Why FaceID is OBJECTIVELY a regressive technology

[Derekeys]

This has got to be one of the stupidest discussions on these forums currently. I really wish I hadn't read through all 5 pages of this looking for reasonable content. Get a grip people.

Why be rude with no solution? When was the last time someone said "get a grip" to you on something they didn't care about but you did and that actually changed your mind?

Cmon, you're not being realistic. It's ok for people to care about something you don't and not be rude about it. You could always just move on and not say something mean.

 

[Knowimagination]

Why be rude with no solution? When was the last time someone said "get a grip" to you on something they didn't care about but you did and that actually changed your mind?

Cmon, you're not being realistic. It's ok for people to care about something you don't and not be rude about it. You could always just move on and not say something mean.

But so many people wasted so much of my time I chose to express my distaste for this ridiculous topic.

It wouldn't be bad if people could be rational about it, but apparently the vast majority of people who participate in such a topic are people who are either haters who are going to completely misrepresent Face ID to make it seem like a terrible piece of tech. Those people are then countered by people who go to the opposite extreme to a pointless end also.

It's like this topic needs to be filled with gray area people but instead we just have black and white to the point where the desire to bang your head in the wall is overwhelming.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

Not trying to make a drawn out post.

Think of TouchID as if there was nothing to touch. Pretend like TouchID simply knows you when you pick up the phone.

That's it. You simply pick up the phone. This is a one step process.

Now FaceID. You have to pick up your phone, look at your phone, and swipe up. Three steps.

The reason why I ask you to forget that you are actually touching the TouchID button is because after a while of using the phone, the physical interaction of touching the button is integrated into the process of simply picking the phone up.

This is an analysis of physical interaction between the two technologies. One requires you to simply hold your phone while the other is a three step process which includes picking it up, physically placing it in front of your face, and then using your hand to gesture for unlock.

If we use the principle that any technology can improve by simplifying it's process, we can see that TouchID is actually the superior technology.

Strictly objective.

This makes zero sense.

Now FaceID. You have to pick up your phone, look at your phone, and swipe up. Three steps.

With the same logic, you can say Touch ID is also three steps: You have to pick up the phone, you have to look at your phone (otherwise what's the point of trying to use the phone??), and then you have to put your thumb on the sensor (which is not required for waking up the device).

I basically stopped reading at that line because it shows a massive error in logic. There are plenty of things that can be criticized when it comes to Face ID, but this ain't it. Try again.

 

[Derekeys]

Your wording seems to imply that "they" wasted your time. You chose to read through this topic, no one forced you to. Again, I would reiterate that if you don't care about the content of the post, you can just ignore it.

 

[ckurt25]

Does swiping wake the screen? I didn't know this, I thought this was a separate gesture from waking the device... that would change things for sure.
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It looks like we have the answer, and it's yes! From a review - https://www.tomsguide.com/us/iphone-x,review-4800.html

"Face ID worked when I had the iPhone X laying on my kitchen counter; I didn't need to pick the phone up to unlock it."

 

[Knowimagination]

Your wording seems to imply that "they" wasted your time. You chose to read through this topic, no one forced you to. Again, I would reiterate that if you don't care about the content of the post, you can just ignore it.

Or I can continue to respond however I want.

 

[Derekeys]

Oh man! I hope the implication is correct. But I'm interpreting that as "I didn't need to pick the phone up for Face ID to unlock the phone". I'm not reading that as swiping actually woke the phone, I'm betting when it's on a flat surface you have to still tap to wake (or hit the side button), swipe at some other point, and look at it to finally get to the home screen.

But that article sounds closer to what we've been talking about!
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Or I can continue to respond however I want.

You definitely can, but you have to admit, it doesn't make sense to imply that other people forced you to waste your time reading about something you didn't care about...

Then being rude about it in addition to that doesn't help your point which again was only to be mean about the fact that people cared about something that you didn't.

 

[Knowimagination]

Oh man! I hope the implication is correct. But I'm interpreting that as "I didn't need to pick the phone up for Face ID to unlock the phone". I'm not reading that as swiping actually woke the phone, I'm betting when it's on a flat surface you have to still tap to wake (or hit the side button), swipe at some other point, and look at it to finally get to the home screen.

But that article sounds closer to what we've been talking about!
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You definitely can, but you have to admit, it doesn't make sense to imply that other people forced you to waste your time reading about something you didn't care about...

Then being rude about it in addition to that doesn't help your point which again was only to be mean about the fact that people cared about something that you didn't.

First you will still have to do some type of tap to wake while the phone is laying down. I haven't seen anything to indicate that swiping will do anything if the screen isn't already on. The part in Bold is going to be the method as far as I can tell from all the reviews.

I have no issue with people caring about something I don't, I have issue with people who care about something to the extent that it makes them willingly misrepresent the thing they dislike to make it sound worse than it is.

 

[borgqueenx]

How is touch id better objectively other then speed? Face id is a tad slower then touch id but its the same operation. You grab your device and on the x you swipe up and on the touch id device you hold your finger on the home button.

 

[Derekeys]

First you will still have to do some type of tap to wake while the phone is laying down. I haven't seen anything to indicate that swiping will do anything if the screen isn't already on. The part in Bold is going to be the method as far as I can tell from all the reviews.

I have no issue with people caring about something I don't, I have issue with people who care about something to the extent that it makes them willingly misrepresent the thing they dislike to make it sound worse than it is.

Agreed there! I want Face ID to be awesome and it's annoying when people try to take prior bias and exaggerate. A big part of this discussion for me was figuring out if there was a "Rest to Unlock" equivalent for Face ID.

As in:

Wake > look > home screen.

Cuz right now, I can wake, unlock, and get to the home screen with one gesture on Touch ID from any angle regardless if I'm looking or not. Which in my opinion, and because of the reasons I just mentioned, makes Touch ID more convenient then Face ID.

That being said, I'll sacrifice some convenience for more screen real estate. I just would like the option. 🙂

 

[Knowimagination]

Agreed there! I want Face ID to be awesome and it's annoying when people try to take prior bias and exaggerate. A big part of this discussion for me was figuring out if there was a "Rest to Unlock" equivalent for Face ID.

As in:

Wake > look > home screen.

Cuz right now, I can wake, unlock, and get to the home screen with one gesture on Touch ID from any angle regardless if I'm looking or not. Which in my opinion, and because of the reasons I just mentioned, makes Touch ID more convenient then Face ID.

That being said, I'll sacrifice some convenience for more screen real estate. I just would like the option. 🙂

I understand so far it looks like there is no good replacement for rest to unlock. Although the videos I have seen where they swipe up before the phone makes it to their face makes it look really fast. Also turning off the eye tracking thing may help with some of the off axis stuff, but still won't be a true replacement.

 

[nilk]

Have we really gotten to the point in society where less than a second is something to bitch about? Honestly?

We've been there for quite a while now. As a general rule, if an action takes longer than 100ms, it'll have a perceptible negative reaction from the user.

On a mobile pocket device, this is amplified even further because you often want to pull your phone out, do something as quickly as you can, and return your attention to your surroundings (and possibly put the phone back in your pocket).

You can complain about how we as society have decided to integrate these devices into our lives to the point that being able to perform actions very quickly on them while walking is commonplace, but yes, that's where we're at.

 

[Derekeys]

I understand so far it looks like there is no good replacement for rest to unlock. Although the videos I have seen where they swipe up before the phone makes it to their face makes it look really fast. Also turning off the eye tracking thing may help with some of the off axis stuff, but still won't be a true replacement.

I bet you're right. Small adjustment, no biggie. We'll see Friday! 🙂 You ordering / ordered one? Last year Verizon had a great Black Friday deal which I hope they repeat this year. Trying my patience though, which as you can see from my complaining about less than a second difference for unlocking my phone is very thin. lol

 

[DiveKitty]

OP: "I fear change"
Almost everyone else: "Change is good. Change is coming. Embrace the change".

I really don't think the Face ID is going to be complicated. Yes, it will have a learning curve. Yes, it may not be perfect right out of the gate (neither was Tough ID...and it still isn't). But it has been made quite clear that you do not need to be staring directly at your phone for it to work. Even in the event that you are laying on your bed, and reaching over to check your phone you need to at some point direct your face somewhere in the direction of the phone to look at the very thing you wanted to check. To me placing your finger on for Touch ID, or swiping up the screen, is the same number of steps. Looking at your phone is not an extra step than you already do.

Now, if Apple switches to Toe ID, I will be like OP and talking about regressive technology. However, I still would not claim it was "objectively" regressive because some people may prefer accessing their phones with their feet.

 

[Knowimagination]

I bet you're right. Small adjustment, no biggie. We'll see Friday! 🙂 You ordering / ordered one? Last year Verizon had a great Black Friday deal which I hope they repeat this year. Trying my patience though, which as you can see from my complaining about less than a second difference for unlocking my phone is very thin. lol

Haha yes I’ve got a 256GB silver coming on Friday. May even take the day off to get it first thing in the morning from the hub.

 

[Derekeys]

UGH you lucky duck. Enjoy it! Drop a line on here on how that Face ID goes. I've been looking all day if swipe works to wake, or if there is a no swipe option.

 

[deany]

I think OP has a valid point, especially in the scenario where X is on a desk or table.
One question not answered to me yet: when used while X is on a desk, when does FaceID cease to work?
What is the angle (arc) of scan of FaceID?

 

[borgqueenx]

UGH you lucky duck. Enjoy it! Drop a line on here on how that Face ID goes. I've been looking all day if swipe works to wake, or if there is a no swipe option.

Would be nice to unlock without a swipe.

 

[PhoneI]

It certainly can be an extra step. Face ID doesn't work at extreme angles, such as if it's flat on a table and you are sitting away from it, or you pull it out of your pocket to glance at something in a meeting under the table to be discrete.

Face ID requires you to make eye contact with the notch, and is much more reliable when held 10-20 inches from your face, something which many people don't do when trying to be discrete.

Remains to be seen. Apple clearly showed a picture of FaceID working with the iPhone laying flat on the side of a pool.

Do you often use your iPhone now at extreme angles?
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This confuses me, have you really never just unlocked your phone at arm's reach while it was laying on a flat surface just to check something real quick without hovering your face over the front of the phone? Man, I must do this 10x a day, just hit the touch id real quick without "looking" at it (when I say looking I mean like... unlock with Face ID looking), and then just go about my business.

To me, having to orient yourself to face the phone in a way I would never consider with Touch ID for a quick check is absolutely an extra step.

In your defense, that is not majority of the time and during those times, yah, it wouldn't be a second thought. As a solution, I would love going to the home screen just by looking at woken screen (raise to wake for example).

Remains to be seen what angle FaceID supports. Like to see that tested

 

[tromboneaholic]

I want Face ID to be better than Touch ID, but right now it's easier to unlock with touch id because of the single move vs. multiple steps of Face ID. For something we all do 100s of times a day, I want Face ID to be on par with the tech it's replacing.

Swipe up. That’s it.

You can turn off the setting that requires “attention” or actively looking it at.

 

[mib1800]

Let's FaceID it. 🙂

FaceID technology has more physical limitations (which you can't do anything about) than TouchID.

- there are occasions when your face is not (completely) visible but you want to unlock
- there are occasions when your face is visible and you don't want to unlock (e.g picking phone up to put in pocket)
- bright light source shining on faceid camera
- (too many) other factors like make-up/glasses/accessories on your face or viewing angle or twins/siblings that look alike or people too close together - all these can cause recognition errors. Note: touchID just one factor - touched/non-touched.
- you are not in control - when/whether phone unlocks intentionally/unintentionally depends on many factors as above. TouchID - you are in direct control when you want to unlock by putting your finger on sensor.

 

[tromboneaholic]

Let's FaceID it. 🙂

FaceID technology has more physical limitations (which you can't do anything about) than TouchID.

- there are occasions when your face is not (completely) visible but you want to unlock
- there are occasions when your face is visible and you don't want to unlock (e.g picking phone up to put in pocket)
- bright light source shining on faceid camera
- (too many) other factors like make-up/glasses/accessories on your face or viewing angle or twins/siblings that look alike or people too close together - all these can cause recognition errors. Note: touchID just one factor - touched/non-touched.
- you are not in control - when/whether phone unlocks intentionally/unintentionally depends on many factors as above. TouchID - you are in direct control when you want to unlock by putting your finger on sensor.

Nothing I have seen or read supports this.

 

[Applejuiced]

Nothing I have seen or read supports this.

Reading or going by what Apple tells you that it will be perfect, magical and revolutionary and actually using it and putting all these situations and instances to the test are 2 different things. 😉

 

[tromboneaholic]

Reading or going by what Apple tells you that it will be perfect, magical and revolutionary and actually using it and putting all these situations and instances to the test are 2 different things. 😉

Correct, which is why I read every review/preview posted online out of curiosity.

Have you used the phone?

 

[ckurt25]

...TouchID - you are in direct control when you want to unlock by putting your finger on sensor.

Except when I get out of the shower.
Except when I am working out.
Except when I am in a hot tub or pool.
Except when I am wearing gloves.

TouchID is far from perfect.