Tim Cook Says 250 Apple Employees Are 'Dreamers' as Donald Trump's Decision on DACA Nears

[dogslobber]

I happen to know somebody who was brought here at a young age and is undocumented. And you know what? All her connections and family are here. Her friends are here. Her entire life is here. Sending her back "home" would be sending her to a strange land that she does not know. She will suffer unreasonably for it.

She is here through no fault of her own. Why in the heck should we punish her for that? Nothing against her parents, but they're the ones who broke the law. Should we blame the child for the crimes of the parents? Not to mention that they came here seeking a better life because her country is a total **** show.

Then it’s her family who have put her in the predicament you describe and isn’t the fault of the US people.

Now, spare a thought for a family split up because the parent has to wait outside the USA to immigrate legally, by not queue jumping and by not stealing social services such as schooling from the tax payer. Why should an illegal alien get to stay when those who have to wait outside to immigrate legally can’t suddenly vault a fence?
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They are young adults (mostly) who were brought here by their parents at a young age—far too young to understand the nuances of immigration law—and have established lives here and little/no established lives “back home.” Many are college students by now, and many are STEM majors, meaning they’re going to be far from “functionally useless tax burdens.”

It's a sticky wicket but Obama was wrong to meddle in their lives by giving them hope of becoming legal then really doing nothing to cement that policy. You have an executive order that could be rescinded by a follow on president. Allowing DACA was in effect allowing for a temporary amnesty and by the sounds of it that's about to expire. Immigration laws rip families apart but it's the rule of law or we have anarchy. DACA recipients should be angry with their parents for bringing them here in the first instance, not with the USA for expiring it then requiring them to obey the immigration laws of the land.

 

[jonblatho]

It's a sticky wicket but Obama was wrong to meddle in their lives by giving them hope of becoming legal then really doing nothing to cement that policy.

Oh.

 

[gugy]

Sending away kids and young adults who basically spent their entire lives in the US and are law abiding citizens is just a crime. But, it's red bloody meat for Trump's base. So, I will not be surprised to see this happen.

Trump is losing everyday more supporters but His base will never leave him no matter what he does or what is uncovered about him. No wonder he needs so many rallies so his ego can be satisfied.

America is in a sad state of affairs.

 

[Naaaaak]

Everyone who screamed "TRUMP IS NOT MY PRESIDENT!" now wants Trump to be the President for all these illegals.

Why do leftists want to inflict Trump upon these people? How come they want someone better for themselves?? Racist left.

Do the humanitarian thing. Send them to someone better. Send them back to their President, Enrique Peña Nieto.

 

[jerwin]

but it's the rule of law or we have anarchy.

Are you quite sure that you understand what it is meant by "rule of law"? You probably don't.

 

[iChrist]

I'll say this right at the onset: Tim Cook needs to give his left liberal political pandering since November 2016 a bloody effing break. I'm an immigrant from India myself, I currently work for Apple from Germany, I have family in the USA, and before Tim blindly starts defending Dreamers, he needs to read this: https://cis.org/Mortensen/DACA-Gran...mitting-Crimes-While-Abandoning-Their-Victims.

I support some of President Trump's policies and I believe that DACA should be reformulated from the ground up instead of being nullified.

Having said that, Tim Cook of late hasn't ceased downright disgusting me. We get it that Tim is a die-hard Hillary Clinton fan but he just can't seem to be able to keep his head out of politics.

KKK, Nazis, white supremacsists are vile, demented creatures—there's no defending ANYTHING they stand for. But where are Cook's Twitter condemnations and fundraising against rabidly hateful and intolerant leftist groups like Antifa, who (quite literally!) burn down every single free speech rally at college campuses without a single consequence?

What happens to his voice when Islamists openly urge for a Jewish genocide in America in the name of "freeing Palestine"?!

Where is this coward when cop-killing BLM groups conduct riots, vandalize local businesses, loot, destroy for months in a row during the 2-term presidency of a black man!?

In which hole in the ground does Tim Cook hide when rabid feminists take the stage—physically or on mainstream media—and demand the systematic suffering of men, especially white males in America?

As a brown man that has seen plenty of these pseudoliberals in my own country, there's nothing worse than a duplicitous, hypocritical COWARD with connections to influence, and tons of cash to spend toward their own agenda.

Tim, take your private jet and come see the state of Germany after it took in 3 million undocumented immigrants. Roam around Düsseldorf for a while, then take a flight to Paris and then drop in at Rome after that. Maybe what you will witness will help you SHUT your mouth and have you consider focusing on your goddam job again.

LOL. Good thing you have universal healthcare in Germany so you can get some high blood pressure meds. Getting angry at successful people exercising free speech is bad for your health.

How long did it take you to type that? And "rabid feminists"? What does that have to do with dreamers? lol

 

[usarioclave]

To be fair, it's unclear if the iPhone 1.0 could have been made in the US because the engineering and assembly were really tightly linked. The US just couldn't really manufacture stuff at that level of precision/scale/iteration. Heck, it was hard for Foxconn to do it.

 

[Digital Dude]

I used to be proud to be an Apple consumer for multiple decades. Gone are the days of innovation, quality control, and ease-of-use. The company that I once loved is nothing more than a platform for social experiments and iPhones. With each passing day, I see more and more similarities to the movie 'The Circle.'

 

[Urban Joe]

New iphone 1,000.00.
The look on Tim Cook's face...pricless.

 

[0388631]

This is very sad. I have a friend who does this (name calling and drawing one's character into question as a way to stop conversation) and it does nothing but make me think less of him.

Sounds like a smart guy. And he is right. In fact, you're lucky to have such a rational friend. You've made zero effort in the past to correct anyone when they spoke of Hillary, including in this thread, in bad light. Yet to chose to point out a factually correct issue of POTUS, including the disgusting and vile things he's said in the past. You've chosen to be silent until my post. Ridiculous.

Trump is a garbage human being. He is not a true Republican. He is a charlatan much like the current GOP. As a GOP voter, he does not represent the true values of the GOP and he and much like him have made it the party of asshats. There's no sugar coating it. Even without all his decisions as POTUS, just his behavior and how he treats people makes him a POS.

Next time you want to get up on your high horse, consider who you're defending and if they're worth the effort.

Don't expect me or other voters, left or right, to defend that man or be nice in how we describe him. He's made ******** effort in being respectable to others, and few Trumper's have made an effort to rein in their commentary of Clinton. I don't like the woman either, but I'm not going to bother spending 10+ months still whinging about her when she lost the election. 10+ months later and some in PRSI have what I'd call an infatuation with the woman.

 

[hulugu]

I'm not implying anything. I'm calling them what they are - ILLEGAL. Why you feel it's ok for them to break the law is beyond me.
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The term you're looking for is anchor baby

I don't traffic in vague, inaccurate pejoratives.

Yes, the immigration officers have the power and authority to decide on a case by case (i.e. individual) basis, who may pass the gate. DACA did an end run of these protocols by granting a blanket pass to an entire group based on the premise that they self-declared as "children". We then saw the ridiculous spectacle of CBP asking a twenty-something man his age, and getting "de diecisiete" as the answer.

DACA didn't create an end-run, it created a priority segment just as other priorities and deferred action programs already existed under the INA.

Moreover, people can't "self-declare" as children for DACA. Instead, they have to prove to USCIS that they:

...

1. Were under the age of 31 as of June 15, 2012;
2. Came to the United States before reaching your 16th birthday;
3. Have continuously resided in the United States since June 15, 2007, up to the present time;
4. Were physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making your request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS;
5. Had no lawful status on June 15, 2012;

DACA applicants have to submit documentation that they were under 31 in 2012 and came to the United States before their sixteenth birthday.
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I have a very fundamental question - why don't all of these hard working, intelligent, creative "dreamer types" stay in their country and

fix their country instead of coming over to ours? We did it, why can't they?

Let those "tired / poor / yearning to be free" stay home and create their utopia there.

Because DACA recipients came to the United States before their 16th birthday, and a large number of them were brought to the United States as very young children, which means for most of them the U.S. is their country.

What we do now will inform the behavior of foreign human beings not just for "today", but for generations to come. If we reward their parents' lack of action to actually LOOK AFTER their children and ensure that they properly sought citizenship, then we'll just have more of the same: People coming in and doing NOTHING to assimilate. It may sound cruel, but we should not reward them if we don't want a repeat.

What evidence do you have that DACA recipients are "doing nothing to assimilate." Arguably, DACA recipients are some of the most assimilated people in the United States. They speak English and a huge number are either in school or have already attained higher education, including master's degrees. Compared to the background population, they are more educated than the average American.

...Letting them stay would be like rewarding their parents for bad decisions and ongoing bad parenting. Letting them stay would also reward the Congress by allowing them to sidestep the hard work of enacting real and true immigration reform.

Punishing nearly 800,000 people as a way to spank Congress might be the most harebrained reason to rescind DACA.

 

[Naraxus]

I don't traffic in vague, inaccurate pejoratives

I don't either. They're not, "undocumented", "poor human beings", "immigrants" or whatever other clever little term the Left wants to use to justify their being here illegally.

They are illegal aliens and anchor babies and nothing more. Every one of them should be rounded up and deported over the border they snuck across. End of story.

 

[hulugu]

I don't either. They're not, "undocumented", "poor human beings", "immigrants" or whatever other clever little term the Left wants to use to justify their being here illegally.

They are illegal aliens and anchor babies and nothing more. Every one of them should be rounded up and deported over the border they snuck across. End of story.

First, it's clear that you don't understand what the word pejorative means.

Second, they are not anchor babies, because that implies, inaccurately, that DACA recipients can "anchor" a family to come to the U.S. This is not how the DACA program works and your inability to understand the basics of the program would be appalling, but I'm driven to distraction by your bizarre instance that "poor human being" and "immigrant" are "clever little" terms.

The DACA recipients are literally flesh and blood human beings. They are also immigrants. That's a legal and social term.

They are human beings.
They are immigrants.

Undocumented is a goofy term, I agree. And, I'm not really bothered by the legal term, illegal alien. From the POV of immigration law, there are two binaries—citizen and alien. Among aliens, there are legal and illegal aliens.

Your apparent focus on the legality is a myopic obsession that doesn't reflect the reality of U.S. immigration policy.

 

[Zaqfalcon]

So I clicked on the DREAM Act wiki link in the article and was then directed to the Selective Service System; whereby all males in the US are required by law to be registered in order to enable any reintroduction of conscription!

What the actual?! The US blows my mind with its hypocrisy.

 

[hulugu]

So I clicked on the DREAM Act wiki link in the article and was then directed to the Selective Service System; whereby all males in the US are required by law to be registered in order to enable any reintroduction of conscription!

What the actual?! The US blows my mind with its hypocrisy.

The DREAM Act was a proposed bill that was never passed by Congress. DACA was an executive directive put in place by President Obama.

As for selective service, yep, that's a long established part of U.S. law. One of the interesting wrinkles in U.S. law is that an unauthorized immigrant can serve in the U.S. military, but must apply to get citizenship. Some former military members have been deported, despite their service.

 

[StarShot]

Aren't all Americans illegal immigrants in a way? Why was it okay hundreds of years ago? Hypocrites.

Laws buddy...

New speak illegal aliens = undocumented immigrants = immigrants
illegal aliens = dreamers I dreamed I won the Power Ball, but I didn't
anchor babies = ??? the constitution says if they're born here, they're natural born citizens, but that doesn't grant the parents who came here illegally, the right to stay with their anchor babes

 

[Zaqfalcon]

The DREAM Act was a proposed bill that was never passed by Congress.

Yeah I got that; I was just stunned at the requirement for, and existence of, registration for Selective Service. It's like deciding that sending children out to sweep chimneys is deplorably barbaric and banning it, but continuing to manufacture tiny handled brushes to fit their little hands, just in case you change your mind in the future and need to get your chimney fixed up.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

I'm sorry, but when I see this:

I think,
"Combovers gone wrong..."

 

[prowlmedia]

The highlighted portion of your response makes you a FASCIST - shut down free speech that you don't agree with.

And BTW - we don't need anymore tired / poor /masses of people - the globe is overpopulated. They need to stay in their country and FIX THINGS.

And BTW#2 - I see you post as being from (or in?) London. Believe we had a problem with people from across the pond taxing us w/o representation and telling us how to run things. We solved that problem in 1776 when we kicked those tyrannical asses out of here and sent them home. The lesson does not appear to have stuck with you.

Hoho. You are funny little man. You literally called me a Fascist in BIG BOLD RED letters... then told everyone to stay in their own countries. The comment was a statement on how utterly off track the thread had become and I myself am party to that.

The globe is FAR from bing over populated. SOME cities are over populated. You know that EVERY person on earth could live in a city the density of NYC that is 100km square.

Watch this:

( Though I suspect you won't as he is one of those pesky blasphemous Scientists )

Agree with the 1776 comment. But then again you live in a country NOW where your vote may be worth 3.6 times LESS than someone in another state. How Backward is that?

Oh and I'm Irish. I live in another country. I've also lived in USA, Canada, Australia, South Africa, Namibia, China, India, Iraq and Russia. But I expect the though of that would send you crying into your very small pillow dent.
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This quote is so full of well ........ nonsense.

There are factories all over the US with American machinists and tool maker. Most of the chinese labors is manual hands just assembling pieces. Its amazing how Intel manufactures the overwhelming majority of their chips in American fabrication plants and then send them to asia to be put into the ceramic pack blocks (cheap low skilled labor). You make generalized negative shots about Americans and then do the opposite about illegal immigrants. They aren't all hard working and they don't all contribute to the degree you think.

My son worked landscaping summer AND worked at Starbucks to pay for school. Yet he is one of those "lazy Americans".

Meanwhile 1/3 of violent criminals in federal prisons are illegal immigrants.

Nice try - but you whiffed on that post.

Nice Try. But as 35 year Electronics Fabrication Engineer myself I know more that you. Have you been to Foxconn, Flextronics, Samsung, Fujikura and about 20 more Electronics manufacturers in China alone. Have you Advised USA, South African and UK companies on Tooling and staffing?

I am happy your Son worked landscaping and making Coffee. Good lad. 3 gold stars.

Prisoners. inject them with a biotag and export them home then. What have Dreamers who are working got to do with that... which is the point of this Thread, eh?

 

[5105973]

Your mother got her permanent residency through marriage, she didn't earn it either. That's the easiest way to become a permanent resident and then citizen.

The only ways to immigrate legally to the US are:

1. Through family - either you married a US citizen, or your parents are US citizens
2. Through employment - despite all the hate H1B visas get, its extremely difficult and costly to get an H1B visa, after a certain period you can upgrade to permanent residency and finally citizenship
3. Through the green card lottery - its random and benefits some countries more than others
4. If you have an extraordinary skill - thought leader on your field, or famous celebrity/sports person
5. Through investment - if you invest $1 million and create 10 jobs in the US you can qualify for citizenship

Out of all these options the easiest is by far marrying a USC.

I believe you can also earn citizenship through service in our armed forces, too, under certain circumstances. We also grant refugee status to people who seek it and meet the requirements, but that is not easy to get. Anyway...

I said she had to prove her fitness, not earn it. There's a difference. Basically it's passing a vetting process. She had to meet very stringent criteria, demonstrate a certain level of proficiency in English and study American history and civics and pass test questions on these subjects, though she didn't have to do a harder form of the test due to her age. She was also interviewed. I think she also had to address questions about her immunizations.

She had to submit dates and reasons for travel outside of the US within certain time frames and all club and political affiliations had to be declared. It went on and on, it was very detailed information she had to provide. My background was subject to some scrutiny, too, but I was not investigated. I can't remember for sure, but I think if she had any social media presence, which she doesn't, she'd have to answer questions about it.

No, it's not "earning" per se and I never claimed it was, though I suppose her years of effort to learn English, American history, and acclimate and embrace our culture and ideals counts for something. I said it was a convoluted process. It involved a multitude of legal forms that conflicted with each other, requiring us to hire an attorney to ensure she didn't wipe herself out of the process by fulfilling the requirements of one form while contradicting the requirements of the other. It was a long, arduous process that needs to be reformed to be more comprehensible without lawyers.

I haven't really commented on the plight of the "Dreamers". That's a topic too complex and delicate to be solved on a tech forum. I just think illegal immigration brings such high costs and dangers to our country and is very exploitative of the people who immigrate illegally and lands them in all sorts of inhumane conundrums, such as the Dreamers are going through now, that I fail to see how it is progressive to give unequivocal support to illegal immigration. I favor strong reforms that broaden opportunities, not tossing all laws aside as if there had never been a reason to have them.

 

[tgara]

They’re not illegal if they qualify for the DACA scheme as that made them lawful when Obama enacted it.

What you're failing to comprehend is that Obama's order was illegal when it was issued since he did not have the authority to essentially change the law as Congress wrote it, which is what his EO did. Therefore, the consequences of that illegal order have no effect. The issue must be decided and act on by Congress, not the President. Trump's approach to this is the right one -- put the onus on Congress to fix the problem they've been playing footsie with for years.

 

[Col4bin]

I'll say this right at the onset: Tim Cook needs to give his left liberal political pandering since November 2016 a bloody effing break. I'm an immigrant from India myself, I currently work for Apple from Germany, I have family in the USA, and before Tim blindly starts defending Dreamers, he needs to read this: https://cis.org/Mortensen/DACA-Gran...mitting-Crimes-While-Abandoning-Their-Victims.

I support some of President Trump's policies and I believe that DACA should be reformulated from the ground up instead of being nullified.

Having said that, Tim Cook of late hasn't ceased downright disgusting me. We get it that Tim is a die-hard Hillary Clinton fan but he just can't seem to be able to keep his head out of politics.

KKK, Nazis, white supremacsists are vile, demented creatures—there's no defending ANYTHING they stand for. But where are Cook's Twitter condemnations and fundraising against rabidly hateful and intolerant leftist groups like Antifa, who (quite literally!) burn down every single free speech rally at college campuses without a single consequence?

What happens to his voice when Islamists openly urge for a Jewish genocide in America in the name of "freeing Palestine"?!

Where is this coward when cop-killing BLM groups conduct riots, vandalize local businesses, loot, destroy for months in a row during the 2-term presidency of a black man!?

In which hole in the ground does Tim Cook hide when rabid feminists take the stage—physically or on mainstream media—and demand the systematic suffering of men, especially white males in America?

As a brown man that has seen plenty of these pseudoliberals in my own country, there's nothing worse than a duplicitous, hypocritical COWARD with connections to influence, and tons of cash to spend toward their own agenda.

Tim, take your private jet and come see the state of Germany after it took in 3 million undocumented immigrants. Roam around Düsseldorf for a while, then take a flight to Paris and then drop in at Rome after that. Maybe what you will witness will help you SHUT your mouth and have you consider focusing on your goddam job again.

BRAVO! Take a bow, man, brilliant!

 

[cgsnipinva]

Are you quite sure that you understand what it is meant by "rule of law"? You probably don't.

Please explain.

 

[Tiger8]

I was wondering where the extreme-right-wing conglomerate came from, then I realized that this was a front-page thread, and they always seem to appear in droves on those.



This is one thing they certainly don't consider. You see these guys consistently say "deport them all!!", and one even said to execute them (!!!), but you never hear them support going after the people who employ them. You know...the reason they are actually coming here. They come here because American business owners give them money to come here and work. Yet, they want to go after the workers and not the employers.

But, they're in for a rude awakening once they realize what those jobs actually entail. Of course, they may very well not care.

Thank you! They would never go after the businesses simply because they have strong lobbies and they can easily bought them out thanks to things like 'citizens United'. Chiquita made headlines a couple of years back for supporting gangs and drug cartels to protect their business interests, what did they do to them? And Not only big evil companies, many small to medium farms here in America use illegal immigrants and make them work and live in terrible situations, we let them get away with it, because no politician wanted to be said that s/he went after small businesses.

 

[deeddawg]

They’re not illegal if they qualify for the DACA scheme as that made them lawful when Obama enacted it. It sounds like a scheme equivalent to a temporary work permit that has to be constantly renewed. If Trump cancels the scheme then it will expire on a certain date and Apple would have to terminate their US based employment.

Strictly speaking, DACA didn't make anyone "not illegal" -- at it's core it is an executive order to not enforce the laws in the case of those who meet certain certain criteria.

It is the legislative branch that has the power to create and modify laws, within the scope set by the Constitution. As such, it is Congress who can impart true legal status on those fitting the DACA criteria.

Some would say that the DACA program was actually unconstitutional; as a formal directive to ignore the law it effectively violated the Constitutional duty of the President to "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed"