I believe ravenvii said that there would be two games, the simple one and the one with the new rules and roles.
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[WW] The MRville Horror, Part 3 GAME OVER - Villagers Win!
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I believe ravenvii said that there would be two games, the simple one and the one with the new rules and roles.
What if we made the Shaman a passive role? He/she could function like a time bomb. In the event a vampire/werewolf attempts to kill the Shaman, they are cured? You could do different scenarios. Perhaps them being cured kills them. Or, perhaps it does not kill them, but they have some sort of amnesia that prevents them voting for and/or incriminating former brethren? Perhaps the Shaman also dies when attacked? (hence the time bomb).
There's an interesting dynamic there because they could be hung with the villagers none the wiser, but they can't speak up for themselves because then the vamps/wws will never touch them.
There's an interesting dynamic there because they could be hung with the villagers none the wiser, but they can't speak up for themselves because then the vamps/wws will never touch them.
I know. That's why it's up for discussion
Since there's so many players (by the way dukebound, you in?), I'm definitely eliminating the coroner, and keeping the two hunters. I think I'll add one more wolf, eliminate the shaman (too complex - maybe next game), and keep the vamps.
I might bring back the coroners next game, we'll see.
I'm unsure about the undead since the crappy PM system here doesn't have a PM-all. Do you guys mind using email for this game? If not, we'll have to figure out a way for the undead/vamps to communicate easily.
I say then let's scratch out the Shaaman until next time. As of now the Shaaman is creating more complications (try to solve how to work with healed) than actually helping.
By the way, I've created a simple WW game here. If you feel overwhelmed by the discussion here (I would too if I've not played a couple games already), this is for you. To be fair to others, please don't play in both games. If you want to switch, please say so in this thread that you've signed up for the other game. Thanks!
I know. That's why it's up for discussion
Since there's so many players (by the way dukebound, you in?), I'm definitely eliminating the coroner, and keeping the two hunters. I think I'll add one more wolf, eliminate the shaman (too complex - maybe next game), and keep the vamps.
I might bring back the coroners next game, we'll see.
I'm unsure about the undead since the crappy PM system here doesn't have a PM-all. Do you guys mind using email for this game? If not, we'll have to figure out a way for the undead/vamps to communicate easily.
no email please.
i think the undead should go, i don't think it adds much and makes everything slower.
so this is now officially Advanced W&W?
Not really, it's getting less confusing as we are now left with a modified hunter role, and vampires. The only question left is the undead. Once we settle that, the game begins.
If not the undead, that's cool with me, but I wish there's a way for dead players to still participate. I'll leave the undead up for a little further discussion, but if people don't like it, I'll eliminate it for now, and figure out a way for dead players to participate in the next game.
I'm sticking with the complex game.
As for the undead, perhaps they could continue to chat in the thread, but with a cipher that you create for them (teh speak of THE UNDEAD), that they know how to decode. The vampire head/goth would also know the cipher, but the decisions would ultimately be up to them so as they still need be the only ones exchanging PMs. They also would not need to post in the thread, exposing their identities, since they hold ultimate decision power.
This one could work:
http://rumkin.com/tools/cipher/bifid.php
It would be a lot of work to read all the posts though, so it would make being undead/vampire a bit of effort.
As for the undead, perhaps they could continue to chat in the thread, but with a cipher that you create for them (teh speak of THE UNDEAD), that they know how to decode. The vampire head/goth would also know the cipher, but the decisions would ultimately be up to them so as they still need be the only ones exchanging PMs. They also would not need to post in the thread, exposing their identities, since they hold ultimate decision power.
This one could work:
http://rumkin.com/tools/cipher/bifid.php
It would be a lot of work to read all the posts though, so it would make being undead/vampire a bit of effort.
Yeah, copy+pasting each post can become an utter pain in the ass, especially as the ranks of the undead grow. I'm actually thinking more of a temporary forum - one of those free forum sites where I can set up a secret forum for the vamps/undead. But it has to be easy to sign up for - no emails or confirmation or all that crap.
If that doesn't exist, the Undead role is scrapped for this round.
But the encryption idea can be an interesting one for a future role (two people that can speak to each other). But for now, that's out.
We're getting pretty close to the final rules, so if you want to switch over, you should do it now before I start the game.
Just curious, if dead players still get to participate then what's the point in trying to stay alive? I know it stinks to be one of the first few out as those votes are genuinely random, but if you can still impact the game after you're dead then we might as well not kill anyone.
On a tangential note, judging from the amount of analysis and direction that came from dead players in the last two games it's not like it really matters. You asked dead players not to provide information or influence, but it continued to happen. I would hope that this doesn't happen again. I guess it's okay if someone wants to post vote counts or historical facts, but I don't think players who are out should be posting guesses or influencing the players who are still in the game.
I think if you want players who are "out" of the game to stay interested and possibly play a role then you could consider a special role like a Priest that one time during the game can bring any dead character back to life. That might be cool... it certainly would make the undertaker role more important. And if you played with coroners and they were gone then there's always the risk that a fatal error in judgment brings back to life one of the lynched vampires or werewolves.
Sorry I keep throwing out crazy ideas, but that's how my analytical brain works. I haven't got a bit of work done today at the office.
Just curious, if dead players still get to participate then what's the point in trying to stay alive? I know it stinks to be one of the first few out as those votes are genuinely random, but if you can still impact the game after you're dead then we might as well not kill anyone.
On a tangential note, judging from the amount of analysis and direction that came from dead players in the last two games it's not like it really matters. You asked dead players not to provide information or influence, but it continued to happen. I would hope that this doesn't happen again. I guess it's okay if someone wants to post vote counts or historical facts, but I don't think players who are out should be posting guesses or influencing the players who are still in the game.
I think if you want players who are "out" of the game to stay interested and possibly play a role then you could consider a special role like a Priest that one time during the game can bring any dead character back to life. That might be cool... it certainly would make the undertaker role more important. And if you played with coroners and they were gone then there's always the risk that a fatal error in judgment brings back to life one of the lynched vampires or werewolves.
Sorry I keep throwing out crazy ideas, but that's how my anyalytical brain works. I haven't got a bit of work done today at the office.
That's definitely a cool idea. This post is tagged for the next game
And good point re: not actually "dying" bringing less impact to the game. And yes, the last game was a bit of a mess with dead players posting. Since I asked them to reduce their participation in the middle of the game, I couldn't really adjust the rules and enforce it. But thanks for reminding me - I'll emphasize that in the original post.
That's definitely a cool idea. This post is tagged for the next game
And good point re: not actually "dying" bringing less impact to the game. And yes, the last game was a bit of a mess with dead players posting. Since I asked them to reduce their participation in the middle of the game, I couldn't really adjust the rules and enforce it. But thanks for reminding me - I'll emphasize that in the original post.
Maybe we could combine the Priest with the Shaman? His ability to bring someone back is his active role, and his passive role is that anyone who attacks him does kill him, but they themselves die in the process? You could then have interesting scenarios where a ww/vamp tries to sacrifice themselves by killing him to prevent him from bringing someone back. For instance, if only vamps are left, they'd hate to see the vampire hunter come back
Ok, last question, I think.
Ravenvii have you considered how the order of night time events is going to work with all of these specials in addition to the wolves and vamps?
For example, let's say on a given night.
1. The seer scans mscriv
2. The werewolves choose to kill mscriv
3. The vampire wants to turn mscriv into a vampire
4. The hunter chooses to protect mscriv or worse yet chooses to kill him with his one shot kill
Are things simply going to happen in order based on when the specials get their PM instrctions to you (first come first serve) or is there some sort of system where certain actions trump others?
In the above example what would happen?
Would mscriv's identity be revealed to the seer and then he is killed by the werewolves? Is the vampire told that his/her attempt to turn mscriv has failed because upon arriving at his house all that was left was chewed remains. Is the hunter told that his attempt to protect mscriv failed because he was too late or in the case of the latter his attempt to kill is a big whiff because he was too late?
There are numerous ways all of these things could play out depending on the order in which they occur. And if something prevents a specials' action from occurring then do they get a second effort or did they lose their chance for that night or the game depending on the action taken. So, how do you sort it all out? I realize villagers will not be privy to this stuff in the midst of the game, but it could play into strategy if one is a special, wolf, or bloodsucker.
Ravenvii have you considered how the order of night time events is going to work with all of these specials in addition to the wolves and vamps?
For example, let's say on a given night.
1. The seer scans mscriv
2. The werewolves choose to kill mscriv
3. The vampire wants to turn mscriv into a vampire
4. The hunter chooses to protect mscriv or worse yet chooses to kill him with his one shot kill
Are things simply going to happen in order based on when the specials get their PM instrctions to you (first come first serve) or is there some sort of system where certain actions trump others?
In the above example what would happen?
Would mscriv's identity be revealed to the seer and then he is killed by the werewolves? Is the vampire told that his/her attempt to turn mscriv has failed because upon arriving at his house all that was left was chewed remains. Is the hunter told that his attempt to protect mscriv failed because he was too late or in the case of the latter his attempt to kill is a big whiff because he was too late?
There are numerous ways all of these things could play out depending on the order in which they occur. And if something prevents a specials' action from occurring then do they get a second effort or did they lose their chance for that night or the game depending on the action taken. So, how do you sort it all out? I realize villagers will not be privy to this stuff in the midst of the game, but it could play into strategy if one is a special, wolf, or bloodsucker.
Ok, last question, I think.
Ravenvii have you considered how the order of night time events is going to work with all of these specials in addition to the wolves and vamps?
For example, let's say on a given night.
1. The seer scans mscriv
2. The werewolves choose to kill mscriv
3. The vampire wants to turn mscriv into a vampire
4. The hunter chooses to protect mscriv or worse yet chooses to kill him with his one shot kill
Are things simply going to happen in order based on when the specials get their PM instrctions to you (first come first serve) or is there some sort of system where certain actions trump others?
In the above example what would happen?
Would mscriv's identity be revealed to the seer and then he is killed by the werewolves? Is the vampire told that his/her attempt to turn mscriv has failed because upon arriving at his house all that was left was chewed remains. Is the hunter told that his attempt to protect mscriv failed because he was too late or in the case of the latter his attempt to kill is a big whiff because he was too late?
There are numerous ways all of these things could play out depending on the order in which they occur. And if something prevents a specials' action from occurring then do they get a second effort or did they lose their chance for that night or the game depending on the action taken. So, how do you sort it all out? I realize villagers will not be privy to this stuff in the midst of the game, but it could play into strategy if one is a special, wolf, or bloodsucker.
Actually, in the past two games, there was a order. Basically good guys first, then bad guys. The vampires does throw in an interesting twist here, but let's see how it goes.
The order is/was:
Seer scans
Hunter protects
Werewolf kill.
Remember that the Hunter can insta-kill at any time, so that aspect is basically in real-time, not game-time, so the order doesn't matter as far as the hunter is concerned (same with the Alpha (infectious) werewolf's infection.
So in this game, it'll be:
Seer scans,
Hunters protect,
Goth scans,
Vampire scans,
(Vampire kill),
Werewolves eat.
(And no, that wasn't a poem
)
So, what if the vamp and werewolves try to kill the same person? Are the wolves too late and there will only be one kill that night or will they be given an opportunity behind the scenes (PM) to pick a new victim?
Then only one person dies that night.
EDIT: The rules are now final. I'll wait until morning to start the game, to give the different-time-zoners a chance to sign up. Something new this time; I will PM everyone when the game has begun, so everyone will know about it (no "whoa, the game has started? And I'm already dead?!"
)In the meanwhile, please take the time to read them and ask any questions.
Well after some reading it doesn't seem too complex. So if there is any room left then I'll switch back to the advanced game. Sorry, I'm indecisive.
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