What We Learn From Leopard's Delay

[suneohair]

I choose to spend my money wisely. I have paid thousands of dollars over the years to enjoy Apple products, most of which have failed for reasons unknown to me. Only a couple of which were through my own clumsiness.

That doesn't mean that I can't ask an honest question about my next Apple purchase.

If that was the case you would not be here on Macrumors. You choose to spend your money based on pure speculation. What about all the people out there buying computers oblivous to NAB, WWDC, etc?

You honest question about your next Apple purchase cannot be answered. Do you know the next iMac won't be out until October... no. Do I know... no. Does anyone on the internet know who is allowed to tell you... no.

Are todays iMacs amazing machines? yes. Will they last for years? yes. Should you buy today? yes.

But of course for you, that is a no because you would rather sit on your money that you spend ever so carefully and wait for the update that may never come. Which makes it clear you don't need a computer, you simply want the next best thing and thus not spending your money wisely.

Get over yourselves. Apple doesn't owe you anything. If sites like this didn't exist you would be out buying the computers when you need them. Get a life. I love Apple as much as anyone else and I love my Mac, but I am not about to let something like this piss me off as much as some of you are expressing.

And Vista was delayed for YEARS!!! Can you read that? YEARRRRSSS. Apple tacked on 4 months which will ultimately give us a better product.

And Multimedia, I doubt this delay has any affect on the Master Collection. Adobe never said it was leopard dependant.

 

[gwangung]

The only things we learn from this delay is that they don't seem to have enough developers and that OS X is not the priority anymore.

A) NOBODY has enough developers.

B) Their priority is HARDWARE. That's where they get the bulk of their revenue (and that's ALWAYS been that way).

C) Most Mac users don't seem to learn a damn things about business and how it operates in the real world.

 

[Vidd]

That's one of them, yeah. Personally I could care less about touch screen, but still, new stuff is new stuff....

But then what else do you mean?
Hardware video encoding?
You'd be more likely to see them release the fabled 10.4.10 to accomodate that in the next six months rather than wait just to tie it in the the OS.

Elgato just released a $100 USB dongle that can do all that on current Tiger systems!

If not, what do you mean? This could be a worry for myself as well but there's nothing solid yet.

 

[suneohair]

The only things we learn from this delay is that they don't seem to have enough developers and that OS X is not the priority anymore.

Sensational much? Give me a break. All it means is that to hit their iPhone date which has more hype around it than Leopard they need to shift resources to the iPhone from Leopard.

And who is to say that now they are not working on it full fledged now? (Leopard that is.) Maybe the resource shift happened already but to their dismay there was no way Leopard could be finished. That would explain the length of time between the developer builds. And now that we have one it could mean they are back to business as usual.

I don't know what is really happening of course. I am not about to sensationalize the topic, it is what it is. And it makes sense.

 

[digiguy23]

Why are most people being a cheeleader for Apple. The iPhone is cool and i'll probably get one, but unless you belong to At&t and want to get the contract, pay the big bucks, I feel Apple is making a big mistake on this one. This is not a product that any one can just go into a store and pick one up. "YOU NEED CELLULAR SERVICE". And believe me, companies that has hundreds of Blackberrys are not going to dump them in June. Nice going Steve.

 

[hazmat]

But then what else do you mean?
Hardware video encoding?
You'd be more likely to see them release the fabled 10.4.10 to accomodate that in the next six months rather than wait just to tie it in the the OS.

Elgato just released a $100 USB dongle that can do all that on current Tiger systems!

If not, what do you mean? This could be a worry for myself as well but there's nothing solid yet.

I don't actually know what I mean. It's the stuff I don't know about that worries me. The stuff I imagine seeing when it's released and thinking, "Damn, I wish I had waited for that."

 

[BillyShears]

Complain about the delay in another topic please.

This topic is about the delay's effect on DigiTimes's credibility, especially their claim of an "integrated" Boot Camp in Leopard.

There is another topic to complain about the Leopard delay.

I know I'm not a moderator, but it is frustrating to read this topic when over half the posts are complaints about the iPhone or Leopard's delay.

 

[maxvamp]

Makes the 8 core a publicly available developer's platform. Load the beta after WWDC and get busy.

I do not understand your comment... Several parallel QT / FCP renders, Cinema4D, Maya, et. could use these procs.

Furthermore, If someone wanted to develop for Leopard, they could do it now. I am sure bigger projects have already started....

Max.

 

[alansky]

Don't need no stinkin' Windows, but if I did...

I have no need to run Windows on my Mac, but I have installed Windows XP on a friend's Mac with the help of Parallels Desktop and, I must say, this is the way to go. If I did need Windows, the ability to switch back and forth between XP and OS X with a click of the mouse sure beats restarting the computer.

 

[deputy_doofy]

integrated = wonderful

Except for graphics cards.

 

[maxvamp]

A) NOBODY has enough developers.

B) Their priority is HARDWARE. That's where they get the bulk of their revenue (and that's ALWAYS been that way).

C) Most Mac users don't seem to learn a damn things about business and how it operates in the real world.

TRUE!!




Max.

 

[peharri]

An alternative point of view

The Bootcamp theory is interesting but for reasons I mentioned earlier, there's no actual explanation that works yet that involves Bootcamp.

Here's an interesting alternative take. It's a little anti-Apple so drink some Chamomile Tea before reading but essentially:

• It takes Apple's statement, that this is iPhone related, at face value
• It points out that Apple's statement is more carefully worded than it might appear on the surface.

Specifically, the Apple statement says the iPhone has passed "several" tests, which implies it either isn't ready to pass, or has actively failed, other tests.

This might imply there are very real problems with the iPhone, and Apple has suddenly had to pull out all the stops to get it approved.

The fact the phone apparently runs OS X at a low level might, to me, be a problem and be why Apple is suddenly having to throw Leopard engineers at the issue. When I first got a smartphone, a Nokia 9000, Nokia had interfaced the Windows-like GEOS operating system with GSM by, effectively, bolting on an entire Nokia 21x0 phone onto the system, and allowing the GEOS side to communicate with the 21x0 side at a high level so GEOS could manage the phone book and pull out meta information. It was effectively a phone and a separate handheld-PC in a single box. In other words, they were already using a lightweight system for the smartphone part of the system, and they still chose to prevent it from doing the real work on the phone side. Why? To make the difficult bit, the bit that requires regulatory oversight, as simple as possible. It was an existing, known, design.

Later Nokia 9xxx series phones used Symbian, but in a similar relationship. As Symbian has matured, I believe it is both the high and low level OS on newer Nokia phones, but again it's a very small, mature, easily tested OS.

By comparison, OS X has been created by removing significant chunks of Mac OS X (apparently) and replacing others. It's a much larger system than anything I've seen hitting the radio hardware directly on a phone.

(Now, maybe it isn't, perhaps there's an in-between device, as with the Nokia 9000s, but that's not what Jobs himself has implied. He's indicated that the entire thing is too low level to allow independent third party application development, citing the possibility of bugs bringing down the network if that happened. He could have just been trying to justify the usual Apple controls, or he could have had a point.)

It strikes me as entirely likely that Apple's statement should be taken at face value. Right now, particularly in the testing and bug-fixing departments, the iPhone is in dire need of help if they're going to release on time, and - guess what - those are also exactly what Leopard needs right now too.

 

[Diatribe]

A) NOBODY has enough developers.

B) Their priority is HARDWARE. That's where they get the bulk of their revenue (and that's ALWAYS been that way).

C) Most Mac users don't seem to learn a damn things about business and how it operates in the real world.

OS X is the only reason why people even buy Macs, so saying that
Apple is a hardware company and an OS delay doesn't matter is a nonsense argument. And you can keep your personal insults to yourself. It's common courtesy

Sensational much? Give me a break. All it means is that to hit their iPhone date which has more hype around it than Leopard they need to shift resources to the iPhone from Leopard.

And who is to say that now they are not working on it full fledged now? (Leopard that is.) Maybe the resource shift happened already but to their dismay there was no way Leopard could be finished. That would explain the length of time between the developer builds. And now that we have one it could mean they are back to business as usual.

I don't know what is really happening of course. I am not about to sensationalize the topic, it is what it is. And it makes sense.

That was a simple statement, where you see me sensationalizing it is beyond me.

 

[suneohair]

The only things we learn from this delay is that they don't seem to have enough developers and that OS X is not the priority anymore.

That is a sensational statement. If you would have said, OS X is not a priority RIGHT NOW that would have been different. But to say ANYMORE, well it isn't true. If that was true then we would never be getting Leopard.

 

[iTron5]

Sensational much? Give me a break. All it means is that to hit their iPhone date which has more hype around it than Leopard they need to shift resources to the iPhone from Leopard.

Originally Posted by Diatribe
The only things we learn from this delay is that they don't seem to have enough developers and that OS X is not the priority anymore.

You harass Diatribe about sensationalizing but, I fail to see how your statement differs from Diabtribes at all. You say iPhone had more hype and needed to hit their release date, to do so it required moving resources to the iPhone to accomplish that. Which says that they didn't have enough developers to meet the timelines for both and had to shift resources to iPhone which indicates it had priority, so where is the difference?

 

[suneohair]

Originally Posted by Diatribe
The only things we learn from this delay is that they don't seem to have enough developers and that OS X is not the priority anymore.

You harass Diatribe about sensationalizing but, I fail to see how your statement differs from Diabtribes at all. You say iPhone had more hype and needed to hit their release date, to do so it required moving resources to the iPhone to accomplish that. Which says that they didn't have enough developers to meet the timelines for both and had to shift resources to iPhone which indicates it had priority, so where is the difference?

Well, lets see here. Everything you said I said, is fact, or at least what Apple is telling us. So considering I am simply taking the facts, I don't really see how my statement could be the same.

My issue is with the word anymore, it is rather sensational to say "it isn't the priority anymore," it just isn't right now. Saying anymore implies it will never be again, because of iPod, iPhone, whatever. There is no evidence of that.

anymore: to any further extent; any longer

 

[headfuzz]

I heard that one of the secret features of Leopard is World Peace, that's why I'm disappointed it's late.

 

[iTron5]

Well, lets see here. Everything you said I said, is fact, or at least what Apple is telling us. So considering I am simply taking the facts, I don't really see how my statement could be the same.

My issue is with the word anymore, it is rather sensational to say "it isn't the priority anymore," it just isn't right now. Saying anymore implies it will never be again, because of iPod, iPhone, whatever. There is no evidence of that.

I would say there is no evidence to the contrary either, so you can't be sure either way. And Just because it's not a priority doesn't mean it will never be seen. I'm not saying i agree it's not a priority, it just seemed to me your original statement basically said the same thing, i will give you that saying anymore does have a connotation that it will never be again, although i'm not so sure that was the intent of the statement.

 

[Diatribe]

Well, lets see here. Everything you said I said, is fact, or at least what Apple is telling us. So considering I am simply taking the facts, I don't really see how my statement could be the same.

My issue is with the word anymore, it is rather sensational to say "it isn't the priority anymore," it just isn't right now. Saying anymore implies it will never be again, because of iPod, iPhone, whatever. There is no evidence of that.

anymore: to any further extent; any longer

English is your native language, correct? Good, now that we have cleared that up, go ahead and tell me since when "anymore" is of infinite validity.
Anymore simply means it was before and now isn't. That doesn't mean it won't be again in the future.

 

[localoid]

The Bootcamp theory is interesting but for reasons I mentioned earlier, there's no actual explanation that works yet that involves Bootcamp.

Bootcamp = boot manager.
Parallels Desktop for Mac = virtualization software.
Coherence = feature of Parallels Desktop for Mac's virtualization software that makes the virtual OS look more "native."

"Intergrated bootcamp" = <insert wishful thinking and unreasonable expectations here>

Sorry, but this whole Leopard is delay because of a "top secret sort of Bootcamp" is a real stretch, largely because what's being hoped for or described isn't really a boot manager at all.

peharri: Your earlier post re: this subject is one I've read based on reality. I'm not attacking your previous post, or your take on it -- just pointing out the fact that "intergrated bootcamp" is being defined as meaning <insert wishful thinking here>.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Integrated = Included with.

Integrated: adjective, having been integrated, in particular with various parts or aspects linked or coordinated.

Basically, "integrated" can mean just that it is included with the OS, rather than a separate download. I wouldn't put too much stock in trying to interpret the precise meanings of words translated from a foreign language. Asian languages in particular are known for not always having the most precise translations.

 

[suneohair]

I would say there is no evidence to the contrary either, so you can't be sure either way. And Just because it's not a priority doesn't mean it will never be seen. I'm not saying i agree it's not a priority, it just seemed to me your original statement basically said the same thing, i will give you that saying anymore does have a connotation that it will never be again, although i'm not so sure that was the intent of the statement.

We have evidence by what Apple says. If you want to believe them or not, is up to you. But it definetly isn't out of the question for them to shift resources to the iPhone. Considering the iPhone was barely done when they showed it at Macworld. Software wise of course.

I don't know the original intent of the statement, but the word that was chosen was one that implied the meaning i derived and works with what others are saying. That Apple has abandoned its computers and it focused on iPhone and iPod, I think thread 500 had similar opinions about iPod.

Apple is a rather small company, and they have their hands in a lot different areas. I am sure similar shifts in resources happens in other companies, unfortunetly this decision had an impact on another product.

I want Leopard like everyone else, and was bummed by the news. But the outcry here is ridiculous. And everyone saying "this long for Time Machine and 64-bit" obviously know nothing about software development and should divert their efforts here toward educating themselves. Better yet, they can make their own version of Leopard and get it out in June since they seem to know so much. Thanks.

 

[05elstonc]

Very few people have discussed the fact that Apple will demonstrate a feature complete version of Leopard at WWDC. Apple is not going to be silent about Leopard until October, they are actually going to be giving a Beta copy to all in attendance! This is fantastic news! Core Animation is going to be everywhere in the UI and in iLife, this will give 3rd party developers some time to implement some of the new UI conventions into their own app and ship their Leopard only version in October. Because of Core Animation and a few other new API's most new Apps will be Leopard only, therefore developers need to be on board and the OS needs to be stable out of the gate. It is better that Apple has gotten the bad news out of the way now, rather than surprise us at WWDC with a new demo of leopard and a shipping date of October.

 

[suneohair]

English is your native language, correct? Good, now that we have cleared that up, go ahead and tell me since when "anymore" is of infinite validity.
Anymore simply means it was before and now isn't. That doesn't mean it won't be again in the future.

I realize it is not an infinite adverb and isn't necessarily true for the future, adding 'never' would have made it more infinite. Your choice in word was no less sensational however, as you could have easily said "right now" instead of anymore.

Whats more, is that you said OS X, which will go on until OS 11. What is that, 5 or 6 years? Maybe less.. maybe more. OS X has much more of a future implication than saying, "Leopard isn't the priority anymore."

If you meant something different, please clairify.

 

[Diatribe]

Very few people have discussed the fact that Apple will demonstrate a feature complete version of Leopard at WWDC. Apple is not going to be silent about Leopard until October, they are actually going to be giving a Beta copy to all in attendance! This is fantastic news! Core Animation is going to be everywhere in the UI and in iLife, this will give 3rd party developers some time to implement some of the new UI conventions into their own app and ship their Leopard only version in October. Because of Core Animation and a few other new API's most new Apps will be Leopard only, therefore developers need to be on board and the OS needs to be stable out of the gate. It is better that Apple has gotten the bad news out of the way now, rather than surprise us at WWDC with a new demo of leopard and a shipping date of October.

But the big question is why they need 4 months to debug it after it is feature complete. That would only be needed if there were major changes. So WWDC 07 will definitely be interesting.