Upgrading 2013/2014 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe

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dobrink

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2013
98
41
Helsinki, Finland
Thank you for your detailed input. Could you guide us to the webpage/link/form for such bug reports? Perhaps we can do similar reports with only mentioning Apple NVMe drives being installed by Apple authorized service providers, and possible reclamations in case this issue isn't fixed in the near future.

How serious do they take such bug reports? Do they always reply? Did you have to write your device's serial number, or only state the model? There are people here from different continents, thus different Apple departments are going to handle the issues, so perhaps if we play it right, we can inspire a change.

Even if they give us the "Legacy" card again, we can be smart and switch the focus to similar issue that iMacs face. iMacs 27" Late 2015 also have the NVMe dXE driver compressed and this causes inability to wake from normal sleep, thus they have to always use hibernation, or they crash. Those iMacs are NOT legacy, they are 1.5 - 3.5 years old.

P.S.: Can you give us the names of other Apple NVMes (like your SM2048L and AP032), preferrably high capacity 1-2TB, so that we can complain that we paid €800 for the drives and €200-300 for the installation and they have issues waking up.
 
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gilles_polysoft

macrumors regular
Jul 7, 2017
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Thank you for your detailed input. Could you guide us to the webpage/link/form for such bug reports? Perhaps we can do similar reports with only mentioning Apple NVMe drives being installed by Apple authorized service providers, and possible reclamations in case this issue isn't fixed in the near future.
Bug reports are private to Apple.
I reported the ID and content of my bugs reports in my previous post for informative purposes : anyone can submit such a bug report.
But I don't suggest to report an issue with an Apple NVMe drive if no Apple NVMe drive was really used : it would be lying and it would deserve the purpose...

How serious do they take such bug reports? Do they always reply? Did you have to write your device's serial number, or only state the model? There are people here from different continents, thus different Apple departments are going to handle the issues, so perhaps if we play it right, we can inspire a change.
It would be a great idea to submit more bug reports, provide they are done in a polite way.

Even if they give us the "Legacy" card again, we can be smart and switch the focus to similar issue that iMacs face. iMacs 27" Late 2015 also have the NVMe dXE driver compressed and this causes inability to wake from normal sleep, thus they have to always use hibernation, or they crash. Those iMacs are NOT legacy, they are 1.5 - 3.5 years old.
Only macs from late 2013 to 2014 have the issue of not being able to hibernate on a NVMe drive and wake up from hibernation (at least in HighSierra, it seems Mojave behaves differently).
On every mac from 2015 the NVMe DXE driver is uncompressed and no mac from 2015 have the issue of hibernation wake up nor battery drain (iMac 27" late 2015 included).
iMacs 4K and 5K from 2015 work natively perfectly with any NVMe drive, including tiers M.2 drives (I purchased some of the last 27" iMac 5K 2019 and put 1TB WD Black SN750 in them and, wow, this just work perfectly).

P.S.: Can you give us the names of other Apple NVMes (like your SM2048L and AP032), preferrably high capacity 1-2TB, so that we can complain that we paid €800 for the drives and €200-300 for the installation and they have issues waking up.
The Polaris Apple NVMe SSD are named like that : SM0512L, SM1024L, SM2048L
But again I strongly don't suggest at all to submit false bug reports...
 

dobrink

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2013
98
41
Helsinki, Finland
How did you get to do a private bug report to Apple? Did it give you a "Report problem" button after your MacBook crashed waking from hibernation, or is there such option within a normal OS operation, or was it through their website?
In those private bug reports that you did you have to input the device serial number, the new SSD's serial number, or both?

Furthermore, a bug report should be considered, not as lying, but as a preemptive measure for all the people who would actually spend the €400 or €800 for an Apple SSD upgrade and come out disappointed afterwards. Apple are doing so wrong, by withholding the already existing driver, so that saying "Hey, I bought an expensive Apple certified SSD, and it doesn't work" is close to nothing.

I am sorry, but I have to correct you regarding the iMacs. ALL iMacs dated Late 2012 - Late 2015 listed in the thread I started last year crash when waking from normal sleep, including my 27" Late 2013 and my 27" 5k Late 2015. If hibernatemode is different than 25 you get "Your Mac restarted because of a problem", if hibernatemode is 25, standby is 1, you get the "question mark folder". Only with hibernatemode 25 and standby 0 one can get the drive working. This is far from how you described it -> "work natively perfectly with any NVMe drive". Noone has been able to get the normal sleep working in an iMac 27" 5k Late 2015, regardless of the SSD or adapter used, there are at least 5 confirmed reports on 2015 iMac in the 1st post of my thread I mentioned, all of them experience the same sleep issue. But if yours works, so let us know how you did it ;)

And yes, the issue is caused by the same NVMe dXE driver which after dumping the rom with dosdude1's tool it is very much compressed in the Late 2013 model, and I am almost sure that the situation is the same with the Late 2015 models because they behave the same and crash the same way (unfortunately, I cannot confirm it because dosdude1's tool is not configured to work with 2015 iMac and crashes, so if you can tell me another way to verify that my iMac 2015's NVMe dXE driver is compressed, let me know).
 

rbmanian75

macrumors member
Mar 6, 2009
36
1
They are essentially the SAME SSD but sold by different manufacturers
Pick the one with the better warranty.
"The Sabrent Uses the Phison E12 with Toshiba's 64L 3D TLC NAND, like many other drives: Corsair MP510, MyDigitalSSD BPX Pro, Addlink S70, and Seagate BarraCuda/FireCuda 510"

Here is a discussion (above quote is from there) on the Sabrent from Reddit.
User /NewMaxx sure sounds like he knows what is talking about

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/anwfj2/ssd_sabrent_1tb_rocket_nvme_pcie_m2_2280_ssd/

DO read the FlowChart from NewMaxx here, GREAT READ!!!

https://www.reddit.com/user/NewMaxx
Thank you for the reply. Since they are all the same and sabrent gives 5 years warranty when we register in their site i purchased sabrent because of the price without tax 254 euros for 2tb. thanks.
 
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jackqueenking

macrumors regular
Nov 1, 2018
109
47
I to filed a bug report at bugreport.apple.com

They asked for a system diagnostics zip file that I generated using a series of commands. I told them that both NVME Apple OEM drives, and aftermarket drives such as OWC, Intel 760p and sx8200 have issues waking up from hibernation. I l should probably mention the thread OWC larry was commenting on that is linked in page 161.

Still it has been over a month since they asked me for a diagnosis and no response.
 

gilles_polysoft

macrumors regular
Jul 7, 2017
174
426
Tours (France)
How did you get to do a private bug report to Apple? Did it give you a "Report problem" button after your MacBook crashed waking from hibernation, or is there such option within a normal OS operation, or was it through their website?
In those private bug reports that you did you have to input the device serial number, the new SSD's serial number, or both?
I just filled the usual bug report at http://bugreport.apple.com (it ask you to log with your apple ID)
Those bug reports are not public unfortunately.
You don't need to put any private information but Apple may ask some system report / log / etc.

Furthermore, a bug report should be considered, not as lying, but as a preemptive measure for all the people who would actually spend the €400 or €800 for an Apple SSD upgrade and come out disappointed afterwards. Apple are doing so wrong, by withholding the already existing driver, so that saying "Hey, I bought an expensive Apple certified SSD, and it doesn't work" is close to nothing.
Honestly I don't think a lot of people do buy NVMe Apple SSD from Apple : AppleStore genius never offer such upgrades, and when I say never it is NEVER..
And no authorised service center is allowed to sell parts as an upgrade.

So I'm sure that no good, constructive discussion with Apple could start by telling them "hey, this NVMe Apple SSD doesn't work in my mac" if "this" Apple NVMe SSD has never been legally sold by Apple...

Don't get me wrong : if you really have a problem with a NVMe Apple SSD sold by an Apple authorised service provided or an AppleStore then Go ! Go for a complain.

Otherwise I strongly suggest to not lie, and just tell that you bought a NVMe SSD from the black market or a legal, tiers SSD like the OWC Aura Pro or the Transcend 850, or again any of the M.2 NVMe SSDs discussed here... You have the right to do it.

Don't get me wrong again on my intentions : I would love to see Apple fixing the two problems with NVMe upgrades.
From a personal point of view I'm totally 100% behind "right to repair" legislation, 100% behind the possibility of doing self upgrades (I published in 1999 a guide to upgrade apple RAM with ram from PC..)
I spend a huge time here discussing about upgrades and sharing my knowledges.
I take a risk by being here talking here about "unauthorised" upgrades without hiding my name nor my company name.
I take the risk to loose my agreement as an authorised premium service provider, and I assume it.

I simply advise you to submit honest bug reports and not lye. It wouldn't help anything here.

I am sorry, but I have to correct you regarding the iMacs. ALL iMacs dated Late 2012 - Late 2015 listed in the thread I started last year crash when waking from normal sleep, including my 27" Late 2013 and my 27" 5k Late 2015. If hibernatemode is different than 25 you get "Your Mac restarted because of a problem", if hibernatemode is 25, standby is 1, you get the "question mark folder". Only with hibernatemode 25 and standby 0 one can get the drive working. This is far from how you described it -> "work natively perfectly with any NVMe drive". Noone has been able to get the normal sleep working in an iMac 27" 5k Late 2015, regardless of the SSD or adapter used, there are at least 5 confirmed reports on 2015 iMac in the 1st post of my thread I mentioned, all of them experience the same sleep issue. But if yours works, so let us know how you did it ;)

And yes, the issue is caused by the same NVMe dXE driver which after dumping the rom with dosdude1's tool it is very much compressed in the Late 2013 model, and I am almost sure that the situation is the same with the Late 2015 models because they behave the same and crash the same way (unfortunately, I cannot confirm it because dosdude1's tool is not configured to work with 2015 iMac and crashes, so if you can tell me another way to verify that my iMac 2015's NVMe dXE driver is compressed, let me know).
It's true that late 2013 to Mid 2014 iMacs (iMac14,1 iMac 14,2 and iMac 14,3) do have a compressed NVMe DXE driver and crash when waking from sleep on a NVMe drive, I have also get the same behaviour.
But this is not the case with the iMac 15,1 and later : they do have the full, uncompressed NVMe driver at least on the BootRom from Mojave, and all the iMac 5K I have tested, when they have their BootRom up to date, behave properly in hibernation.

You can check it by extracting, during an update, the FimrwareUpdage.pkg package from your "/Library/Updates" folder
Then open this FimrwareUpdage.pkg with your favorite pkg tool (I use "Pacifist"), extract the "EFI Payload" folder from it.
You then have access to the binaries of all BootRom, and can open then with UEFI Tool and check the size of the NVMe driver.
 

dobrink

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2013
98
41
Helsinki, Finland
I certainly understand why Apple refuses to acknowledge or fix the issue with hibernatemode and nvme drives from a support position. Apple has never supported the use of third party components inside their 2013 to 2015 MacBooks and doubt they will start now.
The thing is that by refusing to support the 3rd party NVMes they also deny support for their own NVMes.
Why did they decompress the NVMe dXE driver for 2015+ MBs and 2017+ iMacs, and left it compressed for the other models? Yes, newest MB are with soldered storage, but the new iMacs and 2015-2016 non-touchbar MBs anyone can modify...
 
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RedTomato

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Mar 4, 2005
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The guide on the first page of this thread looks amazing! I have added a link to the Amazon UK page for the Sintech adapter. I would like to thank @gilles_polysoft , @owbp , and @MacXperte for all their hard work.

Has anyone noticed that Sintech have now added photos of our guide to their Amazon sales page! Cheeky!
https://www.amazon.com/Sintech-Adapter-Upgrade-2013-2016-2013-2015/dp/B07FYY3H5F/ (second and third photos)

In the third pic, Sintech quote this post by @sman789 : https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/upgrading-2013-2014-macbook-pro-ssd-to-m-2-nvme.2034976/page-120#post-26999648

I think these pmset settings are based on out of date info, which Sintech also repeat on their website: http://eshop.sintech.cn/ngff-m2-pcie-ssd-card-as-2013-2014-2015-macbook-ssd-p-1139.html
 
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jackqueenking

macrumors regular
Nov 1, 2018
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The thing is that by refusing to support the 3rd party NVMes they also deny support for their own NVMes.
Why did they decompress the NVMe dXE driver for 2015+ MB and 2017+ iMacs, and left it compressed for the other models? Yes newest MB are with soldered storage, but iMacs anyone can modify...
I am not saying you're wrong but the issue with that statement is that the Apple NVME drives aren't sold to the public and also did not ship with any other model other than the computer you bought it with so technically it shouldn't even be there in the first place.

I did some research on the internet and it seems apple only released NVME support because people who bought OWC Aura Pro drives were complaining that you couldn't boot or install. This is when firmware updates came from both OWC and Apple to fix such problems by upgrading to high sierra otherwise there would have been no NVME support unless your Mac came with one out of the box. In doing so they screwed up the release on the 2014 models. If apple released a fix just for OWC they should really push to have this hibernation issue fixed so they can properly advertise their drives, especially the new x2 that came out last month.

It is also quite possible that they want to retire the 2014/2013 models which is why they wont support it, its a typical apple move to force you into buying a new mac with the proper hardware all originally from apple. There's a good chance we might not even get support for the upcoming macOS this fall.. :(
 

sman789

Customer Support
Staff member
Dec 25, 2007
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Richmond, VA
The guide on the first page of this thread looks amazing! I have added a link to the Amazon UK page for the Sintech adapter. I would like to thank @gilles_polysoft , @owbp , and @MacXperte for all their hard work.

Has anyone noticed that Sintech have now added photos of our guide to their Amazon sales page! Cheeky!
https://www.amazon.com/Sintech-Adapter-Upgrade-2013-2016-2013-2015/dp/B07FYY3H5F/ (second and third photos)

In the third pic, Sintech quote this post by @sman789 : https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/upgrading-2013-2014-macbook-pro-ssd-to-m-2-nvme.2034976/page-120#post-26999648

I think these pmset settings are based on out of date info, which Sintech also repeat on their website: http://eshop.sintech.cn/ngff-m2-pcie-ssd-card-as-2013-2014-2015-macbook-ssd-p-1139.html
That's cool, hopefully it'll help future modders that's looking to upgrade. I haven't had any issues for months.
 

Audit13

macrumors 601
Apr 19, 2017
4,388
1,104
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
The thing is that by refusing to support the 3rd party NVMes they also deny support for their own NVMes.
Why did they decompress the NVMe dXE driver for 2015+ MBs and 2017+ iMacs, and left it compressed for the other models? Yes, newest MB are with soldered storage, but the new iMacs and 2015-2016 non-touchbar MBs anyone can modify...
The differences are that Apple nvme drives are certified for use in their MacBooks without the use of an adapter and they run custom Apple firmware which is closed source.

Could it also be that pre-2015 MacBooks and iMacs never shipped with nvme drives?

I don't know if all of this is 100% true but I haven't read anything to the contrary.
 

gilles_polysoft

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Jul 7, 2017
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The differences are that Apple nvme drives are certified for use in their MacBooks without the use of an adapter and they run custom Apple firmware which is closed source.

Could it also be that pre-2015 MacBooks and iMacs never shipped with nvme drives?
There were never any MacBook Air not MacBook Pro retina 2013-2015 shipped with "blade" Polaris NVMe drive (SM0256L, SM0512L etc)
Even 2017 MacBook Air models (which are still sold today !) are equipped with AHCI "blades" drives (no wonder were Apple get them...)

The only Macs which did shipped natively with "blades" NVMe drives are :
- late 2015 21" and 27" iMacs with Fusion drive (which ship with small "AP032" drive which has 64GB MLC programmed as full SLC...)
- late 2015 and later 27" iMacs 5K whose "full" SSD option is a "Polaris" Samsung NVMe SSD (SM052L / SM1024L etc)
 

Audit13

macrumors 601
Apr 19, 2017
4,388
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada
There were never any MacBook Air not MacBook Pro retina 2013-2015 shipped with "blade" Polaris NVMe drive (SM0256L, SM0512L etc)
Even 2017 MacBook Air models (which are still sold today !) are equipped with AHCI "blades" drives (no wonder were Apple get them...)

The only Macs which did shipped natively with "blades" NVMe drives are :
- late 2015 21" and 27" iMacs with Fusion drive (which ship with small "AP032" drive which has 64GB MLC programmed as full SLC...)
- late 2015 and later 27" iMacs 5K whose "full" SSD option is a "Polaris" Samsung NVMe SSD (SM052L / SM1024L etc)
Thank you for this information.
 

dobrink

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2013
98
41
Helsinki, Finland
I just filled the usual bug report at http://bugreport.apple.com (it ask you to log with your apple ID)
Those bug reports are not public unfortunately.
You don't need to put any private information but Apple may ask some system report / log / etc.


Honestly I don't think a lot of people do buy NVMe Apple SSD from Apple : AppleStore genius never offer such upgrades, and when I say never it is NEVER..
And no authorised service center is allowed to sell parts as an upgrade.
Here in Finland the biggest Apple Service Providers are 1store, Tector and mCare, the first two of which are "Premium Services Providers" and the third is stated as "Authorised Service Provider". I am fairly certain that any of those will assist in replacing an original Apple SSD, regardless of the reason (drive failure or just an upgrade), regardless if it is in a MacBook or an iMac. I will confirm tomorrow, as I will contact them and ask for details about the service. I do not know though what replacement drive they are going to offer and this was the reason why I wanted to know the model of an Apple certified 2TB NVMe (or at least 1TB), so I can ask for this one specifically.


But this is not the case with the iMac 15,1 and later : they do have the full, uncompressed NVMe driver at least on the BootRom from Mojave, and all the iMac 5K I have tested, when they have their BootRom up to date, behave properly in hibernation.
I do not know from where you are getting your information and if you have actually tested the machines yourself, but I have a 27" 5k Late 2015 iMac here with ADATA SX8200 Pro 1TB, and I have just compiled you some evidence.

Just to clarify, the issue with iMacs is NOT with hibernation, but with normal sleep. The "natively perfect" operation is only for Late 2017 models (and 2019, as you described above).
iMac 2015.png
SX8200 Pro.png

This is what everyone gets when waking their Mac from sleep with settings:
-Hibernatemode 0 or 3
Problem 1.JPG
Problem 2.jpg

This is what everyone gets when waking their Mac from sleep with settings:
-Hibernatemode 25, Standby 1
Folder.JPG

Thus the only way to have a functional sleep with a 3rd party blade NVMe is to set:
-Hibernatemode 25, Standby 0

In my opinion, the issues with MB's hibernate and iMac's normal sleep are all caused by the same driver that controls the states of the NVMe SSD drives. This is compressed for MB 2013-2014 and for iMacs 2012-2015, meaning Apple does not want that a NVMe drive would function flawlessly in those machines. My idea is to file complaints in order to provoke something to change. Because Apple certified NVMe drives exist and machines that can use those are still supported 2014 MacBooks (are discontinued when?) and 2015 iMacs were sold up until 1.5 years ago, I will confirm what Apple Service Providers are allowed to install (at least here in Europe).
 

Inge83

macrumors newbie
Dec 21, 2018
14
6
Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Hi,

I do not know from where you are getting your information and if you have actually tested the machines yourself, but I have a 27" 5k Late 2015 iMac here with ADATA SX8200 Pro 1TB, and I have just compiled you some evidence.
As far as I can see, you only provide a guess that a) the NVMe driver is compressed and b) this driver is the root cause of your issue.
However, you might be on the right way by blaming the driver - according to https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201634 the Late 2015 5k 27 iMac is iMac 17,1. This one seems to have a somewhat different NVMe driver than both ones discussed in this thread, because its file size neither matches the compressed one from the 2013/2014 MacBooks nor the uncompressed one from the 2015 MacBooks (see screenshot below - file I used was IM171.fd from the recent mojave installer).

Screenshot 2019-05-02 at 21.58.52.png


Interestingly the same iMac model from Mid 2015 seems to have a driver more similar to the ones of the 2015 MacBooks (at least when comparing sizes, although not matching exactly, IM151.scap)...

Screenshot 2019-05-02 at 22.02.45.png



Because Apple certified NVMe drives exist and machines that can use those are still supported 2014 MacBooks (are discontinued when?) and 2015 iMacs were sold up until 1.5 years ago, I will confirm what Apple Service Providers are allowed to install (at least here in Europe).
Here in germany they won't sell and mount you an original apple ssd as an upgrade. Replacement as a repair for broken parts will always be carried out with the same model as purchased with the mac itself. Some authorised apple dealers like gravis additionally sell and mount third party drives as upgrades, like the transcend ones, but never original apple drives. Therefore I highly doubt that you will have any luck with your reasoning given above (although of course I would like to see official NVMe support from apple for our macs as well...).
 
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gilles_polysoft

macrumors regular
Jul 7, 2017
174
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Tours (France)
Here in Finland the biggest Apple Service Providers are 1store, Tector and mCare, the first two of which are "Premium Services Providers" and the third is stated as "Authorised Service Provider". I am fairly certain that any of those will assist in replacing an original Apple SSD, regardless of the reason (drive failure or just an upgrade), regardless if it is in a MacBook or an iMac. I will confirm tomorrow, as I will contact them and ask for details about the service. I do not know though what replacement drive they are going to offer and this was the reason why I wanted to know the model of an Apple certified 2TB NVMe (or at least 1TB), so I can ask for this one specifically.
[Edit] : Sorry, I'm not sure that you will get any upgrade with Apple parts in that way.

Service center are aimed at providing service with the exact parts which originally shipped in your mac. They have to deal with plenty of things.
I can't give details but upgrades with original Apple parts will never occur in the genius bars in Apple Store, and to my knowledge it doesn't exists for many reasons in authorised service providers.

There were long time ago a time where Apple did provided upgrades parts as a service (I can remember 2.5" SCSI 800MB hard drives upgrades instead of 160MB, simply there weren't any "low capacity" drives left).

You may find that some authorised service centers (like me) may provide, at their own risk, upgrades with tiers parts.

Sometimes it show really bad : I can't coun't how many colleagues I'w saw changing hard drive with tiers new SATA III HD or SSD on unibody MacBook Pros without changing the defective SATA cable (or lowering SATA speed to SATA II on buggy controllers). They weren't even aware of what a CRC error was.
They gave back computers to customers making hundreds of CRC errors, being slow, giving bad experience to the user.

I even saw last week a customer of a colleague whom iMac was equipped with a... Fusion Drive of 2 SSDs, one being the 32 GB NVMe Apple SSD and the other a 1TB SATA samsung 860 QVO, without trim enabled for good measure...
I mean, there is no sense to do such a fusion drive and mainly forgetting trim on a QLC drive is a bad idea at least.
The system did lag of course and they even didn't know how to not create a fusion drive.

Hopefully you will find exceptions...

That's ok, do your own experience.
Ask them and get back to us to tell us what is answered.

I do not know from where you are getting your information and if you have actually tested the machines yourself, but I have a 27" 5k Late 2015 iMac here with ADATA SX8200 Pro 1TB, and I have just compiled you some evidence.[...]
I tested NVMe drives on nearly all mac models made from 2013-2019 (including all rMBP, all MacBook airs, all Mac Pros 5.1 and 6.1, all mac mini 7.1), and testify that I have tested a 27" iMac 15.1 whom I don't remember if it's a late 2014 or a mid 2015 model.
But I admit I didn't focused at all on sleep on this particular model. I can do further tests.

Speaking of evidence, please can you post :
- your Bootrom version
- photos of your M.2 to apple 12+16 adapter ?

Because you may or may not know, but in this present thread, in late 2017, we faced the same exact behaviour you describe. And there is two different things :
- folder question mark at waking up from sleep were due to wrong Chenyang adapters
- black screen at waking up from sleep on 2013 models were due to the Bootrom

[EDIT]: dobrink show me photos of the adapter and it is a sintech "A" adapter but rev.2, which has the proper wiring. We need to investigate on wirings on the logic board of the iMac I guess...

In my opinion, the issues with MB's hibernate and iMac's normal sleep are all caused by the same driver that controls the states of the NVMe SSD drives. This is compressed for MB 2013-2014 and for iMacs 2012-2015, meaning Apple does not want that a NVMe drive would function flawlessly in those machines. My idea is to file complaints in order to provoke something to change. Because Apple certified NVMe drives exist and machines that can use those are still supported 2014 MacBooks (are discontinued when?) and 2015 iMacs were sold up until 1.5 years ago, I will confirm what Apple Service Providers are allowed to install (at least here in Europe).
Apologise if I'm wrong, but I think you do a wrong assumption here.
iMacs from the late 2015 (at least) didy originally shipped with NVMe drives (= the 24GB drive in the 1 TB fusion drive of the late 2015 iMacs was NVMe).

Also, you asked me how to check if a BootRom has the full NVMe driver or the compressed one. I explained it to you in my last post.
You will see that Apple includes the full NVMe driver at least from iMac15.1 : so at least your assumption that sleep with 2015 iMacs doesn't work because the NVMe DXE driver is compressed maybe shows wrong here. Please do by yourself the verification.

I suggest the problem you describe on the 2015 iMacs are mostly due to either outdated BootRoms or wrong adapters.
You may post here photos of your adapters I may help to clear it out.
 
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bowen1506

macrumors newbie
May 24, 2018
11
0
Hi all, I spent a lot of time reading this thread but only got information in bits and pieces...
I have an 2015 15' MBP. I am on the fence of buying an ADATA SX8200 pro 1TB to put inside. The thing is I care a lot about battery life so if someone has got this particular drive in their MBP can shed some light on how much the battery life decreases exactly?
Also would there be any long term stability issues? Like random crash, etc.
Thanks in advance!
 

Zeke

macrumors 6502a
Oct 5, 2002
507
1
Greenville, SC
I noticed a few people in here mentioning getting Windows 10 installed. I installed a Crucial P1 (512GB) SSD with the sintech adapter and am failing on the install of windows. It boots for the installer, but then after running through and restarting it gets to a "Your PC has encountered an error and must restart". I removed the drive and redid on the original with no issues. Has anyone had this experience and figured out how to fix it?

Thanks!

Edit: Just noticed first page has a bootcamp note. I don't know if it's the same as my issue but I haven't tried it yet. I'll give it a shot.
 

WaferGuy

macrumors newbie
Aug 22, 2017
8
2
I noticed a few people in here mentioning getting Windows 10 installed. I installed a Crucial P1 (512GB) SSD with the sintech adapter and am failing on the install of windows. It boots for the installer, but then after running through and restarting it gets to a "Your PC has encountered an error and must restart". I removed the drive and redid on the original with no issues. Has anyone had this experience and figured out how to fix it?

Thanks!

Edit: Just noticed first page has a bootcamp note. I don't know if it's the same as my issue but I haven't tried it yet. I'll give it a shot.
If you use Bootcamp to install Windows 10, you should not need to "boot from installer"!

I've managed to install Windows 10 with these steps: -

1) Download Windows 10 iso file. Do not use "1809" version! Current Bootcamp is not compatible with "1809" version. "1803" version works.
2) In MacOS, start Bootcamp,
3) Follow instructions to partition disk space for Windows using DiskUtility,
4) Follow instructions to complete the installation. System will restart.

I hope it works for you.
 

pappapeep

macrumors newbie
Apr 25, 2019
14
2
Hi all, I spent a lot of time reading this thread but only got information in bits and pieces...
I have an 2015 15' MBP. I am on the fence of buying an ADATA SX8200 pro 1TB to put inside. The thing is I care a lot about battery life so if someone has got this particular drive in their MBP can shed some light on how much the battery life decreases exactly?
Also would there be any long term stability issues? Like random crash, etc.
Thanks in advance!

I used a 660p from intel (2tb) and did a clean install because it was crashing from booting up from a dead battery. Now that I did a clean install from a USB installer (the internet recovery wasn't working either), it works great now, and I think I have the same or better battery life. Apparently, these drives have low power consumption! Also, in Blackmagic disk tests, I'm getting 1200/1500 read write speeds...
 

bowen1506

macrumors newbie
May 24, 2018
11
0
I used a 660p from intel (2tb) and did a clean install because it was crashing from booting up from a dead battery. Now that I did a clean install from a USB installer (the internet recovery wasn't working either), it works great now, and I think I have the same or better battery life. Apparently, these drives have low power consumption! Also, in Blackmagic disk tests, I'm getting 1200/1500 read write speeds...
I ordered the sx8200 pro 1tb from amazon. I am also deciding between a clean install or a clone from my current original Apple SSD. I wonder if cloning could lead to possible future headaches.....So I think I will do a clean install.
Hopefully the sx8200 plays well in my MBP 15 2015 in terms of battery life.
 

djangoreinhardt442

macrumors member
Apr 6, 2019
66
32
I ordered the sx8200 pro 1tb from amazon. I am also deciding between a clean install or a clone from my current original Apple SSD. I wonder if cloning could lead to possible future headaches.....So I think I will do a clean install.
Hopefully the sx8200 plays well in my MBP 15 2015 in terms of battery life.
If you look at first page, you can see the consumption of power at idle, at read and write

I have a 2015 rMBP mid 2015 too amd I had no problem with an HP ex 920 - that is the sister drive (older version of sm2262 controller) of the adata sx8200

It should work just fine.

I tried both methods: restore from backup and a clean install and didnt find a difference

But, i would do a clean install.
Also, performance can go way down, as you fill up the drive. Still a lot better than SATA

My 2 cents
 

Saili

macrumors newbie
Apr 17, 2019
2
1
Hellas
Installed INTEL 660p 1TB in a MBP 13" 2015 two days ago. Installation went fine (clean install). I used SINTECH long adapter.

No crashes or kernel panics during these two days.

Temperature feels a hair bit higher than before, but nothing to worry so far. Fans didn't kick out at all, although heaviest work I did, was photoshopping apart browsing, youtube etc (so nothing too demanding).

Sleep/hybernation... there is problem... started at 100% power and after two hours of watching webtv it was at 65%. Closed lid at 12.00 and at 06.00 went down to 40% (from 65%). Come back at home at 15.30 to see only 15% left.
I don't have statistics before upgrading disk, but for sure, when in sleep mode power loss was around 4-5% per 24h.

Even if these two days I install continuously new programs, I don't think this kind of battery drain has to do anything with indexing... I have to watch it and find a solution if keeps like that.
 

dobrink

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2013
98
41
Helsinki, Finland
I have reached the three biggest Apple-authorised Service Providers in Finland about a drive upgrade of my iMac 27" 5k Late 2015, originally with HDD. This is my message:

"Hello, I have an iMac 27" 5k Late 2015 with a 1TB HDD drive. Originally there was an option to purchase it with a 1TB SSD which I regret now that I did not do. It has lately got very slow and I would like to ask if your staff can help me to fix the problem. I know that there are newer 27" iMacs for sale, however, I do not see many differences from my model and I'd rather make an upgrade to my current Mac, even if it will be expensive. Do you have a pricelist somewhere, or can you tell me how much it would cost me the upgrade to 1TB, or 2TB SSD, preferably a new and fast NVMe (total with work included). I am willing to spend between €1000-1500 to have a quality NVMe SSD because speed is really an issue for me at the moment and is greatly delaying my work. Please also let me know how many days the service lasts as I cannot afford to give my Mac for very long, as well as to which of your offices should I bring the machine?"

And these are the responses (some follow-ups are still pending, and I will add them as they come in):

TECTOR - Apple Premium Service Provider

1st message
"Hello,
We could upgrade your iMac 27” 5k Late 2015 to 3rd party SSD drive. If you would like PCIE option wich connects streight to the logic board the speed will be R: 950MB/s - W: 950MB/s.
The biggest storage capacity 960GB SSD. Product (Transcend JetDrive 820 960Gt Flash SSD). The total cost inc. VAT24% part and service labour 648€.
There is possibility to change the HDD -> to SSD drive speed will be then SATA3 560/500Mb/s price 417€ inc VAT 24% part and labour 1TB SSD. Optional 2TB SSD will cost 708€.
Unfortunatly we don’t have PCIE SSD in stock and we order them for the customer only so the order time 1-2 weeks.
SATA3 SSD we have on stock streight away. Service period around 1-3 working days."

2nd message
"Our service policy allows to install only the part that has been purchased from our store. As a company we need to give a proper warranty for the part and service. Unfortunatly we do not have any other 3rd party option for PCIE express connection to your iMac. We could order the original SSD straight from Apple the price will be for 1TB Apple original SSD 1759€ inc VAT 24% part and labour."

3rd message
"Hello,
I think 3rd party SSD PCIE drive has the same speed unfortunatly not all PCIE SSD drive are compatible with Mac - computer. The link you provide from Amazon was an Apple original SSD drive and only that model has the specifit faster speed. Unfortunatly that’s all what we have - can order from our importer."



1STORE - Apple Premium Service Provider

1st message
"Hi,
We can upgrade your current iMac with following options:

1TB SSD 259 € (non-nvme)
3,5"->2,5" Adapter 29 €
Work 145 €
Optional data transfer 69 €
= Total 502 €

2TB SSD 550 € (non-nvme)
3,5"->2,5" Adapter 29 €
Work 145 €
Optional data transfer 69 €
= Total 793 €

We have 1TB SSD's in stock but there is approximately 2-4 weeks waiting time for 2 TB SSD's.
The service time is 1-2 weeks but for certain components the might be longer waiting time. Technician needs to open the iMac to make sure if there is a possibility to install a Nvme SSD (it's very specific between iMac models). It takes more work and is a bit pricier but you will be contacted by the technician about the costs."

2nd message
"Hi,
I tried to enquire the prices for nvme drives but only information the technician was able to give is that the work price will go up from 145 € to 199 €. They really need to see and open the computer before they can give any price information about the nvme drives."



MCARE - Apple Premium Service Provider for the years 2011-2014, 2016, 2019

1st message
"Hi,
Thanks for your message! Yeah those HDD are getting slower when gaining age. Of course your Mac is not old yet but still there is a huge difference in speed comparing to SSD.
I checked some price estimations for your iMac model if want to upgrade:
1TB SSD, price is 209€ (VAT inc.) + work 239€
2TB SSD, price is 419€ (VAT inc.) + work 239€
Those are only estimations and the real price can be given after diagnostics at our repair service. Still the price will be under your budget. :)
Repair time estimation is about 4 working days."

2nd message
"Hi,
Now afterwards the only upgradable option is SATA-port SSD unfortunately. For the spare parts order we need your iMac to us for the diagnostics that there is no other issues in your Mac that could decline the upgrade repair."



To sum-up, all of the above offered to replace the original HDD with a 2.5" SSD. Regarding the blade drive:
-Tector would order and install a 1TB Apple Polaris NVMe, as well as any 3rd party PCI-e drive providing they had it for sale, but now they only have Transcend JetDrive 820.
-1store wants to open the Mac in order to check for NVMe possibility, before they can make a price offer.
-mCare is afraid of touching the blade drive, but if I would ask the drive of a MacBook upgraded, they would definitely give me some PCI-e options.

I have sent them some follow-up questions and I can still send some more, so you guys can help me out of what you are interested in. All in all, we can safely conclude that Apple-authorised drive upgrade is possible, even for a unsupported machine like 2015 5k iMac, and therefore bug reports can contain sleep problems with the Polaris NVMe, as well as any 3rd party AHCI custom drives like Transcend JetDrive 920, and others that make issues (you can probably add more models here like OWC and so).


By the way, can you guys recommend me a solution (software or Terminal code) to maintain my MBP 15" Mid-2010's battery at 60-80% when plugged in as I am rarely unplugging it and my battery's capacity deteriorates quite quickly due to being "stored" at 100%. The battery 1-year-old and I am at hibernatemode 25, standby 0, because the Samsung Evo SSD can drain the whole battery overnight. It is interesting how the original 2.5" HDD consumes far less power than the 2.5" SSD, I guess that the bootrom does not support the power states of the SSD and thus it is always awake unless the Mac is in hibernation.
 
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