I’m glad they are changing the venue. I was getting bored of the park. Let’s see the rest of the world and how Delores and any other escaped cast members make out in the real world.
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Westworld (HBO) Discussion Thread
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I think a lot of people agree 100% with you including some of the actors.
Just starting Westwood, watched the first 3 episodes. I see where the story is headed and an intriguing aspect of making A.I. too human like.
However I have a question. I can see living your fantasy, including sexual fantasy, in a theme park filled with willing androids. But if there is no danger to guests, where is the thrill of a gunfight? If you instigate a fist fight, will anyone throw a punch back? Witnessing a story is one thing, but to be participating, it seems to me that the thrill would be experiencing some level of danger.
However I have a question. I can see living your fantasy, including sexual fantasy, in a theme park filled with willing androids. But if there is no danger to guests, where is the thrill of a gunfight? If you instigate a fist fight, will anyone throw a punch back? Witnessing a story is one thing, but to be participating, it seems to me that the thrill would be experiencing some level of danger.
Punches, yes. Weapons/guns hurt but don’t seem to wound. Yes, there’s a certain level of God-mode which would probably disappoint the most experienced of guests, but I think the average guest would prefer knowing they’re not in any actual danger (I know I would, lol).
Good luck! You’re in for a treat.
Punches, yes. Weapons/guns hurt but don’t seem to wound. Yes, there’s a certain level of God-mode which would probably disappoint the most experienced of guests, but I think the average guest would prefer knowing they’re not in any actual danger (I know I would, lol).
Good luck! You’re in for a treat.
So far I am enjoying it, the android management aspect is interesting, although the android (host) question sessions are becoming tedious, (how many times must they question Dolores?
), breaking the western story atmosphere which I really like, which is really good, although I realize they serve a narrative purpose in the story.There is room to speculate as to why headquarters don’t know immediately when any host violates their set limits while acknowledging the difficulty of this. Like how would they know that Dolores swatted a bug that landed in her neck? And I find it really interesting that Stubbs (the host clean up the mess guy) is always ready for a revolt, when he says, there is just one line of code that prevents them from tearing us apart, prophetic indeed.
The man in black (Ed Harris) who just walks all over androids, and does not seem to experience broken immersion when he is shot multiple times, while I realize he has some sinister agenda, or maybe he is just a little nuts or obsessed with some element of how the Park works. I initially mistook him for Yul Brenner’s role, the gunslinger in the original movie. I noted at headquarters after he killed a group of androids, it was asked if he should be slowed up, it was said that he gets whatever he wants, so I assume he is a billionaire who spends a lot of time in the park. No spoilers please as if he turns out to be something else.
Which brings up a logical element that is my speculation- what happens when a guest acts like my Grandson, in Red Redemption (video game), riding into a town and starts killing everyone, just for entertainment? I would imagine in a theme park like this, it would really disrupt the stories they have laid out for guests to participate in.
At least in Red Redemption, if you go overboard, they can actually kill your character, and you suffer whatever death penalty the game puts on you, requiring a start over at an earlier save.
My point is, I would think this kind of a West World theme park would really be dependent on responsible guest behavior not to overly disrupt the environment. Maybe a control that would prevent guests to go into homicidal killing sprees for fun, but this is what, even with an agenda, seems to be what the Man in Black is doing every episode.
What if you gun down an innocent host out of the blue? Wouldn’t, shouldn’t the sheriff be allowed to take you into custody? I think it would be more immersive if guests could be subdued, without serious injury of course.
Finally, I’m was not clear how the guns work in the park. But this article clears it up a bit with spoilers, but anyone who is familiar with the original movie, not really a spoiler: https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/westworld-guns-bullets-weapons-theories
...just think some futurist high tech yet to be invented.
I won’t say much but Dolores’ sessions are important to the story. Pay close attention.So far I am enjoying it, the android management aspect is interesting, although the android (host) question sessions are becoming tedious, (how many times must they question Dolores?
There is room to speculate as to why headquarters don’t know immediately when any host violates their set limits while acknowledging the difficulty of this. Like how would they know that Dolores swatted a bug that landed in her neck? And I find it really interesting that Stubbs (the host clean up the mess guy) is always ready for a revolt, when he says, there is just one line of code that prevents them from tearing us apart, prophetic indeed.
Stubbs (fantastically played by the oldest yet least famous Hemsworth brother) is Head of Security, so I imagine being ready for revolt is in his job description.
A lot happens behind-the-scenes and in the control room, and disrupted narratives can be reset quickly...The man in black (Ed Harris) who just walks all over androids, and does not seem to experience broken immersion when he is shot multiple times, while I realize he has some sinister agenda, or maybe he is just a little nuts or obsessed with some element of how the Park works. I initially mistook him for Yul Brenner’s role, the gunslinger in the original movie. I noted at headquarters after he killed a group of androids, it was asked if he should be slowed up, it was said that he gets whatever he wants, so I assume he is a billionaire who spends a lot of time in the park. No spoilers please as if he turns out to be something else.
Which brings up a logical element that is my speculation- what happens when a guest acts like my Grandson, in Red Redemption (video game), riding into a town and starts killing everyone, just for entertainment? I would imagine in a theme park like this, it would really disrupt the stories they have laid out for guests to participate in.
At least in Red Redemption, if you go overboard, they can actually kill your character, and you suffer whatever death penalty the game puts on you, requiring a start over at an earlier save.
My point is, I would think this kind of a West World theme park would really be dependent on responsible guest behavior not to overly disrupt the environment. Maybe a control that would prevent guests to go into homicidal killing sprees for fun, but this is what, even with an agenda, seems to be what the Man in Black is doing every episode.
What if you gun down an innocent host out of the blue? Wouldn’t, shouldn’t the sheriff be allowed to take you into custody? I think it would be more immersive if guests could be subdued, without serious injury of course.
All valid points of speculation, and while they may or may not be directly addressed by the end of the season, you’ll have a good idea of how the park runs. I’ll just leave it at that.
It’s all in the bullets. I don’t remember if it was explained in the show or on the website they created for the show (www.discoverwestworld.com - which I would avoid for spoiler reasons until you’ve seen season 2), but there’s tech in the bullets that allow them to connect to the same mesh network the hosts are on. They detect if they’re about to hit a host (in which case the host can be wounded/killed) or a guest, and will create an impact similar to being hit with a rubber ball or beanbag gun (should still cause some pain/bruising but won’t penetrate the skin). A guest shooting another guest will have the same effect (blunt impact pain but no bloodshed).
The interrogation of Dolores to determine if she is functioning normally reminded me of Bladerunner, trying to determine if a replicant is human or not. I mean if it is that complicated, they are obviously in over their heads.
Episode 5 Contrapasso is really picking up the tempo, so they can punch you! I am now officially sucked in. Clearly for the sake of realism, the creator has given the hosts way to much mental capacity.
Episode 5 Contrapasso is really picking up the tempo, so they can punch you! I am now officially sucked in.
Clearly for the sake of realism, the creator has given the hosts way to much mental capacity.
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Season 1 Episode 10 Final- An eye opener! This is much more of a complex story than the original Movie. I was disappointed that the love story bubble was popped. I’m on to Season 2!
Season 1 Episode 10 Final- An eye opener! This is much more of a complex story than the original Movie. I was disappointed that the love story bubble was popped. I’m on to Season 2!
Glad you're enjoying it. I won't give anything away, but watching season 2 I often found it hard to keep track of the character arcs and timelines. Alt Shift X on YouTube did a great job explaining each episode, as he did with Game of Thrones.
Spoiler for anyone intending to watch the series
What impressed the heck out of me for season 1 was how they kept it hidden from the viewer for 9.5 episodes that half of what we were watching is an extended flashback. What confuses the issue somewhat is that they are bringing in Dolores and Maeve in for analysis, and you think it is in direct response to present day, but these interviews could be 30 years ago, and in hindsight you are not even sure if it’s Bernard or Arnold conducting the interview!
One serious suspend disbelief required is how could Ford get Bernard into the organization, without anyone noticing he is Arnold’s doppelgänger?
What impressed the heck out of me for season 1 was how they kept it hidden from the viewer for 9.5 episodes that half of what we were watching is an extended flashback. What confuses the issue somewhat is that they are bringing in Dolores and Maeve in for analysis, and you think it is in direct response to present day, but these interviews could be 30 years ago, and in hindsight you are not even sure if it’s Bernard or Arnold conducting the interview!
One serious suspend disbelief required is how could Ford get Bernard into the organization, without anyone noticing he is Arnold’s doppelgänger?
I'm glad to hear you enjoyed season 1! If you get the chance to rewatch the season at some point, you'll find that from the beginning, there were subtle clues everywhere hinting whether we're watching a flashback, and how far back it is. Such as: the original vs updated Westworld logos seen on walls and uniforms, the presence of flies (which are only in "present day" due to the more organic structure of newer host bodies), the differences in the way Arnold and Bernard dress, seeing the same host(s) like the one played by Talulah Riley in various roles, etc. This season, as well as the second, definitely benefits from a rewatch (or 3-4 in my case
). The attention to detail is phenomenal.I think one benefit of watching this show as it aired, as opposed to binge watching it in a short period, was that we had that extra week between episodes to find those clues, and analyze and discuss theories. That, in itself, was a lot of fun. The show's website would also get updated weekly to reflect changes as the series progressed (but again, I wouldn't check it until you've seen season 2).
As for the Arnold/Bernard doppelgänger question, it's definitely weird. For the sake of the story/twist, I understand why they had to do it, but it would've made more sense if Ford had just made Bernard look different. I can only assume in the beginning, perhaps he kept Bernard isolated so no one else noticed him. And as time went on, memory of Arnold faded and Bernard took a more prominent position.
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S2:E1- A bit confusing until I figured out we are watching 2 time frames again, one immediate after the massacre, and one when the security team appears and they start sweeping the island.
As things currently stand, the hosts don’t seem to stand a chance, but I’m sure the writers will try to surprise viewers. Other than Maeve who knows more about her self than the others, they are motivated at this point to free themselves and vanquish their oppressors. Bernard is in a very interesting stressful position constantly on the verge of being discovered. I’m surprised a machine read him as human.
I don’t think we know at this point what power source the hosts use, and how often they need to be recharged. This limitation in itself if it is a short interval, and not something like nuclear, seems like this is an aspect that will hamper any attempt for the hosts to find their freedom at least long term.
At this point on Star Trek, the hosts would apply as sentient life forms. But the question remains are they sentient, as we consider life to be sentient, or are they just really good human emulators? Do they have consciousness as we know it? The show has made the enlightened ones, able to consider their existence so, it would seem like we are watching a Data style life form.
As things currently stand, the hosts don’t seem to stand a chance, but I’m sure the writers will try to surprise viewers. Other than Maeve who knows more about her self than the others, they are motivated at this point to free themselves and vanquish their oppressors. Bernard is in a very interesting stressful position constantly on the verge of being discovered. I’m surprised a machine read him as human.
I don’t think we know at this point what power source the hosts use, and how often they need to be recharged. This limitation in itself if it is a short interval, and not something like nuclear, seems like this is an aspect that will hamper any attempt for the hosts to find their freedom at least long term.
At this point on Star Trek, the hosts would apply as sentient life forms.
But the question remains are they sentient, as we consider life to be sentient, or are they just really good human emulators? Do they have consciousness as we know it? The show has made the enlightened ones, able to consider their existence so, it would seem like we are watching a Data style life form.
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S2E2: Hmm, I noticed the Man in black (William) using something on himself that looks remarkably like a host repair gun or did I imagine that? If the answer is a spoiler, no need to answer or,please use spoiler brackets in your answer.
I don't remember that to be honest. But considering the level of their medical tech, and that hosts are made of organic material, he probably used it as a quick fix first aid kit for wounds.
S2E4: The agenda of the investor is revealed. Live forever, painful to watch. Story background is given, but the episode kinda dragged. I did enjoy the India World scenario.
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S2E7: Les Escorches- When Bernard has his orb extracted and put into the cradle, does he discover a running simulation, with a digitized Dr. Ford in it who is still running the show?
Also, I’ve seen the room full of Bernards, plus one with Elsie in the Cradle where the orb is removed, and one with Stubbs, Charlotte and the security guy in the secret facility where secret research was being conducted? After a while it made perfect sense, these were two different time frames, that explains what happens.
Also, I’ve seen the room full of Bernards, plus one with Elsie in the Cradle where the orb is removed, and one with Stubbs, Charlotte and the security guy in the secret facility where secret research was being conducted? After a while it made perfect sense, these were two different time frames, that explains what happens.
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Spoiler spoiler spoiler
S2E10- The Passenger Season 2 Finale. Intriguing, complex and messy. Much more depth than the original West World movie. I could be talked into reading the book. Beautiful settings. I read this series will not return until 2020.
S2E10- The Passenger Season 2 Finale. Intriguing, complex and messy. Much more depth than the original West World movie. I could be talked into reading the book. Beautiful settings. I read this series will not return until 2020.
- Will they be able to call it West World in Season 3?
- I noticed humans preparing to salvage dead hosts. I noticed that New Dolores had a purse full of pearls, resurrection time!
- The hosts who escaped into the simulated world, the upload transmission was sent to a new location. I assume somewhere, Dr Ford set up for favorable parties to have access to it, not the Corporation. I also assume that all of these personalities will be salvageable back into the real world.
- I assume the data for all the guests was saved from the Forge.
- I assume Ford continues to exist only as an A.I. personality.
- When William (Man in Black) kills his daughter in the park, I assume she was a host, and because of the ending, he is a recreated person/host just like Delos was. One of the clues is she spoke the Indian language. William seemed certain, but then doubted himself.
- Now if Delores temporarily inhabited Charlotte’s Host body, then went back into her own host body, can we assume a new and improved Charlotte has also been resurrected, and is on Team Host?
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Spoiler spoiler spoiler
S2E10- The Passenger Season 2 Finale. Intriguing, complex and messy. Much more depth than the original West World movie. I could be talked into reading the book. Beautiful settings. I read this series will not return until 2020.
- Will they be able to call it West World in Season 3?
- I noticed humans preparing to salvage dead hosts. I noticed that New Dolores had a purse full of pearls, resurrection time!
- The hosts who escaped into the simulated world, the upload transmission was sent to a new location. I assume somewhere, Dr Ford set up for favorable parties to have access to it, not the Corporation. I also assume that all of these personalities will be salvageable back into the real world.
- I assume the data for all the guests was saved from the Forge.
- I assume Ford continues to exist only as an A.I. personality.
- When William (Man in Black) kills his daughter in the park, I assume she was a host, and because of the ending, he is a recreated person/host just like Delos was. One of the clues is she spoke the Indian language. William seemed certain, but then doubted himself.
- Now if Delores temporarily inhabited Charlotte’s Host body, then went back into her own host body, can we assume a new and improved Charlotte has also been resurrected, and is on Team Host?
All great assumptions!
I also wonder who else Dolores has in her bag of pearls. I wouldn’t mind seeing Angela or Teddy return in some form. I’m not sure the hosts who entered the door are still accessible but it would certainly be an interesting twist to see some of those characters again! Also I would love to see Anthony Hopkins return next season in some form.
It’s been almost a year since I’ve seen the second season so my recollection is a bit fuzzy, but I was under the impression that William’s daughter was indeed human. He was so deluded with Ford’s games, that he couldn’t grasp he’d actually killed her. And then the future version of her we see is a host. I could be wrong though, I may need to refresh with a rewatch soon! Besides, that post-credits ending really threw me for a loop and I don’t think I ever fully grasped what it meant.
Lisa Joy even tries to clear it up in this article.
Also, my understanding is that there actually wasn’t any book source for the movie. Crichton wrote the movie itself. But I’m inclined to believe it heavily influenced his writing Jurassic Park.
Good article! Initially I thought he had killed his daughter, he had doubts, and then I had doubts. I thought it was odd that she could understand American Indian, as all of the hosts could (it’s in their code) but maybe she was just a bright, educated person. And can I say this as a rule, hosts made in the likeness of real people, do not show up until the real person has died? But I can see this as a rule easily broken.All great assumptions!
I also wonder who else Dolores has in her bag of pearls. I wouldn’t mind seeing Angela or Teddy return in some form. I’m not sure the hosts who entered the door are still accessible but it would certainly be an interesting twist to see some of those characters again! Also I would love to see Anthony Hopkins return next season in some form.
It’s been almost a year since I’ve seen the second season so my recollection is a bit fuzzy, but I was under the impression that William’s daughter was indeed human. He was so deluded with Ford’s games, that he couldn’t grasp he’d actually killed her. And then the future version of her we see is a host. I could be wrong though, I may need to refresh with a rewatch soon! Besides, that post-credits ending really threw me for a loop and I don’t think I ever fully grasped what it meant.
Lisa Joy even tries to clear it up in this article.
Also, my understanding is that there actually wasn’t any book source for the movie. Crichton wrote the movie itself. But I’m inclined to believe it heavily influenced his writing Jurassic Park.
This maybe considered a minor spoiler, but at IMDB, they list the actors who have filmed more than 2 seasons worth of episodes, and it is only a small core of them.
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Regarding the book, if you can find it, it was published as the script for the movie, so I don’t see the kind of read I would expect from Michael Crichton.Spoiler spoiler spoiler
S2E10- The Passenger Season 2 Finale. Intriguing, complex and messy. Much more depth than the original West World movie. I could be talked into reading the book. Beautiful settings. I read this series will not return until 2020.
- Will they be able to call it West World in Season 3?
- I noticed humans preparing to salvage dead hosts. I noticed that New Dolores had a purse full of pearls, resurrection time!
- The hosts who escaped into the simulated world, the upload transmission was sent to a new location. I assume somewhere, Dr Ford set up for favorable parties to have access to it, not the Corporation. I also assume that all of these personalities will be salvageable back into the real world.
- I assume the data for all the guests was saved from the Forge.
- I assume Ford continues to exist only as an A.I. personality.
- When William (Man in Black) kills his daughter in the park, I assume she was a host, and because of the ending, he is a recreated person/host just like Delos was. One of the clues is she spoke the Indian language. William seemed certain, but then doubted himself.
- Now if Delores temporarily inhabited Charlotte’s Host body, then went back into her own host body, can we assume a new and improved Charlotte has also been resurrected, and is on Team Host?
Yep. It was the rare time one of his books wasn't adapted into a movie. Crichton himself wrote and directed the 1973 movie, and then released the screenplay as a book. I imagine a Westworld novel would've done amazingly well if released today given the leaps in technology (and for that reason, I can't even begin to fathom how he thought of this idea in the 70s- almost 50 years ago!), but at least we did get a fundamentally similar Jurassic Park.Regarding the book, if you can find it, it was published as the script for the movie, so I don’t see the kind of read I would expect from Michael Crichton.
More about it here: The Long, Weird History of the Westworld Franchise
One thing I did not get if Ism remembering it correctly, Dolores says the Valley Beyond is a weapon to be used against humans? I did nitbsee that manifested. Thoughts?
This is most interesting how far we have come with technology in 46 years. From your article, this was more than a decade before I could play pong at home! :
“Crichton turned to experimental filmmaker John Whitney, who referred him to his computer-fascinated son, John Whitney Jr. He agreed to work on the CGI for only $20,000, and to get it done in four months. It would take much longer. Each shot of the Gunslinger’s POV had to be painstakingly rendered to the degree that the computer processing alone took eight hours to produce ten seconds of film.”
Great article!
This is most interesting how far we have come with technology in 46 years. From your article, this was more than a decade before I could play pong at home!
:“Crichton turned to experimental filmmaker John Whitney, who referred him to his computer-fascinated son, John Whitney Jr. He agreed to work on the CGI for only $20,000, and to get it done in four months. It would take much longer. Each shot of the Gunslinger’s POV had to be painstakingly rendered to the degree that the computer processing alone took eight hours to produce ten seconds of film.”
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Oh my God that looks epic! No Ed Harris in this trailer, but he is in this season so will be interesting to see how he plays out.