Agree to disagree. A notch is an eye sore. A hole punch would be hardly noticeable
You’re right. At least there’s that. A compromise is a compromise
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Thinking of cancelling new M1 MacBook Pro order due to notch
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Just because you think there are technological limitations with camera and sensor array miniturization doesn't mean there are. Or that these things can't be overcome with enough money, determination, and focus. A Product Manager or Entrepreneur with that 'can't do' attitude will never find real success.
This was 2 years ago as an example of what's possible...
Xiaomi explains more about how its under-screen camera actually works
The notch may soon be a thing of the past.
www.theverge.com
So . . . why didn't they care about brand-recognition for the current M1 MacBook Air? And I thought the iMac's "chin" was it's main "brand-recognition" feature (according to those who hold that theory), so why was that good enough for all those years and all of a sudden they need white bezels to have brand recognition now?
I see this argument stated a lot, but I'm not so sure I buy it. And I'm saying this as someone who couldn't care less about the notch or white bezels either way.
JUST MAKE A PUNCH HOLE, either, I know that the notch houses more than just the webcam. But as Serban55 explained to me that the notch is a border that was there already but Apple expand the display beyond the 16:10 aspect ratio full native 2x scaling so it was there??
1. The MacBook Air literally has MacBook Air on the bottom bezel for brand recognition these new machines don’t have that…. Removal of ‘MacBook Pro’ on bottom bezel - Notch added.
2. The chin was the recognisable feature because it was branded with an Apple logo right in the centre of it… now that has gone, the white bezels make the product more recognisable as an Apple product. Removal of Apple logo on chin - White bezels added.
Just because you think there are technological limitations with camera and sensor array miniturization doesn't mean there are. Or that these things can't be overcome with enough money, determination, and focus. A Product Manager or Entrepreneur with that 'can't do' attitude will never find real success.
This was 2 years ago as an example of what's possible...
Xiaomi explains more about how its under-screen camera actually works
The notch may soon be a thing of the past.
It's funny that you choose to ignore that quality of that camera, which in the Mix 4 (which came out this year) is a 20 megapixel, in a phone that is thicker than the MacBook Pro's lid.
Seeing that for the last 3 years of MacBook releases, there were tons of people complaining about it being 720p (more tax n this manufactured notch outrage), if Apple had stuck a 20 megapixel one in there, there would easily be more people complaining, than about the notch.
Thank you for helping prove the technology is not there yet. ?
No, just being realistic. Again, we're not saying we like the notch, just that we understand the choice, due to the technology isn't there yet to get it in the new thin bezel or under screen.
Thank you, and good night! ??
I think the notch would have made more sense with FaceID implementation whenever that was ready, be it another year or two. A good web cam even these COVID days isn’t that important, I don’t really care for people to have to see a super clear version of me on work calls (if the cam is turned on at all), and for friends/family I generally use phones anyway. If we had the same camera as the M1 Mac say, sure we would have had the same reviewer complaints but I think it’s more of a want than a need - and to be fair I think that cam is pretty okay despite being 720p. The upgrade didn’t warrant a notch is just my 2 cents.
The technology is there to put in a good camera without having a notch: nice strawman. There are multiple ways of doing it, and Apple, if they had the determination, could have done it better than anyone. Be it a popup Webcam or an embedded one in the screen (both types are shipping in phones and laptops). And to add to the absurdity of your and everyone else's position, the new MacBook Pros don't even have FaceTime or... centre stage... in spite of there being a massive notch, but my little iPad Mini does have centre stage. There is no excuse for any of this in a top end laptop from Apple.
Aye.
How do you know it has a good camera? It’s not a released device & there’s no specs out yet.
Chances are it’s going to have a <720p camera.
Nice straw man dude. Come back when you can prove that a 1080p camera, sensors, etc, can fit in the new thin bezel with the thin lid.
You’ll see when a tear down is done, there isn’t the space in the notch for the sensors required for TrueDepth & the other items, which is what’s needed for centre stage.
Also, they do have FaceTime ?
The pop up cameras and under screen cameras currently shipping are in devices thicker than the MacBook Pro lid, and also most are not that good quality.
You seem to rely on the 2D dimensions of the notch & leave out depth when you try and say ‘but the tablets/phones…..’ which is unclear as if that’s on purpose or not, but anyone can just see its flawed.
So…buy that thing and save yourself all this consternation.
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1. Then why got through the trouble of adding a notch to the MBP instead of just saying "MacBook Pro" at the bottom bezel?
2. You could have an Apple logo without a chin.
See, it just doesn't add up.
The worst thing about the notch is that the menu bar extends below it a little. Menu bar looks thicker too. Wtf are you thinking Apple?? I was at peace with the notch until I saw this. I hope they change that in a software update
Same question can go for why bother removing MacBook Pro branding from the bottom bezel or the Apple logo from the chin in the first place…
It’s because the way they are designed give a minimalist look whilst still giving brand recognition, ensuring the devices don’t look too busy on the face of them.
Imagine if the iMac had black bezels without the Apple logo and a store had the silver one on display next to several other all in one desktops it wouldn’t exactly jump out would it… the white bezels draws you immediately to the iMac which then leads you to the realisation it’s an iMac and not any bog standard all in one desktop. Yes they could have achieved the same by adding the Apple logo but again they are going for a minimalistic design approach.
Same applies to the MBP, now imagine if the notch was not there… on initial impression it would probably look like an old 2015 laptop, the notch is immediately recognisable as it is on a product which equates to 60% of Apples annual turnover (the iPhone)… so you can immediately recognise it as an Apple product.
Neither the White Bezels or Notch provide any sort of functional improvements over not having them, yet they are here so you have to ask yourself why did apple feel the need to include these design choices and the answer is simply recognition of their products from the competition.
Now there are rumours that the larger sized iMac will have black bezels but guess what… it’s coming with a notch… so they can have a camera on the white bezelled iMac without a notch, but they can’t achieve that with the black bezel higher end iMac, so what is it about the black bezelled iMac which prevents them from just putting the camera in the bezel itself… granted it’s still only a rumour, but I can guarantee it will come with a notch if it has black bezels.
Brand recognition is extremely important to apple and always has been it’s how they have become the company they are today…
Glowing Apple Logo
The Digital Crown
The Notch
White Bezels
Scroll Wheel
Only white coloured airpods
All for brand recognition, it’s what sets their products apart from the competition and make them all instantly recognisable.
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Yeah I noticed that and it played havoc with my OCD… just have the menu bar the same thickness as the notch fgs!!
If they didn’t have that small bit underneath…it wouldn’t be a notch. The menu bar would simply be split into two separate pieces.
Well, that's my point. If that was sufficient brand recognition for all these years, why all of a sudden is it not good enough? I'm not sure how having "MacBook Air" or "MacBook Pro" on the bottom bezel looks "too busy". I've never really heard that complained about before. In fact, I think they look much nicer WITH the subdued text there, and it leaves no doubt what computer you're looking at. And isn't one of the main complaints about the notch that it's "distracting", which would go against "minimalist" principles? Again, I'm not saying I agree with that, but it's definitely a complaint you hear.
And the notch disappears from sight depending on your theme/background and in full-screen, so that doesn't make for a really good brand identifier, since it's often not even visible or noticeable.
Or just keeping the chin, which they did (and when people questioned why, "brand recognition" was the number one answer people gave . . . even though no Apple logo). And again, since when is a single Apple silhouette considered "too busy"? It was a very clean look imo and far more powerful brand-recognition (since it's a trademarked logo). I think they're just playing around with the design as designers are wont to do. Some people will like these decisions; other's won't.
Actually, as has been discussed, the notch does indeed provide "functional improvement". True, the white bezels don't add functional improvement, but neither do many other aesthetic choices Apple makes on it's various products that have nothing to do with brand recognition. For example, some iPhones have flat edges and others round edges. Neither of these is a brand-recognition decision. It's simply an aesthetic choice, just like the white bezels. I think a far more logical reason for the white bezels is to harken back to the "fun" look of the original iMacs.
I'm just picking one of your examples here for the sake of brevity, though I could make similar arguments for others. If this is true, then why not make all Apple Watches and iPhones white too (or another color that most other phones aren't)?
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Since they keep the 16:10 aspect ratio for the display below the notch I see nothing negative about the notch. Why would you be upset that apple gave us extra screen real estate.
Went to the store today to look at and play with the new MBPs. While the notch is looking weird, and the cursor hiding behind it or BBEdit menus split in half feels definitely ridiculous, it's not that bad. I fear* I could get completely used to it within about a day or so.
*if reason prevails, I should get a M1 MacBook Air, as I don't need the CPU an GPU power of the MBP.
That's a big if, however, as the MBP 14" is suprisingly nice to look at, type on, and hold – it strangely felt lighter than both a 13" M1 MBP and a MBA. Whichever it'll be, my 16" i9 leg roaster probably won't be here for long anymore.
*if reason prevails, I should get a M1 MacBook Air, as I don't need the CPU an GPU power of the MBP.
That's a big if, however, as the MBP 14" is suprisingly nice to look at, type on, and hold – it strangely felt lighter than both a 13" M1 MBP and a MBA. Whichever it'll be, my 16" i9 leg roaster probably won't be here for long anymore.
1. Because all these years Apple have been building their brand now they are a fully established brand so don’t need as obvious brand recognition as they did years ago, but they still need some form of brand recognition going forward even if it isn’t sticking their logo on everything (hence why the AirPods max have no visible logo on them at all).
2. MacBook Pro and MacBook Air were on the bottom bezel because both products looked extremely similar when open and on display (that changed slightly when the Touch Bar arrived, but the design was when the entry pro didn’t have a Touch Bar).
3. The notch can be distracting in use, but in a showroom it’s the opposite, it attracts you to the laptop as it is the only one showing this aesthetic design.
4. Cost cutting is likely the reason why the Apple logo isn’t present on the chin of the iMac, plus it’s not needed now as the white bezels are enough of a brand recognisable aesthetic.
5. Have you ever noticed what brand of headphones someone is using in the street when they walk past with black buds??? No? Me neither… whereas whenever I see a white pair of buds or a white wire dangling from someone’s ears I immediately think ‘Apple’ and that is the reason they have remained white… now you might argue that the AirPods Max arnt just white… and why??? Because they are primarily used in a studio or at a computer, plus they are an expensive niche product which most wouldn’t buy in a local electronic store, in fact I have never seen a pair in the wild, so that recognition isn’t required as much.
Also all products by Apple have their own brand recognisable design aesthetics, so no reason to make them all white.
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Trust me when I say Apple are probably one of the best for promoting their products and ensuring their brand is recognised… that’s the reason why apple are able to sell and people are willing to pay $19 for a microfibre cloth lol, or $99 for a woven fabric strap… both of which could be bought for less than a packet of sweets (candy), they are masters at marketing and ensuring their brand is what you want not just what you need, and why they have become the company they are today…
The menu bar has been removed from the existing 16:10 aspect ratio display & added above that. So now you have extra useable screen & then menu in the space above it, which has the notch in between.
As Bobby says below:
You mean, like the large silver Apple logo on the lids of the brand new MacBook Pros? ?
The horse is starting to be beaten to death here, so I won't take the time to address each of your points (I personally don't find them convincing) and just leave it at this. But I do want to agree that Apple is incredible at marketing. I simply disagree that the "notch" has anything to do with it.
That’s fine but ask yourself this… why make the notch look exactly like the iPhones notch? does it really need to be that big and square? This is a different product after all, they could have just put something similar to this on it… it only houses a 1080p camera, a couple of sensors and an LED light after all…
