Verizon iPhone 5 Will Not Offer Simultaneous Voice and Data [Update: It Was A Hardware Decision]

[Macboy Pro]

Please don't feel bad for us!!! We are LOVING our six times more LTE coverage than all other networks & blazing speeds that your carrier couldn't catch up to in a year even if we stopped building out our infrastructure now..
I suppose it is unfortunate that this IMO minuscule detail will keep people on wack ass networks like AT&T. Seriously.. you'll take the independently ranked (consumer reports, jd power & associates) WORST network in the United States b/c their antiquated technology allows for the use of a single minor feature that the top rated network doesn't yet?? Well, P.T. Barnum put it best: there's one born every minute...

If you educate yourself about cellular, you would know that the fastest network is AT&T by twice as much. The largest 4G Network is AT&T and the AT&T 4G network speeds are comparable to Verizons Slow LTE network. So, if you want to be able to say you have "LTE" then, Verizon has good commercials and the largest "Slow" LTE network.

What you also may not realize is that these network providers leapfrog each other in technology. AT&T started late on their LTE network while they created the largest 4G network to completion. Pretty soon, AT&T will catch Verizon for LTE coverage and then Verizon will be hold the bag on the slower of the two equal size LTE network.

Bottom line is that Verizon has the antiquated network by far and this article proves it!

 

[Macboy Pro]

It's funny reading some of these comments about voice and date. Verizon 3G uses two different band frequencies, 1 for voice and 1 for data, (this is why they are the best in voice and data, there's no interfering with each other). AT&T 3G uses the same band frequency for both voice and data (this is why they suck in voice quality, and data speeds to much interfering with other users).

The reason why some of Verizon's phones can do both at the same time is because the manufacture of the phone (which is not Android as many people think, Android is just a Operating System, not a phone) installed extra chips and extra antennas. Why do you think Samsung phone's keep getting BIGGER? Extra chips and extra antennas, means more POWER (bigger batteries) which mean MORE space, which comes down to BIGGER SCREENS to make all this fit and work!!!

Apple is Apple and if Apple doesn't want to add that extra antenna, then they don't have to! Thats why their phones are sleek and sexy and thin and shiny!

Apple ROCKS!

I can't speak to your voice comments about AT&T other then no one I have ever talked to or in my own experience, has had issues with AT&T voice. Its common to whine on this forum about it, but the statistical data show that all the networks have very similar call drop rates. Its cellular and that come with mobility and switching towers, etc.

Your comment about data however are factually incorrect. Verizon's CDMA network is the slowest network in America. AT&Ts 4G network is the Largest in American. Verizons LTE is the largest "LTE" network and AT&T's LTE network is twice as fast as Verizon's LTE. You specifically mentioned the CDMA and 3G/4G (Non-LTE). Here is a sample of what Verizon provides you. Not sure how having two bands is helping their data speed.

iPhone 4S Speedtest.net #1 Midwest:
Verizon iPhone 4S: 1.26 Mbps download, .46 Mbps upload
AT&T iPhone 4S: 6.18 Mbps download, 1.50 Mbps upload

iPhone 4S Speedtest.net #2 Midwest:
Verizon iPhone 4S: .61 Mbps, .49 Mbps upload
AT&T iPhone 4s: 6.30 Mbps, 1.65 Mbps upload

iPhone 4S Speedtest.net #3 Midwest:
Verizon iPhone 4S: 1.01 Mbps download, .54 Mbps upload
AT&T iPhone 4S: 6.18 Mbps download, 1.68 Mbps upload

Bottom line again is that while Verizon started their older technology LTE network (1/2 the speed of AT&Ts), AT&T was completing their 4G network buildout. Now AT&T has the largest 4G network, significantly faster than Verizon. Now AT&T is building a LTE network. Obviously it is behind Verizon in buildout because they started later, choosing to finish the 4G buildout. The advantage is that AT&T is building a more advanced network that has twice the speed as Verizon's larger one.

My prediction (its kinda obvious) is that Verizon will start a new network that will be smaller (less rolled out) and faster then AT&T. This is how it works.

So when people rip on AT&T, it is a sign of just not understanding the mobility markets.

I have had AT&T for a decade and they have been nothing less than stellar in their performance and their customer service, even when I personally disagreed with a charge/bill.

 

[KPOM]

As usual, AnandTech (Brian Klug, to be exact) comes through with a detailed analysis of why this is the case.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6295/...-and-lte-or-evdo-svlte-svdo-support-?all=true

Interestingly, it appears VoLTE isn't supported yet, either, but only MetroPCS actually uses VoLTE, so maybe this will be added once the bigger carriers get with the program on that.

 

[jlc1978]

It blows my mind that there are still CDMA networks in the United States.

Why? The US market is big and I would estimate 90% of phone users never need a phone that works on another network so the underlying tech, as long as it meets their needs, is irrelevant. Since CDMA does that it continues to be used.

 

[KPOM]

Deal breaker for me. I use data and voice all the time

AT&T is an option, as will T-Mobile once the unlocked version is out and T-Mobile is done re-farming their network.

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It blows my mind that there are still CDMA networks in the United States.

Why? In the 1990s CDMA 2000 offered clear advantages over GSM (no annoying "buzzing" effect on land lines, faster data at the time, better spectral efficiency, which is important since our towers are more spread out here). Carriers aren't going to rip out all their old networks until they need to as it is very costly. Plus, 3GSM required lots of available spectrum because of the decision to require 5MHz channels vs. CDMA's 1.25MHz channels. The narrower channels let CDMA carriers like Verizon find more available space in the US' crowded airwaves, and build up a more reliable voice network than AT&T. If there was 12.5MHz of available space in 10 different 1.25MHz channels in an area, Verizon could have 10 channels of spectrum, while AT&T couldn't put any unless they had increments of 5MHz of available space in a given market. Often that meant that AT&T had a single up and down channel in one area while Verizon had several (and more space in total).

With LTE, smaller channels came to the GSM world. However, 3G is still needed in many cases for voice (until VoLTE becomes popular), and so 3G networks of all kinds will be around for years to come. Heck, only now are carriers starting to disable 2G networks.

 

[kemal]

This is what happens when you head designer has a fetish with aluminum. Apple have to design around the insanity of a radio device that can't have a sufficient internal antenna. Time for Ivy to go so Apple can produce technologically competent products. Oooooh that almost polished microcrystalline diamond cut edge will be so pretty to look at while I realize I can't look up a restaurant while talking about where to eat.

P.S. My Droid Razr does LTE and calls at the same time. Guess I won't get the iPhone.

 

[VenusianSky]

Summary: all carriers suck

 

[RichH]

Did you read any of the stuff posted here? I have to question who the moron is here,the issue isn't Verizon its Apple. The Verizon network is capable of this and has been for a while.

The right way to do this is voice over LTE and not a 4th antenna. When is Verizon going to provide voice over LTE?

 

[JerseyDoug]

First, I admit to not reading all the posts prior to this one.

Second , I am very disappointed, but will survive. No way am I moving 5 phones to AT&T.

Finally, I don't see this as Apple's fault. Apple designed a world phone. Most of the world doesn't use CDMA. Correct? Not sure why I would fault Apple for not changing their design just to satisfy a couple of US only providers.

Bottom line. It sucks.

 

[koigirl]

This is a design decision by Apple! I don't really understand the Verizon bashing?!? (I can't believe I'm actually defending a carrier!). Apple made a decision not to include a 3rd antenna for either cost or design reasons. Every other LTE handset on Verizon provides simultaneous voice and data. Wow, just wow.

 

[BriChi]

Nav?

So if I am on the phone, what happens if the Navigation needs to re-route? Are the maps all loaded on the phone or do they stream over the network?

 

[Medic311]

AT&T is an option, as will T-Mobile once the unlocked version is out and T-Mobile is done re-farming their network.

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Why? In the 1990s CDMA 2000 offered clear advantages over GSM (no annoying "buzzing" effect on land lines, faster data at the time, better spectral efficiency, which is important since our towers are more spread out here). Carriers aren't going to rip out all their old networks until they need to as it is very costly. Plus, 3GSM required lots of available spectrum because of the decision to require 5MHz channels vs. CDMA's 1.25MHz channels. The narrower channels let CDMA carriers like Verizon find more available space in the US' crowded airwaves, and build up a more reliable voice network than AT&T. If there was 12.5MHz of available space in 10 different 1.25MHz channels in an area, Verizon could have 10 channels of spectrum, while AT&T couldn't put any unless they had increments of 5MHz of available space in a given market. Often that meant that AT&T had a single up and down channel in one area while Verizon had several (and more space in total).

With LTE, smaller channels came to the GSM world. However, 3G is still needed in many cases for voice (until VoLTE becomes popular), and so 3G networks of all kinds will be around for years to come. Heck, only now are carriers starting to disable 2G networks.

in the 1990's, GSM wasn't mainstream in the USA yet. it was called TDMA.

while this isn't much of an issue now, the reason that Verizon always won during the coverage argument was while the carriers were updating all of their TDMA towers to GSM, Bell Atlantic Mobile merged with half a dozen other carriers to form Verizon and continued to expand CDMA coverage mid-west and west coast. the result was that by the time the TDMA carriers (Comcast Metrophone, then Cellular One, then Cingular, then AT&T again) had upgraded their TDMA towers to GSM, Verizon had nearly the entire USA blanketed in CDMA (minus the gaps that Verizon purposefully put in place due to profit studies).

in 2012, coverage area is not so much of an issue anymore.

the main beef that i have with GSM is the fact that GSM does not work well indoors. the buildings i work in are thick concrete, reinforced with rebar, and i'm no where near a window. that is GSM's achilles heel

 

[randymac88]

I can't speak to your voice comments about AT&T other then no one I have ever talked to or in my own experience, has had issues with AT&T voice. Its common to whine on this forum about it, but the statistical data show that all the networks have very similar call drop rates. Its cellular and that come with mobility and switching towers, etc.

Dude, I'm not sure where you live (of it it's actually under a rock), but AT&T voice is well-known to be terrible. There is not a single person I know who is on AT&T that likes it. It is muffled and there are tons of dropped calls. I suffered through three years with it and since moving to a CDMA network its a new day.

On AT&T I would get dropped on almost every single call, no exaggeration. Currently on Verizon since 4S launch: I have never had a single dropped call.

 

[Scrub175]

So if I am on the phone, what happens if the Navigation needs to re-route? Are the maps all loaded on the phone or do they stream over the network?

When I had a droid razr and on 3G network I still had turn by turn while in a phone call. Not saying it works with this application but somehow the razr could do both for nav on 3G.

I'm so heartbroken. I may pass. I've waited two years for a fully integrated LTE iPhone what's a few more.

Very disappointing. Plus still no new iMacs. Do we even matter to Apple anymore?

 

[the8thark]

A US editorial staff + a large portion of the readership in the US = most stories are going to be about the US carriers.

If you have information of what's going on in other countries, I would submit them as tips, they might get used.

I agree. US staff on the site = US centric news. If you want Non-US Apple news you have to find another website.

I and others have submitted many tips to this website and none of them have been used. So don't go believing your tips will be used.

 

[KPOM]

This is a design decision by Apple! I don't really understand the Verizon bashing?!? (I can't believe I'm actually defending a carrier!). Apple made a decision not to include a 3rd antenna for either cost or design reasons. Every other LTE handset on Verizon provides simultaneous voice and data. Wow, just wow.

It's design reasons. For the most part it enables them to keep the phone thin, cram support for as many LTE bands as possible (as Sprint and Verizon don't use the same bands), including Europe, and not add a third antenna which would be very difficult to do and be fraught with risk (they don't want another issue with antennas and death grips).

Perhaps they could have built in an internal antenna, and it is odd given that all other LTE phones on Verizon's network will have this feature, but I can see why Apple made the decision they did. It is an inconvenience but it is no worse than the 4S in that regard. For what it's worth, the Galaxy S3 won't roam on LTE networks overseas, and it is much bigger. Every manufacturer makes design decisions.

 

[BriChi]

When I had a droid razr and on 3G network I still had turn by turn while in a phone call. Not saying it works with this application but somehow the razr could do both for nav on 3G.

same here but the maps on droid are built in to the OS so it can reroute without hitting the network, curious what ios6 is about

 

[Scrub175]

same here but the maps on droid are built in to the OS so it can reroute without hitting the network, curious what ios6 is about

Good info. I wondered how they pulled it off. I'm real curious about JB, I may have to dust off the galaxy nexus and hook it up this weekend for a test run.

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I agree. US staff on the site = US centric news. If you want Non-US Apple news you have to find another website.

I and others have submitted many tips to this website and none of them have been used. So don't go believing your tips will be used.

I tipped droid life the verge story yesterday. They posted it and are still laughing over there.

 

[KPOM]

When I had a droid razr and on 3G network I still had turn by turn while in a phone call. Not saying it works with this application but somehow the razr could do both for nav on 3G.

I'm so heartbroken. I may pass. I've waited two years for a fully integrated LTE iPhone what's a few more.

Very disappointing. Plus still no new iMacs. Do we even matter to Apple anymore?

Google downloads the entire route when you enter it. You can lose cellular connection entirely and turn by turn will still work as long as you don't veer off course. I haven't heard how Apple is handling it.

If your choice is between a 3G iPhone 4S that lacks simultaneous voice and data, and a 4G iPhone 5, I'm not sure what good passing on it does, unless you go back to the Android route. I suggest reading the AnandTech article. It puts it into context. Every manufacturer has its reasons, and other phones make different compromises (larger designs). Do what's right for you, but if you want an iPhone I wouldn't let this hold you back.

 

[wiivile]

So does this iPhone 5 support VoLTE, if Verizon actives it sometime soon (aka before the release of the next iPhone)?

 

[KPOM]

First, I admit to not reading all the posts prior to this one.

Second , I am very disappointed, but will survive. No way am I moving 5 phones to AT&T.

Finally, I don't see this as Apple's fault. Apple designed a world phone. Most of the world doesn't use CDMA. Correct? Not sure why I would fault Apple for not changing their design just to satisfy a couple of US only providers.

Bottom line. It sucks.

Yes, that's exactly what it comes down to. Apple was able to make a single iPhone 4S, and just turn the CDMA radio on the Verizon/Sprint ones. This time, they had to make 2 to support all the LTE bands out there. The Verizon/Sprint version is really the global version with the CDMA radio turned on. That's why it also has the LTE bands for Europe.

The AT&T/Canada version removes the CDMA support and European LTE bands and replaces them with the LTE bands used by AT&T and Canadian telecoms. My guess is that they didn't want to make more than two versions, and that it wasn't worth it to make big design changes for the 5 just to support CDMA in the US when it may be a moot point next year for the 5S, as Voice over LTE may be out by then. Plus, we all know how Apple likes to keep one feature "in the back pocket" to spur purchases the next year. Perhaps that will be NFC, but for Verizon and Sprint it could be simultaneous voice and data. Remember that there are a lot of 4S owners on Verizon and Sprint who will skip the 5 and wait for the 5S as they have a year to go on their contracts.

 

[Scrub175]

Google downloads the entire route when you enter it. You can lose cellular connection entirely and turn by turn will still work as long as you don't veer off course. I haven't heard how Apple is handling it.

If your choice is between a 3G iPhone 4S that lacks simultaneous voice and data, and a 4G iPhone 5, I'm not sure what good passing on it does, unless you go back to the Android route. I suggest reading the AnandTech article. It puts it into context. Every manufacturer has its reasons, and other phones make different compromises (larger designs). Do what's right for you, but if you want an iPhone I wouldn't let this hold you back.

I like and trust AnandTech. I will check out the article but have read the important excerpts. I hate the limitation by the carrier in this issue in the past. I went with a 4S because of adopting the Apple ecosystem, but my main objective was to be on board with a fully integrated LTE Apple device to cover what ever situations may arise. The LTE iPhone was supposed to bridge that gap, and we find out a day later that bridge has a major roadblock that really was not addressed in the keynote. So in my eyes why reward Apple because they got most everything else right except one of the main features LTE would have solved for my personal usage? I know my meager $850 and change won't mean much on their multi billion dollar P&L statement, but at some point we the consumer have to take a stand...

 

[Kenetic0320]

I guess I won't be getting the iPhone 5 on Verizon (it will be Android if I switch to Verizon). I was thinking about switching to them after my contract is up.

I talk and surf quite frequently while on the phone. Especially if I'm talking via blue tooth or have someone on speaker. I'm sure for others it is not essential, but for me it's one feature I like.

 

[MN1974]

Verizon is ancient

Do Verizon people realize that the whole CDMA network is a cluster because is ancient?

The only reason for why manufacturers keep on releasing CDMA phones is because Verizon exists. The technology on their network is so old, but so big, that rebuilding it would be absurdly impossible. But until then, Verizon people will always have phones with limited functionality. Largest network, but ancient technology.

 

[Scrub175]

Do Verizon people realize that the whole CDMA network is a cluster because is ancient?

The only reason for why manufacturers keep on releasing CDMA phones is because Verizon exists. The technology on their network is so old, but so big, that rebuilding it would be absurdly impossible. But until then, Verizon people will always have phones with limited functionality. Largest network, but ancient technology.

Very true and that's why the LTE rollout and conversion to VoLTE is so important.