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Stop being so human-centric. There were living things in North America before the first native peoples set foot on the soil. For that matter the entire Earth. Have you bothered to find out what the single celled organisms desire? What about random RNA strings?

In any case, as ridiculous as I think this person's position is I don't see any absolute being a great path forward for those previously covered under DACA. It's a complex issue that can't be sorted out in a piffy internet forum post.
The word is "pithy", but yeah; you're right. :)

Billions are watching what we do. 0.8 million may suffer or be inconvenienced, but BILLIONS, (thousands of times more) will learn and will adapt their future behavior from what we do today.

Sure, there is room for compassion in there, but maybe the most important point of all of this is that it could be a teaching moment of the highest order. And THAT is critically important because it has the potential to redirect human behavior for the better, which would be a positive for America for generations to come.

Every country needs to be able to defend itself from those who would seek to do it harm, whether from inside or from outside, whether military, financial, or by losing the birth rate. Right or wrong, that's just a fact of life, and all of human history is my evidence of that.
 
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America was losing its fat and lazy image, which was great! Problem is their new international image is one of a sociopath. That’s the only fitting word for it.
The US Feds earned that that title when it dropped nuclear bombs on fishing villages. This immigration question is important, but pales in comparison to war.
 
They're illegal aliens plain & simple. They deserve nothing less than to be deported.
[doublepost=1504550894][/doublepost]
Sorry to burst your narrative but I in no way support Trump. I support the LAW and these people should be deported.

Apologies. You're still pretty disgusting.
 
Aren't all Americans illegal immigrants in a way? Why was it okay hundreds of years ago? Hypocrites.

Qué es "dreamer"?


jk

You haven't seen the worst part yet.

Illegal immigrants hold A LOT of power in some parts of the US.
From who gets the 'A' in class , to who gets the nice job and comfortable lifestyle.
I'd guarantee you'd change your opinion if you moved to a place in the US that's basically run by illegal immigrants. You probably wouldn't get a job unless (1) you speak Spanish , or (2) , you're so educated that you would have to be hired regardless (ex: if you hold a Ph.D and MD from the US).
 
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250 people is a massive portion of his workforce? Really?
[doublepost=1504538845][/doublepost]

I was saying the various issues that Cook has stood for *together* affect a massive number people of he employs. Between ones affected directly or indirectly via people they work with that care about their rights and welfare. Obviously.
 
To those of you who support illegal immigrants , I encourage you to move to Hialeah , FL and tell me your opinion afterwards.

I'd like to hear about your daily life there , especially if you can't speak Spanish.
 
yeah we know trump really values rule of law that's why he pardoned a man convicted of contempt for the rule of law.

say it with me guys

DOG-WHISTLE
DOG-WHISTLE
DOG-WHISTLE

Dog-whistle? Wow. Let me introduce you to something called the straw man argument. Your comment has absolutely NO connection to labor law. #TryHarder
 
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Good riddance to the dreamers but I don't think anyone really thinks they'll be banned.
 
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The problem here, it seems, is that Trump has to make a tough decision about correcting a poor immigration policy decision enacted by Obama.

Why would anyone make a policy (if I'm understanding correctly) that kids who come to a country under a certain age, are excluded from immigration policy, in the first place? What other countries do that?

AFAIK, it's typical for a 'where born' to apply, but not include the rest of the family or if you come after birth. The rest of the family has to apply to immigrate. And, a kid born elsewhere doesn't automatically get to stay. And, getting a work permit is typically tough, and certainly not renewed in an ongoing basis.

It seems what Trump is doing is in line with most other countries I'm familiar with, and the oddball rule was the one Obama put into place.
 
They're illegal aliens plain & simple. They deserve nothing less than to be deported.
[doublepost=1504550894][/doublepost]
Sorry to burst your narrative but I in no way support Trump. I support the LAW and these people should be deported.

Being human is one thing whilst being an illegal alien is a social term.
 
And The Donald just went ahead to kill DACA. I knew there was a potential for these kids to be at risk of deportation after coming out of the shadows as soon as a Republican administration took power. They wanted to have legal protection but many will now wish they hadn't signed up.

In my opinion ending DACA is just cruel. Even Paul Ryan was against this decision and he's really conservative. Trump just wants to destroy as much of Obama's legacy as possible. I've never seen someone have so much hate for another person, especially towards a former President. Bush 41 and 43 both have a great relationship with Bill Clinton and each sought guidance and advice from their predecessor. Even Obama got along with Dubya. Obama's letter showed that while he was disappointed with the outcome, he was wiling to be there to offer advice to Trump but as we all know Donald doesn't want to have anything to do with Obama. It's a shame since Trump could've gained popularity had he made the effort to be a President for everyone not just his base. Every action he has either taken or attempted to take has been with the sole purpose of infuriating both Democrats and independents, the 64% +/- 3 that does not approve of his performance thus far.

On another note: It's sad to see so many tech enthusiasts be in favor of such a harsh policy. These kids were brought here without their consent. They have stayed out of trouble, studied and even graduated while having much lower resources compared to Americans born here. They just want to be able to work, pay taxes and contribute to our economy. This country needs more people with STEM skills. I agree that we need some sort of immigration reform but DACA protection should be honored for those brave enough to come forward even if the program is ended.
 
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This is why we should never listen to Trumpers - they cause businesses to fail by hiring untalented people instead of talented people. That's why they are failures.

The US isn't based on "rule of law". We are based on "rule of people".

The people override the law. The law doesn't override the people.

If you don't like Democracy, you can go back to Russia.



What the helming........

Where does this nonsensical thinking come from???

The United States in not based on the rule of people. If we wanted that we would live in a dictatorship where men rule by their capricious whims and hold on power. That is the very thing the founding father were running from. Russia "rule by people" -- e.g., Putin and company.

The United States is a nation of laws - it is what has made us different and successful.
People cannot override the law - that is called chaos - and again you want that ?? Try Venezuela. Ain't working out so well.

We are a Constitutional Republic. Pure Democracy is where the individual is sacrificed to mob rule. We don't have that here.

Don't they teach civics anymore??? Where does this utter lack of understanding and facts come from??
[doublepost=1504555144][/doublepost]
And The Donald just went ahead to kill DACA. I knew there was a potential for these kids to be at risk of deportation after coming out of the shadows as soon as a Republican administration took power. They wanted to have legal protection but many will now wish they hadn't signed up.

In my opinion ending DACA is just cruel. Even Paul Ryan was against this decision and he's really conservative. Trump just wants to destroy as much of Obama's legacy as possible. I've never seen someone have so much hate for another person, especially towards a former President. Bush 41 and 43 both have a great relationship with Bill Clinton and each sought guidance and advice from their predecessor. Even Obama got along with Dubya. Obama's letter showed that while he was disappointed with the outcome, he was wiling to be there to offer advice to Trump but as we all know Donald doesn't want to have anything to do with Obama. It's a shame since Trump could've gained popularity had he made the effort to be a President for everyone not just his base. Every action he has either taken or attempted to take has been with the sole purpose of infuriating both Democrats and independents, the 64% +/- 3 that does not approve of his performance thus far.

On another note: It's sad to see so many tech enthusiasts be in favor of such a harsh policy. These kids were brought here without their consent. They have stayed out of trouble, studied and even graduated while having much lower resources compared to Americans born here. They just want to be able to work, pay taxes and contribute to our economy. This country needs more people with STEM skills. I agree that we need some sort of immigration reform but DACA protection should be honored for those brave enough to come forward even if the program is ended.


Trump won the election precisely on this issue. I think you are also rewriting history here - Obama was vile against Bush (W) and the left gave him no rest or respect during his presidency. In fact -- since 2000 the left has been hateful and violent to anyone who isn't far left radical.

You are looking through revisionist history glasses. The DACA program was a legal farce from the get go and it encouraged thousands of families to send minors north unaccompanied -- putting them in danger. And Obama's lack of enforcement and letting criminal aliens stay in the US even after they were supposed to be deported resulted in the death of 1800 American citizens by illegal immigrants during his 8 year term. Their blood is on his hands and the hands of the left wing progressives.

Trump made this promise during the election -- and kept it. Now let Congress come up with a plan to deal with the ones already here and get back to the rule of law.
 
What about LEGAL immigrants who spend a small fortune doing it right? Do they not have dreams? Where's the sympathy for those doing it LEGALLY?
I'm one of your "legal" immigrants, who had his green card before ever crossing the boarder. Guess what - I am more concerned about a kid who's spent most of their life in the US, may or may not speak their "native" language, would be an absolute foreigner if shipped back, and who never had the opportunity to make a choice. I don't demand brownie points for having been perfectly legal myself.

Most "illegals" pay taxes without any hope for receiving social security when they retire. Many don't "sneak in", they overstay a visa, or lose a work permit because they need to change jobs. Many are migrant farm workers who in the past used to cross the boarder for harvesting and/or planting season and then go back home for the rest of the year, but the current border control has made that impossible, so they are forced to stay year around to preserve their farm jobs. Some are here because of their parents.

Do some of the migrants hurt US jobs or salaries? Possibly so. Do they hurt them as much as automation or shipping manufacturing oversees? Not nearly as much.

Take for instance what car automation is going to do: within the next 20 years(plus or minus), every single taxi driver, truck driver, bus driver, etc. is going to lose their job. We are talking millions! We should be seriously worrying about it, and trying to figure out what to do. But banning car automation, considering that 30,000+ people die each year due to car accidents (and many more are seriously injured) and automation will greatly reduce these numbers, it is clear automation will be a huge benefit to everyone.
 
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America needs to encourage more lllegal immigration. Illegal immigrants work harder and have a reduced crime rate compared to native-born citizens.

When an immigrant - legal or illegal - moves into your neighborhood, the crime rate goes down.

How do we solve the problems of native-born citizens, with their high crime rates and low economic productivity? How can we get them to be more like illegal immigrants?
 
I have a very fundamental question - why don't all of these hard working, intelligent, creative "dreamer types" stay in their country and

FIX THEIR COUNTRY instead of coming over to ours? We did it, why can't they?

Let those "tired / poor / yearning to be free" stay home and create their utopia there.

No "We" didn't do it. Our ancestors did it. You did absolutely nothing except be born at the right place at the right time.

Not everyone was born with the advantages you take for granted, so can't blame them for trying to ensure their kids have a better life.

I'd much rather hire a hard working immigrant instead of anyone who thinks they are entitled due to the coincidence of their birth place.
 
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No "We" didn't do it. Our ancestors did it. You did absolutely nothing except be born at the right place at the right time.

Not everyone was born with the advantages you take for granted, so can't blame them for trying to ensure their kids have a better life.

I'd much rather hire a hard working immigrant instead of anyone who thinks they are entitled due to the coincidence of their birth place.

Stupid response - ok - our ancestors did it, why can't they? AND BTW - we did do it - I've worked for over 50 years and have contributed all that time. I was born into a good system and did my part to grow it.
 
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Hillarous post. I've met many immigrants who feel that the buck stops at them, just because they were lucky to have a relative whis a citizen and brings all his family and their cousins over they are better than dreamers and border crossers and other 'lesser people', and they feel the urge to kiss up to 'the real Americans' (read: descendants of immigrants) thinking that by this they earn their acceptance. Well guess what? You won't.

Those crying to kick out dreamers and close borders to refugees are only working their way to the Legal's; hate knows no limit, just read what happened in Kansas to the poor Indian guy who got shot to death in a bar. No, he wasn't seikh or mistaken for a Muslim, it was because he's Indian.

You do realize people of all races are killed simply for their race even including white people. So your Kansas story contributes nothing to this story. I can find examples of hate for every situation.
 
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