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What We Learn From Leopard's Delay

xUKHCx said:
For that to happen i think there would be an even longer delay (read 1-2 years)
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Why? Hackers already have it running on Dell hardware, etc. Yes, Apple would have to get drivers together, test many different hardware configurations, etc... but they could save time by opening it to Dell first, then HP after a while, etc. And what's to say Apple hasn't been working on this for the past 5 years - as they had been doing with their switch to Intel???

What if apple released a sub $1000 minitower? Would you still want generic OS X?
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I would probably buy the Apple minitower even if there was OS X for generic PC. But Yes, as a network administrator in the PC world I would still want generic OS X... because using OS X in business would only be advisable if OS X was opened up to generic PC hardware --- I could not tollerate Apple dictating to me a very limited selection of hardware.
 
Macrumors said:
This specificity was noted by Arn in a blog posting on the matter, suggesting that "integrated" Boot Camp might be something closer to Parallels virtualization.
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I think it is more likely bootcamp will get a suspend to disk feature then virtualization. Just click a button and switch back and forth with no reboot. Most people don't care to run osx and vista simultaneously with virtualization anyway.
 
wmmk said:
I learned that some people whine a lot. I also learned that Tiger is a great OS that is still ahead of Vista.
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How true! Tiger is a fabulous operating system and in a way I am quite relieved I will be continuing to live with it through the next round of
computer purchases:)
 
Gimme A Break!

enough is enough. the delay is too long! cut the nonsense and give us leopard! if apple comes up with something worth adding or taking away (like windows virtualization capability) then put it in an update!
 

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why are people getting so angry at Apple? All of those that are saying 'im not buying until Leopard is installed' are fools. Tiger is an awesome OS. If you need new Hardware, wait for the hardware to be ready, not the OS. YOu can always upgrade the OS later.. we all know how 'difficult' it is to upgrade hardware.

Yes, i'm as miffed as the next Man at the delay, but so what? I still have my Mac(s) :)

and another thing... i truely believe that iPhone is Apple's main priority right now. Who wouldn't want a repeat success of the iPod? and the reason it worked.... preparation. the media attention over this device has been many times what we were expecting (IMO), and SJ canny afford to balls it up.

I like the idea of being able to take a portable version of my mac with me on my iPhone... settings, pref's etc... who's to say this hasn;t been the delay? finding a way to run a more complex (sic) os on a simpler one?

speculation is not my middle name :cool:
 
Other than Time Machine, the features of 10.5 announced so far are a giant "meh" for me, so... I hope they take all the time they need to put some more exciting stuff in the mix before they bake this cake.
 
I can wait cause I have to. But I can wait with ease if we get integrated bootcamp that works better than Parallels. It would be nice to get a all in one bundle that does not need any extra software loading or configuring to run windows programs. Dare I even dream not needing Windows at all?
 
What is "Bootcamp"?

If it's a system to install Windows and provide a switch on boot-up, then it's hard to see how it can be more "integrated" than it is today. The temptation is to see it as a generic way to describe all solutions for running Windows on a Mac, but the name implies something more specific, the word "boot" implies it's about how the Mac starts up.

So the "Leopard's going to have virtualization support!" or "It's going to have Wine-like integration!" strikes me as, well, it's possible Leopard will have that, but I don't see why they'd associate that with the functionality of Bootcamp. It's Mac enthusiasts, who see Bootcamp = Windows, who are reading that into the functionality, and it doesn't make much sense.

I'm not discounting the idea that Leopard will have more integrated solutions for running Windows applications. Apple can get that by providing a method of installing "real" Windows and then using a wine-based back-end to host the operating system. (This leaves you with close to perfect emulation, the only serious problem people who do this already under GNU/Linux have is with copy-prevention schemes, and Apple certainly has the resources to fix that.)

But that's not what would be in an "integrated" version of Bootcamp. So it'd be interesting to speculate what, exactly, would be.

Here's one. Suppose you did build virtualization into Bootcamp, rather than Leopard. When your Mac boots, it loads Bootcamp rather than Mac OS X. At that point, your first Bootcamp "session" automatically starts, which is an instance of Mac OS X. At any time, you can flit back to Bootcamp and start new sessions, running multiple versions of Windows, Mac OS X, GNU/Linux, or whatever else you want.

This is different from the "Parallels" scenario most people are describing, where the virtualization is in the operating system. In this situation, the virtualization is hosted outside of the operating system (and could be described as a thin operating system itself.)

How would it differ from the existing Bootcamp? It'd be the difference between "Mac OS 6" and "Mac OS 6+Multifinder."

Just in case it isn't clear from the above, I'm just pointing out that you need to be Bootcamp, that is, boot manager, centric when speculating what an "integrated" Bootcamp that somehow is so advanced it delays an OS goes. As it happens, I think virtualization is unlikely, because Apple keeps dropping hints saying it's unlikely. But this is the kind of thing we should be thinking about.
 
I don't for one second believe that the delay is because of the iPhone...

What a load of B.S.

Apple's been having problems with this new OS for a long time. It's NOT because of this stupid phone, okay? What I find funny is after all the bravado about starting photocopiers and ripping on Micro$oft is that we're looking at almost a year from product announcement to product shipping. That's ridiculous.

This really sucks for me because my 3G ipod just croaked and I'm using an antiquated (in computer terms) iMac with an older OS not supported by the shiny new ones. But you know what? That's what eBay is for. I'll look at it as upgrading from a 30gig to a 40! I will NOT buy a new OS just to get a shiny new toy!

I have money in the bank waiting for a new computer and iPod. Heck, I'd consider getting a shiny new Mac Pro if Apple'd just offer a decent graphics card with it. You know what? When I spend that much money, I just might like to play a game once in a while, you know?

And NO, I will not be buying the iPhone.

Apple, me and my bank account will see you in October.

:cool:
 
I think that the best thing we can take from all this is that there will surely be new hardware soon. These last few months I've had this sketch in my mind of Jobsy sitting in a confession booth ashamedly admitting that "its been six months since my last computer release", and, excepting the 8-core BTO option on the mac pro, that date is only 3 weeks away now. There seemed to be a lot of ppl denying that the iphone was using up apple's resources, holding up these updates, ppl who were confident that all macs would have been updated by wwdc, many with new form factors, all shipping with leopard. Now that their blind optimism has been proven misplaced, we can surely expect some new computers because otherwise Apple Inc. will really be in the $h!t, iphone or not.

I'd expect mbp's at NAB or at their own event before wwdc (depending on santa rosa's timeframe)
imacs, macbooks & kentsfield-across-the-board mac pros at wwdc
or macbooks and macmini's at their own event soon after wwdc

Here's to hoping.
 
grief

I have languished over the release of Leopard. However, this delay makes sense so that Apple can "stick it to the man", Microsoft, and make sure their release is far ahead of Vista. I would also bet that the interface changes and skin on Leopard were too close to vista. Where apple was going with see through effects and core animation, Vista rips off, it would look bad to drop a new OS that visually looks anything like Vista, using black see through effects like we see in iPhoto full screen controls, or glass imaging like coverflow.

I'm sure there was a lot of re-thinking to do once Vista was released.

Also, they are far enough ahead of competition in OS tech, they can afford to use resources on iPhone. I am pumped for iPhone, look at what iPod did to improve our lives - anyone want to go back and carry around CD's and a CD Walkman in a backpack?

Go Apple!
 
I suspect the timing of both the denial of the delay and then the confirmation had something to do with the fiscal quarter ending in March and the new one beginning in April.

Which means either Apple PR was lying or the OS X team was keeping their progress - or lack thereof - a secret. I suspect the latter, since Apple doesn't exactly send out memos on roadmaps, schedules and "unreleased products".

Developers have been raising flags about bug fixes for a while. Obviously, Apple management has known for a while that they would be killing the OS X team to finish before WWDC. Hopefully, this will be an incentive to announce the "secret" stuff at WWDC so they can save face and developers can actually test against these unannounced "features".

Key sentence in the press release:

"While Leopard's features will be complete by then, we cannot deliver the quality release that we and our customers expect from us."
 
uhzoomzip said:
Apple management has known for a while that they would be killing the OS X team to finish before WWDC. ...........

Key sentence in the press release:

"While Leopard's features will be complete by then, we cannot deliver the quality release that we and our customers expect from us."
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My concern is that there is 4-5 months before they release it after its supposed feature completion for WWDC. For such a feature complete piece of software thats a long time for bugs.....
 
4nNtt said:
I think it is more likely bootcamp will get a suspend to disk feature then virtualization. Just click a button and switch back and forth with no reboot. Most people don't care to run osx and vista simultaneously with virtualization anyway.
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I can think this statement makes more sense than anything I've heard yet speculating about Bootcamp.
 
What I've Learned...

Sorry if some of this has been posted already, but I can't bring myself to read the hundreds of messages that have already been posted on the subject:

1 - It seems to be a lot of people have failed to notice a nugget of information found in the first sentence of Apple's statement "iPhone has already passed several of its required certification tests and is on schedule to ship in late June as planned." All those people who were predicting that the iPhone would be released early, or at least early in June, will have to wait. It clearly says "Late" June which Apple had never specified before. Methinks that Apple is running late with the iPhone as well and gave the ambiguous "June" window to give themselves some leeway. Now are having to push it all the way to the end of the month.

2 - To all those people complaining about Leopard being late and saying that now Apple is as bad as Microsoft: Please remember that Apple had claimed a release of "Spring 2007" for Leopard. In other words, Leopard is not even late yet and it won't be officially "late" until the end of June. If Apple manages to deliver by October, that will be only 3-4 months late. How can any of you possibly compare that to Vista which was over 5 YEARS late and had to be written at least twice? There is simply no comparison. When Apple is 3 years or more late delivering Leopard, then feel free to tease and make fun all you like. Until then, please keep your whining down to a minimum. Tiger has been out for a long time and it's still light-years ahead of Vista. When you see the new "special" improvements introduced with Leopard you will realize that it was worth the wait.
 
Mark Kuroda said:
Take over the world. When bootcamp can boot with total ease, then more and more people will continue to switch. I think this is brilliant, and Microsoft's downfall, with the combination of all of this, and Google's web-based... everything, Apple may emerge as the victorious (in terms of sales and usership) out of all. Glory.

MK
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Umm...how exactly is even more computers running Windows "Microsoft's downfall"?

Dual booting seems like a win-win situation to me: those who would own a Mac but for one or two programs that require Windows now can; and Windows can run on 99.99% of the world's computers (there's still a couple of Sun workstations out there, right?), instead of only 95%.
 
Integrated, eh? So, are they going to allow OS X to write to an NTFS partition, or are they going to make Vista install on a FAT32 partition--either of which would allow full access to the Windows partition from OS X? Those are the reasons I argue that Vista is not compatible with even the current Boot Camp beta, and why I am still running XP.
 
The October prediction seems accurate now but I have a hard time believing that this is all over better Windows integration.
Why would they delay their OS to accomodate another?
 
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