Upgrading 2013/2014 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by maxthackray, Mar 1, 2017.

Thread Status:
The first post in this thread is a WikiPost, and can be edited by anyone with the appropriate permissions.
  1. jackqueenking macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2018
    #4101
    Its most definitely because of the cost, I looked them up online and they're wicked expensive for what they give. They would certainly consume more battery power but then again the Macs that were designed to use these drives take that into consideration when attempting to output 10hrs+ of usage on a single change. I don't think they would be any more efficient than something like an 8200 pro or intel 760p since these already use 0.6W at idle and are some of the lowest powered drives on the market. You will however get hibernate issues on pre 2015 models even with the polaris SSD since the problem at hand is the NVME protocol support so no it sure as hell isn't worth it to blow that kind of money on a polaris drive. Even for someone who has a 2016-2017 MBP with an SSD that isn't soldered to the motherboard it would be more beneficial for them to upgrade using an aftermarket drive, they have NVME support and the battery capacity to handle it.
     
  2. Earl Urley macrumors 6502

    Earl Urley

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    #4102
    If you live near a MicroCenter, you can get the Inland Premium M.2 NVMe drive for $119.99.

    https://www.microcenter.com/product...80-pcie-nvme-30-x4-internal-solid-state-drive

    Show them this coupon: https://instore.thread.co/retailmenot/microcenter.com/offer/XR5LE4ZL3NC7JNZU5ZL6OSUCJM

    For an additional $5.00 off, brining the total before tax to $114.99. So, a 1 TB SSD for $115!

    Already have this in my Late 2013 rMBP with the Sintech B adapter and it works great.

    You could also order it through their Web Store, but they have some weird checkout process that looks for your address from a known database and if it isn't in there, they will just tell you to go to the nearest MicroCenter that has the part in stock.
     
  3. aphirak macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2019
    Location:
    Bangkok
    #4103
    I did bug report. The apple development said "No, there is no plan to support NVMe based SSDs internally on legacy systems. We consider this issue closed."
     
  4. Colin0317 macrumors regular

    Colin0317

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2009
    #4104
    Can anyone help me with this?

    Thanks
     
  5. Audit13 macrumors 601

    Audit13

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #4105
    Look at the first post for the commands.
     
  6. zjummx macrumors newbie

    zjummx

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2019
    #4106
    Thanks to the authors and participants of this thread. I have a Late-2013 13" MacBook Pro Retina, 8GB + 256G, and the SSD was broken recently. I found this discussion, and went for a WD Black SN750 1TB NVMe M.2 drive + short Adapter, and they work perfectly! Read and write bandwidth almost doubled, no obvious thermal issue (web surfing + office suite).

    As for the sleep wakeup issue, I did my test (all with SMC/PRAM cleared) for your reference:
    1. OSX 10.13.6 High Sierra
    a) With default pmset settings, can't wake up after sleeping overnight. Just a blank screen, no sound, no display. I had to force reboot by long pressing the power button.
    b) With recommended pmset settings (hibernatemode 0 standby 0 autopoweroff 0), no sleep issue but battery drains 6% overnight (60% -> 54%)
    c) Tried hibernate mode 25, but got the same sleep issue as a).

    2. OSX 10.14.4 Mojave
    a) With default pmset settings (hibernate mode 3), my MacBook Pro CAN wake up normally after overnight sleep. When I open the lid, login window pops up instantly. No loading bar. But the battery still drains 5~6%.
    b) If I set hibernate mode to 25, and shorten the standby delay low and high to 1/2mins, the MacBook went into hibernate mode normally. And when I open the lid, I can hear power up sound (duang~) twice, then Apple logo with loading bar. Everything went back normally.

    So I am thinking maybe Apple did something to improve the NVMe sleep compatibility in Mojave, but not on the BootROM (because the bootrom version didn't change after I installed Mojave). The NVMe SSD is still draining more power during sleep, but I think it's more of a problem with the NVMe flash drive itself (higher sleep current in low power mode).
     
  7. zjummx macrumors newbie

    zjummx

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2019
    #4107
    Regarding the effect of 'standby' 'hibernate mode' 'standby delay*' parameters of pmset command, here is what I got from my tests:
    (On fresh new Mojave, battery powered, Late-2013 MacBook Pro Retina 13", WD Black 1TB NVMe SSD)
    1. Standby = 1, hibernatemode=3, standby delay low = 1(sec) high=1(sec). close the lid for a few minutes to make sure it settles down completely. when I open the lid, I saw black screen, then twice 'duang' sound, then apple logo with loading bar.
    2. Change hibernatemode to 25. Got the same result.
    3. Change hibernatemode to 0. No loading bar, login interface showed up instantly.
    4. Standby = 0, hibernatemode=3/25. No loading bar, login interface showed up instantly.

    Here below is my understanding, please correct me if I am wrong:
    1. When you close the lid, your MacBook enters 'sleep mode' immediately. Which means display off, CPU/RAM/Flash still powered but in low power state.
    2. If standby = 1, a timer will be enabled. When the preset delay time is reached (low for low battery and high for high battery power), your MacBook will enter 'standby mode' which is supposed to be a lower power state than 'sleep'. Depending on the 'hibernatemode' setting, you enter 0=similar state as 'sleep', 3=safe sleep(a memory image is written to disk but memory is still powered), or 25=full hibernate (a memory image is written, then power down)
    3. If standby = 0, hibernatemode and standbydelay* are ignored. Force hibernation when battery power is very low.
     
  8. dobrink macrumors member

    dobrink

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    #4108
    What is this supposed to mean. What if people would want to upgrade their MB 2013-2014, or iMac 2013-2015 storage with 1TB/2TB original Apple SSDs which are NVMe... And all this done by an authorized Apple personnel?
    By not implementing legacy systems support (which is as simple as decompressing the NVMe dXE driver and including it into the bootrom's firmware updates), do they mean that those supper expensive drives will be with sleep issues just because Apple does not want to lose money by giving that NVMe support to the public?
     
  9. owbp macrumors 6502a

    owbp

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Location:
    Belgrade, Serbia
    #4109
    Best thing to do is everyone who has "legacy" MBP's with replaced SSD to submit the same bug report.

    The MacPro(09-12) guys did the same thing on several occasions, and now they have NVMe boot support, among other things. And that's a BIG win, since NVMe booting on LGA1366 motherboards is non-existent in PC world.
     
  10. souko macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    #4110
    I have set hibernate mode to 25 and standbydelaylow 1800 and standbydelayhigh 10800. Somoene knows, please, why my Mac did not go to hibernate after 5 hours of not using?

    lidwake 1

    autopoweroff 1

    standbydelayhigh 10800

    autopoweroffdelay 28800

    proximitywake 0

    standby 1

    standbydelaylow 1800

    ttyskeepawake 1

    hibernatemode 25

    powernap 0

    gpuswitch 2

    hibernatefile /var/vm/sleepimage

    highstandbythreshold 50

    displaysleep 4

    sleep 4 (sleep prevented by sharingd, useractivityd)

    acwake 0

    halfdim 1

    tcpkeepalive 1

    disksleep 10
     
  11. jackqueenking macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2018
    #4111
    This is pathetic, its typical of Apple to perform such a stunt. Not happy with your current MBP and can't find Apple OEM parts to upgrade -> buy a new and more recent mac for 2k. Oh look those new macs have soldered SSD and Memory so if you cheap out the first time you're screwed, better buy a new mac if you want more memory or space since you can't modify the one you bought already. They consider systems legacy after 5 years and so those systems don't get updated anymore.

    Here in Canada they are apparently pushing for a law that will force companies to provide support and not discontinue products because people have realized that these products can last well beyond the manufacturers EOL date, this is the same reason why iPhone sales have declined, because they are so damn expensive so people try to hold on to their phones for longer than 2 years but eventually apple stops providing updates.
     
  12. Audit13 macrumors 601

    Audit13

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #4112
    I don't think any such law will pass any time soon. There are a lot of issues facing the Trudeau government as well as the upcoming election.

    Apple Canada, based on my own experience, will not upgrade any SSD for a MacBook after the unit has been sold. They will replace like for like while under warranty; otherwise, they will not do anything for you.
     
  13. jackqueenking macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2018
    #4113
    Correct, but now its soldered so even if you wanted to do it yourself you couldn't. Also yes Trudeau is taking a lot of heat, maybe it will pass one day or maybe it will go province by province, who knows. But if it does pass it would be glorious.
     
  14. gilles_polysoft macrumors regular

    gilles_polysoft

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Location:
    Tours (France)
    #4114
    You have not seen but Polaris drives have already been tested for a while (as far as post #23 in this thread).

    They figure in the tables of post #1 with the ref. SM0512L / MZ-KKW5120/0A2
    (all NVMe drives tested have a 512 GB capacity so that comparisons are on a equal basis).

    The SM0512L consumes a lot during writes (5W) but has a very low idle consumption (0.3W) so in average Polaris are very good at perfs/power consumption, although they are the worst regarding perfs/price...
     
  15. halexber macrumors newbie

    halexber

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2019
    #4115
    Bad news for me, sx8200 pro died after a week, bad luck I think because all posts here and out here said it was reliable. I could ask Amazon for a replacement, but I was wondering another brand like Sabrent. Any suggestion?
    Thank you for all your advice.
     
  16. jackqueenking macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2018
    #4116
    Same thing happened to my regular sx8200, i switched it for an intel 760p, haven't noticed a difference but into seems to have the more robust drive.
     
  17. halexber macrumors newbie

    halexber

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2019
    #4117
    intel 760p here in Spain is a little bit more expensive almost twice as Sabrent. Does anyone know for sure how reliable is Sabrent? I have read a lot of o comments in Amazon.com, but have my doubts?
    Thank you for your prompt response.
     
  18. RedTomato macrumors 68040

    RedTomato

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Location:
    .. London ..
    #4118
    Inform amazon ASAP and get a replacement. My 1TB SX8200 has been fine for several months in my heavily used daily driver MBA 2013.

    Components fail on a bathtub curve. Either they fail immediately (or almost so) or they’re fine for years before failing.
     
  19. The_Moves macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    #4119
    I have the long SinTech adapter and mine flexes too. I imagine the bed does put some stress on the connector, but i'm not sure how much. I was considering cutting the long adapter down to make it a "short" adapter. But input from others would be appreciated.

    SMART doesn't work

    Yes FW update from Windows, i know my MyDigitial SSD BPX requires Windows and complete reinstall.
     
  20. TokMok3 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    #4120
    Great performance! Thank you!
     
  21. x34 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    #4121
    and i wont buy a new MBP for another couple of years then.
     
  22. rbmanian75 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    #4122
    hi
    i am trying to upgrade mid 2014 MBP. trying to choose between corsair 510 2tb 362 euros and sabrent rocket 2tb 308 euros. which is a good choice in terms of endurance and performance.
     
  23. djangoreinhardt442 macrumors member

    djangoreinhardt442

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    #4123
    They are essentially the SAME SSD but sold by different manufacturers
    Pick the one with the better warranty.
    "The Sabrent Uses the Phison E12 with Toshiba's 64L 3D TLC NAND, like many other drives: Corsair MP510, MyDigitalSSD BPX Pro, Addlink S70, and Seagate BarraCuda/FireCuda 510"

    Here is a discussion (above quote is from there) on the Sabrent from Reddit.
    User /NewMaxx sure sounds like he knows what is talking about

    https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/anwfj2/ssd_sabrent_1tb_rocket_nvme_pcie_m2_2280_ssd/

    DO read the FlowChart from NewMaxx here, GREAT READ!!!

    https://www.reddit.com/user/NewMaxx
     
  24. dobrink macrumors member

    dobrink

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    #4124
    Could you please explain in detail how you did the bug report (by email, phone, or other...), what reasoning did you provide for them to do something about the NVMe support, and who exactly the reply was from?
    This is in order for other people to be able to repeat the bug report, but with changing the parameters, so possibly the outcome could be more positive. As, for example, planning to upgrade MBP's storage to 1TB/2TB Apple certified Polaris NVMe SSDs. I am from Europe and here are plenty of certified Apple stores that would perform the service, so the profit of one such upgrade still goes to Apple, and there is no logic that they won't offer firmware support for these procedures. (of course that is only the version of the story that we present to them, we won't use Apple's upgrade services, or their SSDs, we just need the NVMe support implementation).
     
  25. gilles_polysoft, May 2, 2019
    Last edited: May 2, 2019

    gilles_polysoft macrumors regular

    gilles_polysoft

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Location:
    Tours (France)
    #4125

    I don't want to be pessimist, but I already submitted the two following bug reports back in 2018 :
    - bug report #43005090, submitted on August 7 2018, regarding wake up from hibernation with NVMe drives on 2013-2014 models
    - bug report #43023110, submitted on August 8 2018, regarding BootRom updates not working with NVMe drives on all 2013-2015 models, which is a security issue.


    As I am a manager of an authorized Premium Service Provider, I did talk about those two bug reports to my local apple representatives.
    They did try to help, and Apple Developper relations did ask for more informations (in august 2018)
    I then did provide more informations (sysdiagnose reports, and I also explained that as for hibernation, only decompressing the NVMe DXE driver solved the problem).


    Nothing moved since (it has been 9 months ago).
    The current updates don't provide NVMe uncompressed DXE driver, and the BootRom update security issue is still there with NVMe drives.


    Note that I properly mentioned Apple NVMe drive (SM2048L and AP032) in the bug report (I myself use on a daily basis a SM2048L for 2 years, since summer 2017 !).

    Maybe I should even not have mentionned other tiers SSDs to not deserve the purpose of the bugreport.
    I also can give and ship Apple NVMe AP032 drives (I have plenty in spare) to anyone who want to make tests and eventually fill bug reports...

    The answer given to user "aphirak" doesn't give lot of hope.


    As for comparing with what occurred with the Mac Pro 5.1, I'm not sure.

    I was the first to mod a logic board to include NVMe support into (in march 2018), but I never submitted bugreports and have no clue why Apple did include NVMe driver in the BootRom of the Mac Pro.

    It could be by pressure of the users, but I'm not sure.

    But may either be a totally unrelated thing :

    Apple is used to support booting a mac from the drive of another Mac in Target mode.
    In order to do that, they regularly update BootRoms to let Target Mode support new devices.

    It's pure supposition from me, but Apple may have included the NVMe DXE driver in the BootRom of the 2013-2014 macs (and also in the Mac Pro) *only* in order to support booting on another device in target mode (being it a 12" MacBook with NVMe drive or a 2016-2018 MacBook pro).

    This would explain why they include NVMe support in the BootRom : they may not have done this in a way to support upgrade/replacements with NVMe drive, but only to support Target mode.




    Bug report #43005090
    summary:
    Since macOS 10.13, the BootRom of every supported mac have been updated.
    The update brought APFS boot support, but it also brought NVMe boot support, with a NVMe DXE driver incorporated in the BootRom.
    But on a limited number of Mac models, all models made between late 2013 and late 2014, the NVMe dxe driver include in the BootRom is incomplete and doesn't allow resuming from deep sleep / hibernation.

    Those 2013-2014 models hang at wake up from hibernation when they have a NVMe SSD as boot drive (being it an Apple genuine SSD, or a tiers Transcend 850 or OWC Aura pro X).

    Steps to Reproduce:
    - install in a 2013-2014 Mac any NVMe SSD of any brand: Apple SM2048L, AP032H, Transcend 850)
    - put it to sleep for more than 10800s

    Expected Results:
    the Mac should wake up.

    Actual Results:
    the Mac doesn't wake up. Backlight of the LCD display powers on, but system doesn't resume from hibernation.

    Version/Build:
    any macOS >= 10.13.0
    any BootRom

    Configuration:
    any Macintosh notebook with upgraded NVMe SSD from late 2013 to late 2014 :
    MacBookAir6,1
    MacBookAir6,2
    MacBookPro11,1
    MacBookPro11,2
    MacBookPro11,3


    Bug report #43023110
    Summary:
    If booted from a NVMe SSD only, some Macs made between 2013-2015 fail to update their BootRom at each macOS Update.

    Steps to Reproduce:
    - take a 2013-2015 with outdated BootRom and macOS (ex: MacBookPro11,4 with BootRom MBP114.0177.B00 and macOS 10.13.5)
    - it it is booted from an AHCI PCIe SSD, the update from 10.13.5 to 10.13.6 will update the BootRom to MBP114.0184.B00
    - if it is booted from any NVMe SSD (tested : AP0032H, SM2048L and tiers NVMe SSD like Transcend 850), the BootRom upgrade fails and BootRom stays outdated.


    Expected Results:
    BootRom should be updated at each macOS update, even while booted on a NVMe SSD. Here BootRom should be MBP114.0184.B00 after macOS 10.13.6 update.

    Actual Results:
    BootRom stays outdated (MBP114.0177.B00) after macOS 10.13.6 update while booted on a NVMe SSD

    Version/Build:
    macOS 10.13.5

    Configuration:
    MacBookPro11,4 with BootRom MBP114.0177.B00 and NVMe SSD
     
Thread Status:
The first post in this thread is a WikiPost, and can be edited by anyone with the appropriate permissions.

Share This Page