadoggfather]

Thread is too long but I will say one thing.

Upgraded my iphone 5 to the latest OS. Phone was buggy and slow. Period.

Upgrade my 2011 MBA to the latest OS. Barely usable. I can understand the MBA since it is older. But still. Comical how bad the items worked after being upgraded. Thank god I still had time to downgrade.

It's a good thing you can downgrade OS X at least.

I'm on Mavericks on my 2011 Air and staying on it.

 

[Italianblend]

Upgrade my 2011 MBA to the latest OS. Barely usable.
.

So, it's not just limited to ios then?

 

[TouchMint.com]

Wheres the option for no one else supports devices 5 years or older? gl running anything current on a 5 year old android haha.

 

[C DM]

Wheres the option for no one else supports devices 5 years or older? gl running anything current on a 5 year old android haha.

That's kind of the point that it would run like crap most likely in many instances even if it could be installed. Apple makes it available for older devices which is great but it seems that some of those devices don't run as well on the newer versions for enough people that it would be good to be able to use an older version that does run well.

 

[robertosh]

A downgrade it's a step back, and for all users. If apple has to put so much efforts in supporting an older SO, they wouldn't put the same effort on the newest OS, services, etc.

I think that the update system it's remarkable. I remember my first iPod touch, one day I updated it and voila, now I have apps. (yes, i had to pay but for a few euros i had a totally new device). My 1st generation iPad mini runs iOS 8 in a acceptable way and it's a device with more than 2 years old.

I'm talking based on my experience and i'm not the kind of people that buy a new device every year:

iPod touch 1G - bought in 2007, sold in 2010
iPod touch 4G - bought in 2010, sold in 2014

I'm happy with all the support and updates received and i've enjoyed the devices from day 1 to the last.