Which Devices Won't Make the Cut for iOS 8?

[richwoodrocket]

App updates pertaining to iOS 8. But they won't be updated away from 7.

And yes there will be new apps that do require iOS 8 but then we are back to the how long should a device be supported for.

The iPad 2 is on it's 4th version of iOS. It can't go on forever.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Apple discontinue the iPad 2 just to put some distance between it and iOS 8.

I have no stock in whether it does or doesn't get iOS 8. If it does, great if it doesn't oh well. I just personally don't think it will. Just my opinion though which holds no weight.

If you dont know already, apple discontinued the ipad 2 several weeks ago...

 

[oldmacs]

But you can't exclude it either. 3GS was one of quite successful phones for a while, and iPad 1 was bought by many many people as it was the first tablet not only from Apple but even in general essentially. So, while the numbers are even larger now for some newer devices, it's not like the numbers for the older devices at the time when their support stopped or a bit before it were small exactly.

There are arguments for and against it all, that's basically what it comes down to, as has been pointed out before. The only way we'll actually know is when Apple makes an announcement about it all (and even then we might not really know what the reasoning might be behind the decision, whichever way it goes).

The 3GS got a years support after it was discontinued, the iPad 1 got 1.5 years of support after it got discontinued. If the iPad 2 gets dropped it will mean that it gets less than 2 months of support after it is dropped, before a new update is announced.

Also apparently, in China and other countries the iPhone 4 is still for sale (The 4S was never bought in for those countries.

 

[MisakixMikasa]

The 3GS got a years support after it was discontinued, the iPad 1 got 1.5 years of support after it got discontinued. If the iPad 2 gets dropped it will mean that it gets less than 2 months of support after it is dropped, before a new update is announced.

Also apparently, in China and other countries the iPhone 4 is still for sale (The 4S was never bought in for those countries.

China got 4S... And iPhone 4 is discontinued in China... Apple is still selling iPhone 4S in China right now alone with iPhone 5C and iPhone 5S...

iPhone 4 is still selling in Indian market... Apparently, Apple think Chinese consumers are richer than Indian consumers, which is not really true...

 

[C DM]

The 3GS got a years support after it was discontinued, the iPad 1 got 1.5 years of support after it got discontinued. If the iPad 2 gets dropped it will mean that it gets less than 2 months of support after it is dropped, before a new update is announced.

Also apparently, in China and other countries the iPhone 4 is still for sale (The 4S was never bought in for those countries.

Sure, but even taking all of that, still, does that really mean that the more "borderline" devices (iPad 2 mostly) really will or won't be supported with even a decently high degree of probability?

 

[Yebubbleman]

I love how everyone continues to ignore that the iPad 2 has a MASSIVE installed base. No update = angry costumers.

Also what will do they do about the iPhone 4 being sold in india??

Not seeing these massive differences the other A5 devices have over the iPad 2... besides the fact that most are slower. Differences are 1. A connector (which has nothing to do with software. 2. A retina display that actually consumers more power. 3. Bluetooth 4 on the newer devices (Which again I can't see being overly dependant for running iOS 8 well).

I repeat there is no reason for the iPad 2 to be dropped. None at all. If the 4S can run it, the iPad 2 can as well.

I'm not going to say that you're wrong here, but I will say that your logic doesn't quite add up here. First off, very few consumers really care about whether or not they get an update. Secondly, the iPad 2 is three years old and at some point it is assumed that support will be dropped so you go out and buy a newer model.

An iPhone 4 being sold in India lends nothing to it being supported for another go of updates. Apple has done this with iPhone models in the past that didn't get updates past that point.

Thirdly, Apple has been known to drop support for hardware running a new OS EVEN THOUGH IT HAS THE CPU POWER TO RUN IT and they do this any number of reasons, including, but not limited to, simplifying development (i.e. only supporting one kind of bluetooth radio or dropping support for 1024x768 displays [or 640x960 displays for that matter] so that there's one less resolution to maintain assets for, especially leading into yet another one or two more with the iPhone 6 models). Even though the iPad 2 in terms of processor has a lot in common with the other A5 devices, in terms of everything but the processor, the other A5 devices are more advanced and for all anyone knows, that could be the determining factor.

And exactly what about that don't you buy? That Apple won't sell a device that can't be upgraded? Because Apple has never sold an iOS device (in normal distribution channels) that could not be upgraded.

16GB fourth Generation iPod touch; announced in October 2012 and came with iOS 6 preloaded. Guess what? 6.1.6 is its last version. Same goes for the 32GB fourth Generation iPod touches re-introduced and sold at the same time. Both were sold in normal distribution channels for many months.

It has, however, supported devices after they've been discontinued... but that wasn't the point I was making. My point was that Apple doesn't have to update devices that aren't being sold, like the iPad 2. The fact that it was released in 2011 and has already received three major upgrades support the idea that it won't be updated again regardless of its technical ability. Apple has a long list of devices to support and a finite amount of resources; they are unlikely to bog themselves down with another device, especially because they'll be adding another generation of devices (+ iWatch!) in the fall.

We agree here.

I never argued that its lifespan was unjustified. I simply stated that the circumstances surrounding its release/discontinuation were unusual when looking at the iOS device timeline, which is why it's not a good historical reference point.

My point is that regarding the iPads, there's no real consistency for support trends yet. My guess is that the iPad 2 (when all is finally said and done), fourth generation iPad, and iPad Air will all enjoy a much longer run of support than the first and third generation iPads will have, but that has yet to play out fully.

I think you had a typo and meant to say fifth generation touch, not first.

::blushes:: You are correct sir.

It's true that the first generation mini will likely have a shorter lifespan than the iPad mini with Retina Display or other later generation devices. But to cut it off after one year, while it's still on sale, and other A5 devices are expected to receive iOS 8 would be extremely shocking. Unless you expect that Apple will drop the iPhone 4S and iPod touch, I don't see how you would expect them to drop the iPad mini.

The first generation iPad mini runs iOS 7 sluggishly, a bit moreso than the fifth generation iPod touch and the iPhone 4S; though, it's driving more pixels. Given that it shares more in common with the iPad 2 than the iPhone 4S and the fourth generation iPod touch does (albeit not that much more) and that, with two additional resolutions coming with new iPhone (and, hopefully, but unlikely, iPod touch) models, they'll have five to seven different screen resolutions for iOS 8. Holy fragmentation, Batman! Developers are going to have to allow for quite a range there unless Apple trims the fat just a bit.

I do agree; them selling the first generation iPad leading into WWDC 2014 and not supporting it for iOS 8 would be shocking. Then again, Apple Sales Channel could shoot that e-mail tomorrow to resellers announcing that the 8GB 5C is replacing the 8GB 4S in America for the free/no-contract option and that they're dropping the price of the retina iPad minis by $70-100 and discontinuing the first generation models. Hell, they could discontinue the first generation iPad mini on the day of the keynote while they ready whatever other hardware is being announced that day. At that point iOS 8 wouldn't be available yet, but the first generation iPad mini would still be off the shelves.

The iPad 2 is in a slightly different position for reasons stated previously. We've seen Apple update a device that should not have been upgraded (iPhone 3G with iOS 4), a device that should have been upgraded but was not (third gen iPod touch with iOS 6). Technical reasons are evidently not the sole reason for Apple's decisions, so while the iPad 2 may share a lot in common with several other current devices, that may not be enough to justify another iOS upgrade.

It's possible that the iPhone does need special attention paid to it as part of a carrier agreement or for similar reasons to it getting early iOS updates for free where early iPod touch iOS updates cost a nominal fee. I am not sure. They seemed rather technical in their 512MB RAM requirement for iOS 7, but then again, that does beg the point of why iOS 6 never made it onto the third generation iPod touch when it had nowhere near the trouble with iOS 5 that the first generation iPad did.

The 4 is still being sold and produced as well.They were incetivized to buy a 5c or 5s? Are you sure?

Yes. iOS 7.0.x on the iPhone 4 was a natural incentive to upgrade. And at $100 for a brand new, decent smartphone in the form of the 5C with a two-year agreement, that's plenty affordable for an up-front cost to upgrade something so integral to daily life as a smartphone.

5C and 5S are both high-end models.

5C is a mid-range model, if not an entry-level model. The 5S is the high-end model.

People who are still sticking to the 4 are generally not the most tech-savvy people or they just don't care.

You don't need to be tech savy to understand that your phone runs like crap.

If Apple forces them to upgrade, they'll run straight into the hands of Android because it's likely people will want the cheapest alternative when they are forced to upgrade when they don't want to.

ALL smartphone manufacturers force their customers to upgrade. Software gets too slow, apps start requiring more resources. This is universal. iOS does it with iPads, iPad minis, iPod touches, and iPhones, and Android does it with all of its many devices. Most Android phones tend to last two years. Apple is managing three out of high-end iPhones (iPhone 5S in the case of the current generation), two out of mid-range iPhones (iPhone 5C in the case of the current generation), and one out of the low-end 8GB phone of two years ago (iPhone 4S). Everyone upgrades regardless of manufacturer, platform, and how many OS updates you get or don't get.

Remember, for half the price of a 5C (~$325, no contract) you can get decent handsets that are much faster than the iPhone 4. That's a loss for the Apple ecosystem. Also, the 4 is still being sold in India.

Most iPhone customers don't think it through like that. Either that or they buy what they like and/or are comfortable with regardless of whether or not Android is a better deal at the time.

As for the iPhone 4 being sold in India, I don't know why that's being brought up all over the place. That phone is being sold in emerging markets for dirt cheap; that doesn't mean Apple is eking out another major OS update for it necessarily.

It's much better to make people give up their 4 voluntarily, then there's a bigger chance they'll stick with Apple. I'm fairly sure both the iPad 2 and iPhone 4 will get iOS 8.

They stand a chance of making that user experience suck, which is likely what will prevent them from doing that.

iPad 2's fate is tied to the iPad mini. iPhone 4 doesn't stand a chance. The original iPad got dropped fairly quickly so I could see them doing the same to the iPad 2/mini but seems unlikely.

I could see them dropping support for the first generation iPad mini, though there is quite a bit of hardware beyond the processor that sets the first generation iPad mini apart from the iPad 2. Though, again, my experience with iOS 7 on the first generation iPad mini has me seriously doubting that it'll go beyond that. The first generation iPad mini and the first generation iPad unfortunately have in common that they were too slow out of the gate. The former was a year behind out of the gate and its successor product being on time out of the gate at least reveals that support for the first generation mini will be shorter than the second by at least a year/generation.

No, it is back-camera less.

Another typo on my part. That's what I meant to type, but I imagine you figured as much.

The 3GS got a years support after it was discontinued, the iPad 1 got 1.5 years of support after it got discontinued. If the iPad 2 gets dropped it will mean that it gets less than 2 months of support after it is dropped, before a new update is announced.

Again, fourth generation iPod touch. Apple wouldn't be setting a precedent here with the iPad 2 as it was already done last year with the fourth generation iPod touch and less than a month before WWDC. At least the iPad 2 had multiple months in between its final discontinuation and WWDC.

Also apparently, in China and other countries the iPhone 4 is still for sale (The 4S was never bought in for those countries.

This means little. Apple has done this before with U.S. discontinued iPhones and said iPhones were never updated thereafter.

 

[oldmacs]

You can't use the iPod touch 4 as an example.

Apple has only once dropped support for an iOS device less than a year after stopping selling it. Only once.

I also never said anything about customers not caring about iOS updates. Customers actually care a lot about iOS updates, and I would never say the opposite.

Secondly it ran iOS 6 poorly, and even iOS 5 struggled. Safari used to constantly crash, animations were frequently jerky, everything got slower.

The iPad 2 runs iOS 7.1 VERY well.

If Apple drops it, it would prove they are completely money hungry and do not give a damn for customers. I paid $750 for mine 2 and a bit years ago, it is still very capable and I would expect it to at get one more year.

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I'm not going to say that you're wrong here, but I will say that your logic doesn't quite add up here. First off, very few consumers really care about whether or not they get an update. Secondly, the iPad 2 is three years old and at some point it is assumed that support will be dropped so you go out and buy a newer model.


Thirdly, Apple has been known to drop support for hardware running a new OS EVEN THOUGH IT HAS THE CPU POWER TO RUN IT and they do this any number of reasons, including, but not limited to, simplifying development (i.e. only supporting one kind of bluetooth radio or dropping support for 1024x768 displays [or 640x960 displays for that matter] so that there's one less resolution to maintain assets for, especially leading into yet another one or two more with the iPhone 6 models). Even though the iPad 2 in terms of processor has a lot in common with the other A5 devices, in terms of everything but the processor, the other A5 devices are more advanced and for all anyone knows, that could be the determining factor.



Again, fourth generation iPod touch. Apple wouldn't be setting a precedent here with the iPad 2 as it was already done last year with the fourth generation iPod touch and less than a month before WWDC. At least the iPad 2 had multiple months in between its final discontinuation and WWDC.



This means little. Apple has done this before with U.S. discontinued iPhones and said iPhones were never updated thereafter.

Since when has Apple sold iPhones and then discontinued support while still selling??? The iPhone 3G was sold up until the iPhone 4, but it still got updated for almost a year after that.

The other A5 devices are not that much more advanced. Only in a few non key areas (Screen- there is the iPad Mini 1 which is also retina less, Bluetooth- pfft pretty minimal and Possibly in audio - however jailbreaks have shown that siri not being on the iPad 2 is just Apple wanting people to buy newer devices.

Given the amount of money Apple just earned, they should give the iPad 2 another year, so it is not prematurely left obsolete.

 

[na1577]

16GB fourth Generation iPod touch; announced in October 2012 and came with iOS 6 preloaded. Guess what? 6.1.6 is its last version. Same goes for the 32GB fourth Generation iPod touches re-introduced and sold at the same time. Both were sold in normal distribution channels for many months

All models of the 4th generation iPod touch were discontinued before the release of iOS 7. The 16 GB model was discontinued weeks before it was announced, replaced by the 16 GB fifth generation, and the 32 GB model was never re-introduced. They're sold through the refurbished store, but not through mainstream distribution channels.

My point is that regarding the iPads, there's no real consistency for support trends yet. My guess is that the iPad 2 (when all is finally said and done), fourth generation iPad, and iPad Air will all enjoy a much longer run of support than the first and third generation iPads will have, but that has yet to play out fully.

It's certainly possible, but that remains to be seen.

The first generation iPad mini runs iOS 7 sluggishly, a bit moreso than the fifth generation iPod touch and the iPhone 4S; though, it's driving more pixels. Given that it shares more in common with the iPad 2 than the iPhone 4S and the fourth generation iPod touch does (albeit not that much more) and that, with two additional resolutions coming with new iPhone (and, hopefully, but unlikely, iPod touch) models, they'll have five to seven different screen resolutions for iOS 8. Holy fragmentation, Batman! Developers are going to have to allow for quite a range there unless Apple trims the fat just a bit.

The iPad mini has only slightly more pixels than the iPod touch fifth generation and the iPhone 4S (786,432 versus 727,040 and 614,400 respectively). I cannot comment on the iPad mini's performance; I run iOS 6 on all my devices. I briefly ran iOS 7 (not even 7.1) on my iPod touch and I didn't notice any major drops in performance.

It's true that the iPad mini and iPad 2 share more in common than the rest of the line, but I believe that if Apple decides to trim the fat, it will be the iPad 2 and not the iPad mini.

I do agree; them selling the first generation iPad leading into WWDC 2014 and not supporting it for iOS 8 would be shocking. Then again, Apple Sales Channel could shoot that e-mail tomorrow to resellers announcing that the 8GB 5C is replacing the 8GB 4S in America for the free/no-contract option and that they're dropping the price of the retina iPad minis by $70-100 and discontinuing the first generation models. Hell, they could discontinue the first generation iPad mini on the day of the keynote while they ready whatever other hardware is being announced that day. At that point iOS 8 wouldn't be available yet, but the first generation iPad mini would still be off the shelves.

Yes, Apple could surprise us all and make unprecedented moves. But going by the current lineup and their iOS device history, there's no reason to assume this will be the case (though we can't rule it out!)

It's possible that the iPhone does need special attention paid to it as part of a carrier agreement or for similar reasons to it getting early iOS updates for free where early iPod touch iOS updates cost a nominal fee. I am not sure. They seemed rather technical in their 512MB RAM requirement for iOS 7, but then again, that does beg the point of why iOS 6 never made it onto the third generation iPod touch when it had nowhere near the trouble with iOS 5 that the first generation iPad did.

My personal speculation is that very few people were actively using the iPod touch third generation, so Apple dropped it. I have zero evidence to support this but I think it makes sense. While the iPhone 3GS remained on sale until September 2012, the iPod touch third generation was discontinued in September 2010 and most owners probably moved onto other devices by 2012.

 

[cynics]

When did you say that?

Post #135

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If you dont know already, apple discontinued the ipad 2 several weeks ago...

I know. I was just quoting a post. I think I said that specifically earlier in this thread.

 

[Yebubbleman]

You can't use the iPod touch 4 as an example.

Why not? If anything, it being dropped for support happened much closer to WWDC 2013 than the iPad 2's ultimate discontinuation will have to WWDC 2014. It's totally plausible.

Apple has only once dropped support for an iOS device less than a year after stopping selling it. Only once.

This means that it happening twice is fair game. That's called a trend and the only reason why speculation can even happen on sites like this about Apple is that they at least set and follow trends.

I also never said anything about customers not caring about iOS updates.

You didn't. I did.

Customers actually care a lot about iOS updates, and I would never say the opposite.

Some do. A lot don't. And I never said you said otherwise; I was disagreeing with you.

Secondly it ran iOS 6 poorly, and even iOS 5 struggled. Safari used to constantly crash, animations were frequently jerky, everything got slower.

The fourth gen iPod touch ran iOS 5 just fine. On units that shipped with iOS 6 pre-loaded it even ran passably, much like iOS 7 does on a first gen iPad mini.

The iPad 2 runs iOS 7.1 VERY well.

It runs passably. Really, it isn't about how well it can run the current OS as much as how well it can run the next one. Even so, I'd much rather they halt support on an OS that runs well rather than do what they did with the first generation iPad.

If Apple drops it, it would prove they are completely money hungry and do not give a damn for customers. I paid $750 for mine 2 and a bit years ago, it is still very capable and I would expect it to at get one more year.

It seems like you're taking it a bit too personally. If they dropped support, it would likely be to (a) simplify/streamline development and (b) SAVE money (rather than to be greedy). Four iOS versions on an iPad is much more of an improvement from the first generation iPad, and let me tell you, as an owner of the first generation iPad, that DID leave a sour taste in my mouth. If the iPad 2 was dropped, it wouldn't be unfair. That's how the tech industry works.

Since when has Apple sold iPhones and then discontinued support while still selling??? The iPhone 3G was sold up until the iPhone 4, but it still got updated for almost a year after that.

Uh...it came out in 2008 and had its last update in 2010 and was barely functional at that time. Not a good example.

The other A5 devices are not that much more advanced. Only in a few non key areas (Screen- there is the iPad Mini 1 which is also retina less, Bluetooth- pfft pretty minimal and Possibly in audio - however jailbreaks have shown that siri not being on the iPad 2 is just Apple wanting people to buy newer devices.

With the exception of the battery and the A5, just about every non-iPad-2 A5 device is more advanced than the iPad 2 in every way. Apple has dropped support for otherwise capable Macs simply due to not wanting to engineer drivers for certain hardware. This has happened numerous times before in Apple's history. It wouldn't be unfair to assume that the same could happen here, especially when, between the iPad 2/first-gen-mini, the 4/4S, the fifth-gen-touch/5/5C/5S, the retina iPads/retina-mini, and then the 4.7" 6, and then the 5.5" 6, and then the iWatch (assuming all three of those materialize as rumored), Apple will be supporting seven different screen resolutions with iOS 8 which will be a raging nightmare with developers.

Given the amount of money Apple just earned, they should give the iPad 2 another year, so it is not prematurely left obsolete.

Again, you're clearly taking this way personally. There's nothing premature about them leaving an iOS device out of support after four major iOS versions over three years. It also has nothing to do with them having enough money as much as it is about them spending additional money to keep it supported.

All models of the 4th generation iPod touch were discontinued before the release of iOS 7. The 16 GB model was discontinued weeks before it was announced, replaced by the 16 GB fifth generation, and the 32 GB model was never re-introduced. They're sold through the refurbished store, but not through mainstream distribution channels.

By "re-released" I mean "packaged with" and "shipping preloaded with" iOS 6.

And my point was that the 16GB and 32GB versions of the fourth gen iPod touch were sold through mainstream distribution channels until their discontinuation and replacement with the 16GB back-camera-less fifth generation iPod touch. Said discontinuation happened less than a month prior to WWDC where it was announced that the fourth generation iPod touch would not be seeing iOS 7.

The iPad mini has only slightly more pixels than the iPod touch fifth generation and the iPhone 4S (786,432 versus 727,040 and 614,400 respectively). I cannot comment on the iPad mini's performance; I run iOS 6 on all my devices. I briefly ran iOS 7 (not even 7.1) on my iPod touch and I didn't notice any major drops in performance.

I hate to mid-topic change the topic, but how were you able to briefly run iOS 7 on your iPod touch (implying that you reverted back to iOS 6 somehow)?

It's true that the iPad mini and iPad 2 share more in common than the rest of the line, but I believe that if Apple decides to trim the fat, it will be the iPad 2 and not the iPad mini.

Yes, Apple could surprise us all and make unprecedented moves. But going by the current lineup and their iOS device history, there's no reason to assume this will be the case (though we can't rule it out!)

I do agree that it would be unprecedented, and not the best of precedents to even set. Though there would have to be a technical reason to cut the iPad 2 and not the mini. Also if they did cut the 2 and not the first gen mini, that would mean that either (a) iOS 8 performance on the first gen mini will suffer or (b) it won't and it will have simply just been Apple trimming compatibility fat, in which case the iPad 2 will likely continue to enjoy being speedy on its last supported OS (which would be nice considering the first generation iPad's last supported OS makes it run like garbage).

My personal speculation is that very few people were actively using the iPod touch third generation, so Apple dropped it. I have zero evidence to support this but I think it makes sense. While the iPhone 3GS remained on sale until September 2012, the iPod touch third generation was discontinued in September 2010 and most owners probably moved onto other devices by 2012.

It is certainly a weird mystery. Though in context, it's not an iPhone nor an iPad; it is definitely Apple's lowest priority iOS device, and it did come out in 2009, so for it to be denied support in 2012, especially after having had the iPod touch norm of three iOS releases is sadly not unreasonable. Still though, I'd like to know the behind-the-scenes reasoning. I guess, given this it's probably reasonable to assume that the fifth generation iPod touch is getting iOS 8, though I imagine it won't run it all that well.

 

[na1577]

By "re-released" I mean "packaged with" and "shipping preloaded with" iOS 6.
And my point was that the 16GB and 32GB versions of the fourth gen iPod touch were sold through mainstream distribution channels until their discontinuation and replacement with the 16GB back-camera-less fifth generation iPod touch. Said discontinuation happened less than a month prior to WWDC where it was announced that the fourth generation iPod touch would not be seeing iOS 7.

Still not sure what you mean. After iOS 7 was announced it was no longer available. Apple may have stopped selling it late in the game, but the only 4th generation iPod touches that were still being sold after iOS 7 was announced were old stock. Apple wasn't shipping the device, it was already replaced.

I hate to mid-topic change the topic, but how were you able to briefly run iOS 7 on your iPod touch (implying that you reverted back to iOS 6 somehow)?

I installed the GM when it was released. I used it for a week then downgraded the day before the official release of iOS 7. The signing window closed a few days later.

I do agree that it would be unprecedented, and not the best of precedents to even set. Though there would have to be a technical reason to cut the iPad 2 and not the mini. Also if they did cut the 2 and not the first gen mini, that would mean that either (a) iOS 8 performance on the first gen mini will suffer or (b) it won't and it will have simply just been Apple trimming compatibility fat, in which case the iPad 2 will likely continue to enjoy being speedy on its last supported OS (which would be nice considering the first generation iPad's last supported OS makes it run like garbage).

That's an interesting point about performance. We'll see.

It is certainly a weird mystery. Though in context, it's not an iPhone nor an iPad; it is definitely Apple's lowest priority iOS device, and it did come out in 2009, so for it to be denied support in 2012, especially after having had the iPod touch norm of three iOS releases is sadly not unreasonable. Still though, I'd like to know the behind-the-scenes reasoning. I guess, given this it's probably reasonable to assume that the fifth generation iPod touch is getting iOS 8, though I imagine it won't run it all that well.

Yep, it was apparently just an instance of trimming the fat.

 

[Paddle1]

Still not sure what you mean. After iOS 7 was announced it was no longer available. Apple may have stopped selling it late in the game, but the only 4th generation iPod touches that were still being sold after iOS 7 was announced were old stock. Apple wasn't shipping the device, it was already replaced.

I installed the GM when it was released. I used it for a week then downgraded the day before the official release of iOS 7. The signing window closed a few days later.

That's an interesting point about performance. We'll see.

Yep, it was apparently just an instance of trimming the fat.

Why did you get rid of iOS 7 and never upgrade?

 

[gotluck]

Id be surprised if iphone 4 and ipad 2 are not supported considering I believe Apple is still selling both (at least in developing countries)

Will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[oldmacs]

Why not? If anything, it being dropped for support happened much closer to WWDC 2013 than the iPad 2's ultimate discontinuation will have to WWDC 2014. It's totally plausible.

This means that it happening twice is fair game. That's called a trend and the only reason why speculation can even happen on sites like this about Apple is that they at least set and follow trends.

You didn't. I did.

Some do. A lot don't. And I never said you said otherwise; I was disagreeing with you.

The fourth gen iPod touch ran iOS 5 just fine. On units that shipped with iOS 6 pre-loaded it even ran passably, much like iOS 7 does on a first gen iPad mini.


It runs passably. Really, it isn't about how well it can run the current OS as much as how well it can run the next one. Even so, I'd much rather they halt support on an OS that runs well rather than do what they did with the first generation iPad.

It seems like you're taking it a bit too personally. If they dropped support, it would likely be to (a) simplify/streamline development and (b) SAVE money (rather than to be greedy). Four iOS versions on an iPad is much more of an improvement from the first generation iPad, and let me tell you, as an owner of the first generation iPad, that DID leave a sour taste in my mouth. If the iPad 2 was dropped, it wouldn't be unfair. That's how the tech industry works.

Uh...it came out in 2008 and had its last update in 2010 and was barely functional at that time. Not a good example.

With the exception of the battery and the A5, just about every non-iPad-2 A5 device is more advanced than the iPad 2 in every way. Apple has dropped support for otherwise capable Macs simply due to not wanting to engineer drivers for certain hardware. This has happened numerous times before in Apple's history. It wouldn't be unfair to assume that the same could happen here, especially when, between the iPad 2/first-gen-mini, the 4/4S, the fifth-gen-touch/5/5C/5S, the retina iPads/retina-mini, and then the 4.7" 6, and then the 5.5" 6, and then the iWatch (assuming all three of those materialize as rumored), Apple will be supporting seven different screen resolutions with iOS 8 which will be a raging nightmare with developers.

Again, you're clearly taking this way personally. There's nothing premature about them leaving an iOS device out of support after four major iOS versions over three years. It also has nothing to do with them having enough money as much as it is about them spending additional money to keep it supported.

There is no 'trend' from one device being dropped before 1 year. Every other time Apple have given devices 1 year of OS support after discontinuing them. That is the trend. Plus at the time of discontinuation, the iPod 4 was completely passed it, and there wasn't any other A4 device with only 256 MB ram on the market, and it ran iOS 6 badly. The iPad 2 on the other hand remains a relatively powerful device today and runs iOS 7 great.

My iPod touch 4 did not run iOS 5 well, and the ones that came with iOS 6 didn't run it particularly well either. (I know several people who bought them).

The iPad 2 runs iOS 7 far more than passably.

if they discontinued support, it would be pure greed, as if they support other A5 devices, which ARE NOT GREATLY DIFFERENT to the iPad 2 then there is no excuse.

And it is extremely unfair to be firstly over charging for the iPad 2 up to March 2014, then dropping support rapidly. Many places are still selling and have the iPad 2 on display, and i saw one get sold 2 days ago.

Oh and the iPhone 3G is a perfect example. You said that apple drops OS support for phone it still sells in the US, which is not true, and I used the 3G as the example of the shortest supported iOS device after its discontinuation.

 

[C DM]

There is no 'trend' from one device being dropped before 1 year. Every other time Apple have given devices 1 year of OS support after discontinuing them. That is the trend. Plus at the time of discontinuation, the iPod 4 was completely passed it, and there wasn't any other A4 device with only 256 MB ram on the market, and it ran iOS 6 badly. The iPad 2 on the other hand remains a relatively powerful device today and runs iOS 7 great.

My iPod touch 4 did not run iOS 5 well, and the ones that came with iOS 6 didn't run it particularly well either. (I know several people who bought them).

The iPad 2 runs iOS 7 far more than passably.

if they discontinued support, it would be pure greed, as if they support other A5 devices, which ARE NOT GREATLY DIFFERENT to the iPad 2 then there is no excuse.

And it is extremely unfair to be firstly over charging for the iPad 2 up to March 2014, then dropping support rapidly. Many places are still selling and have the iPad 2 on display, and i saw one get sold 2 days ago.

Oh and the iPhone 3G is a perfect example. You said that apple drops OS support for phone it still sells in the US, which is not true, and I used the 3G as the example of the shortest supported iOS device after its discontinuation.

Again, none of those things necessarily point to Apple doing it or not doing it with a decent enough probability to really argue for or against them. It can really happen either way at this point, no matter what is or isn't (or basically will or won't be) behind it.

 

[Paddle1]

There is no 'trend' from one device being dropped before 1 year. Every other time Apple have given devices 1 year of OS support after discontinuing them. That is the trend. Plus at the time of discontinuation, the iPod 4 was completely passed it, and there wasn't any other A4 device with only 256 MB ram on the market, and it ran iOS 6 badly. The iPad 2 on the other hand remains a relatively powerful device today and runs iOS 7 great.

My iPod touch 4 did not run iOS 5 well, and the ones that came with iOS 6 didn't run it particularly well either. (I know several people who bought them).

The iPad 2 runs iOS 7 far more than passably.

if they discontinued support, it would be pure greed, as if they support other A5 devices, which ARE NOT GREATLY DIFFERENT to the iPad 2 then there is no excuse.

And it is extremely unfair to be firstly over charging for the iPad 2 up to March 2014, then dropping support rapidly. Many places are still selling and have the iPad 2 on display, and i saw one get sold 2 days ago.

Oh and the iPhone 3G is a perfect example. You said that apple drops OS support for phone it still sells in the US, which is not true, and I used the 3G as the example of the shortest supported iOS device after its discontinuation.

If they updated the iPad 2 to iOS 8, everyone will hold them obligated to update the iPhone 4 to iOS 8 as well, making 5 versions of iOS the new trend. Apple may want to prevent that from happening.

 

[C DM]

If they updated the iPad 2 to iOS 8, everyone will hold them obligated to update the iPhone 4 to iOS 8 as well, making 5 versions of iOS the new trend. Apple may want to prevent that from happening.

Why would one be related to the other?

 

[oldmacs]

If they updated the iPad 2 to iOS 8, everyone will hold them obligated to update the iPhone 4 to iOS 8 as well, making 5 versions of iOS the new trend. Apple may want to prevent that from happening.

Well... its hard here. Technically the iPhone 4 is a year behind the iPad 2, meaning its a lot slower. But the iPhone 4 is still sold in India and other countries. If iOS 8 is a smaller update like its rumoured, perhaps it will get an update

 

[TC03]

Yes. iOS 7.0.x on the iPhone 4 was a natural incentive to upgrade. And at $100 for a brand new, decent smartphone in the form of the 5C with a two-year agreement, that's plenty affordable for an up-front cost to upgrade something so integral to daily life as a smartphone.




5C is a mid-range model, if not an entry-level model. The 5S is the high-end model.




You don't need to be tech savy to understand that your phone runs like crap.





ALL smartphone manufacturers force their customers to upgrade. Software gets too slow, apps start requiring more resources. This is universal. iOS does it with iPads, iPad minis, iPod touches, and iPhones, and Android does it with all of its many devices. Most Android phones tend to last two years. Apple is managing three out of high-end iPhones (iPhone 5S in the case of the current generation), two out of mid-range iPhones (iPhone 5C in the case of the current generation), and one out of the low-end 8GB phone of two years ago (iPhone 4S). Everyone upgrades regardless of manufacturer, platform, and how many OS updates you get or don't get.



Most iPhone customers don't think it through like that. Either that or they buy what they like and/or are comfortable with regardless of whether or not Android is a better deal at the time.

As for the iPhone 4 being sold in India, I don't know why that's being brought up all over the place. That phone is being sold in emerging markets for dirt cheap; that doesn't mean Apple is eking out another major OS update for it necessarily.

You're reinforcing the stereotype of ignorant Americans.

Outside the US, the 5C isn't $100, it's $700. That's high-end, period. Outside the US, a decent Android handset costs between $200 and $350. Less than half a 5C. The price gap is too big to ignore. You'll drive iOS-ecosystem users straight in the hands of Google Android if you stop supporting the 4, plain and simple.

 

[Paddle1]

Why would one be related to the other?

They are both currently supported devices, and I think the iPhone 4 could benefit from an optimization update similar to 7.1 as well.

 

[C DM]

They are both currently supported devices, and I think the iPhone 4 could benefit from an optimization update similar to 7.1 as well.

That's assuming a major version update can be considered an optimization update.

Even with that, the fact that they are currently supported for iOS 7 isn't really an indication that they will be with iOS 8. There are certainly more signs pointing to iPhone 4 not making the list, and a good few to iPad 2, although not to the same degree. But even if iPad 2 gets an update, that doesn't really speak much one way or another about iPhone 4 really.

However, again, we don't know anything for sure until Apple makes their announcement about it.

 

[Paddle1]

That's assuming a major version update can be considered an optimization update.

Even with that, the fact that they are currently supported for iOS 7 isn't really an indication that they will be with iOS 8. There are certainly more signs pointing to iPhone 4 not making the list, and a good few to iPad 2, although not to the same degree. But even if iPad 2 gets an update, that doesn't really speak much one way or another about iPhone 4 really.

However, again, we don't know anything for sure until Apple makes their announcement about it.

But Apple has also supported iPhone 3GS and iPod Touch 4th gen with updates even after the release of iOS 7, this suggests that they may have received iOS 7 if they had more RAM.

 

[oldmacs]

You're reinforcing the stereotype of ignorant Americans.

Outside the US, the 5C isn't $100, it's $700. That's high-end, period. Outside the US, a decent Android handset costs between $200 and $350. Less than half a 5C. The price gap is too big to ignore. You'll drive iOS-ecosystem users straight in the hands of Google Android if you stop supporting the 4, plain and simple.

Even more so if they don't update the iPad 2...

Flikr would suggest that a significant number of people are using the iPhone 4. Even just a very stripped back update would help to retain this end of the market.

Oh, and no iOS 8 for iPad 2?? Hellloooo even more fragmentation, which apple is so proud to be relatively free of

 

[C DM]

But Apple has also supported iPhone 3GS and iPod Touch 4th gen with updates even after the release of iOS 7, this suggests that they may have received iOS 7 if they had more RAM.

Their updates to those were related to some specific things, like a security issue or something of that nature. Not really an indicator of them being more or less available for an upgrade. And RAM can certainly be an indicator, but it could be plenty of other things (like CPU, GPU, other hardware, whether something is or was recently actively/widely being sold, etc.) that could be a factor instead or in addition to that as well.

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Even more so if they don't update the iPad 2...

Flikr would suggest that a significant number of people are using the iPhone 4. Even just a very stripped back update would help to retain this end of the market.

And that's assuming any of that plays a role in the decision process, or plays an important enough of a role that isn't outweighed by other considerations.

 

[brendu]

Because historically, each device gets 3 iOS upgrades. Even though they're similar internally, they could hold back iOS 8 from the device as it is now a much older model.

They are identical internally. But yeah I agree, having the same internals didn't stop them from giving the iPad mini Siri when they wouldn't give it to the iPad 2. Also, the iPad mini will get it because it's still being sold.

 

[Paddle1]

Their updates to those were related to some specific things, like a security issue or something of that nature. Not really an indicator of them being more or less available for an upgrade. And RAM can certainly be an indicator, but it could be plenty of other things (like CPU, GPU, other hardware, whether something is or was recently actively/widely being sold, etc.) that could be a factor instead or in addition to that as well.

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And that's assuming any of that plays a role in the decision process, or plays an important enough of a role that isn't outweighed by other considerations.

The only other time an older iOS has been updated was for iOS 1 users who didn't get iOS 2.