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WWDC Keynote

I'm so happy, yet mad...

I have a 600mhz iBook... And no plans in the next 2 years to get a new computer. I think this announcement means that Apple will kill the G3 soon, and put G4's in iBooks. What I wish Apple would do, is make quartz extreme work on iBooks, even if it only takes half the load, it's still better than leaving all that processing to the CPU.

Rack-mount servers are good, 10.2 sounds awesome, QT6, iChat, and windows stuff... all cool.

Rendezvous, uh, I'm not sure how that will work. In a networking class I'm taking, we learned that if each computer tries to broadcast to find all the computers on a network, it would take a while for each computer to find every other computer, and it also slows down a network. It might work in a home environment, but not in a school, or major network... I'll say more, but i've gtg. I have to go to my next class...
 
Huh - I'm just noticing something subtle about iChat.

Rendezvous allows you to automatically discover other devices over IP for file sharing or whatever. Point being it's an easy way to build a dynamic network and join it on the client side, allowing an easy way to share resources. iChat apparently uses some of this technology, because it also has the ability to automatically discover other users on their local wired and wireless networks.

This is a fundamental departure from practically every other IM system I know of, because it can ground your chatting in the physical world by singling out the people near you. Not such a big deal in the wired world - but in the wireless world it could be huge, especially via the rumored pda-thingy. I'm predicting a matchmaking plugin for iChat in short order, not unlike that gadget they have in Japan but much better.
 
yep it's gonna suck

It's going to suck for most people (including me), but anyone who has spent a lot of time in X or had a chance to read through the developer news groups had to see Quartz Extreme coming. Extreme is a bad name. It should be Quartz Finally. Without the techie details, the Quartz engine was built so that no graphics card on the market could accelerate X UI elements by default. They moved from pushing bits to vectors. Two things could have happened. ATI and Nvidia could have created a new graphics chip that handled vectors. And we know they wouldn't do that. Or Apple had to rewrite the engine to fit the graphics cards. So you get Quartz Extreme. What this will probably mean in my case is that Java2D on OS X will finally work like it is supposed to. i.e. faster than a few frames per second.
 
Originally posted by G4scott


Rendezvous, uh, I'm not sure how that will work. In a networking class I'm taking, we learned that if each computer tries to broadcast to find all the computers on a network, it would take a while for each computer to find every other computer, and it also slows down a network. It might work in a home environment, but not in a school, or major network... I'll say more, but i've gtg. I have to go to my next class...
Click to expand...

Not to mention that broadcasts only work on your subnet. What would work (on a single subnet) could be something where:

A machine comes onto the network, sends a broadcast to a well known port (rendezvous port) if no one replies, it assumes that there are no neighbors and goes into rendezvous server mode.

When the next machines come up, they send a broadcast, and only the server replies, and gets the name of the new machine, and then sends a unicast to the new machine with the current table and a broadcast add to other machines to add the new machine. This way you would avoid flooding the table to all switch ports.

You could also have a server assert itself when it comes online to become the rendezvous server. Kind of a cross between WINS and OSPF. You might also have the machines send the rendezvous server/master keepalives say every 30 seconds or so (unicast) to keep the table updated. You could have the server wait 3 intervals (in case the keep alive got lost) and then send a broadcast to remove that machine from the clients rendezvous database.

Just an idea
 
Well that new os x page is handy...

So they're making the Finder, Address book, iChat, and mail.app all work together... I sense the videoconferencing app will also soon be integrated. This is all fine and good but I hope they leave ways for 3rd party products to tap into this. It's like choosing a default app for internet protocols, except this is more data oriented.

Take a close look at the sherlock picture - translation services too, woo! All those channels are things normally handled only on the web - how are they going to integrate them into an app like this, and what will be the limitations? Who WON'T be participating?

Ooh! Finder windows now have a fast find search field box! No more command-F, wait for sherlock to load for me! 'Bout time.

If Universal access allows us to magnify the whole screen, why can't us abled users be able to do the same with a larger desktop? (Or do the multi-desktop thing).

It occurs to me that the transition to IPv6 could be a lot less painful with Rendezvous as a standard.
 
Re: Re: Apple PR

Originally posted by cryptochrome
God, I'd settle for just being able to tap into the printer network! That'd make my life a lot easier.
Click to expand...
You've made my point! Apple MUST support Windows networking 100% if they want to get back into the corporate space! If I brought my OS X box to my workplace, I'd have to figure out how to get it to talk to our printers by either IP ala Unix lp printing or try to get AppleTalk printing turned on by our IS people. (That's probably not happening) With SMB support I can just plug it in and go to work.
 
Spymac's report

Just finished reading spymac's report of the announcements -- they point out: NO more need for DAVE. That alone is worth the price of upgrade.
 
wheeee

OH JOY, OH GLORIOUS JOY, PATIENCE DOES PAY OFF!!!!

Its like that Guns N' Roses song: "All you need is just a little patience....."

I have been using a Macintosh Powerbook G3 (bronze keyboard) since 1999...it's about time for some shopping!!!

Oh, and if you want to have access to Windows networks, can't you use DAVE?

oh and btw Guns N' Roses absolutely rules over the universe (old Guns, naturally)
 
Originally posted by cryptochrome


It occurs to me that the transition to IPv6 could be a lot less painful with Rendezvous as a standard.
Click to expand...

Actually IPv6 is not very painful for the user. It is actually very easy from the user perspective, you basically enable it, and it does everything for you.

Also cool is that each host will have multiple IPs
Link-layer
link-local
multicast interface-local
multicast link local

What we need is a v6 backbone. The Internet 2 is going native v6 soon, so those in Universities will be able to use it without (slow) tunnels.

IE6 for windows supports v6, I hope that Apple Apps will be v6 aware when they release 10.2
 
A couple of things-

Check out the OS X page for Jaguar:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/

Sherlock 3, Address Book and iChat all sport the iTunes brushed metal UI rather than pinstripes...

Servers:
Fantastic! I can barely wait a week to see what they come out with!

Quartz Extreme:
All of you iBook/iMac owners are complaining, but as a rev a TiBook owner I feel left out too. My Rage Mobility card with 8MB of VRAM won't be able to take advantage of these features...hell the rev b models won't even be able to! Why can't they make the code more efficient rather than require faster hardware? I hate to see Apple going the route of bloatware just to pretty up the GUI.
 
Apple's 10.2 info page

On Apple's 10.2 info page, the following footnote appears regarding Quartz Extreem supported video cards:
*nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance.
Click to expand...
Notice the "recommeded" word next to the RAM requirement. Hmmmmm
Could this mean that the just obsoleted TiBooks and current iBooks will get some benefits?
 
Would iChat and videoconferencing flow from the same software?
If the QT6 integrates with iChat?

Boy, wouldn't that take chatting to the next level?
Great for businesses too.
 
Watson is really cool, and I paid for it. Based on the Apple OSX page, it looks like the new Sherlock has either copied or bought rights to Watson (although the appearance is different).
 
am i correct in assuming that any machine older than a quicksilver will not take advantage of Quartz Extreme?

damn.. there are going to be some pissed off people..

C-
 
Re: Apple's 10.2 info page

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
On Apple's 10.2 info page, the following footnote appears regarding Quartz Extreem supported video cards:

Notice the "recommeded" word next to the RAM requirement. Hmmmmm
Could this mean that the just obsoleted TiBooks and current iBooks will get some benefits?
Click to expand...

Oh man I hope so! Hopefully, there will be some clarification soon on this. I already felt stiffed on buying my Rev B 667 right before the new ones came out. This 32 DDR is another kick in the stomach while I'm down, if it is a requirement.
 
With the capabilities of Quartz Extreme, that would seem to give Aqua new life, for those who thought it was going to be dropped.
 
INK not Inkwell.

Apple says it requires an "input tablet"...

Is that a "digital lifestyle" device? Or something for graphics artists only? Or Apple's version of a PDA?
 
Too Cool

Originally posted by sjs
INK not Inkwell.

Apple says it requires an "input tablet"...

Is that a "digital lifestyle" device? Or something for graphics artists only? Or Apple's version of a PDA?
Click to expand...

What would be cool is to see a version OS X for handheld devices. An OS X for Devices for lack of a better name that could be licensed to 3rd party manufacturers. Moving Darwin to the handheld CPUs shouldn't be to hard.
 
It's because of Jaguar that I won't upgrade my computer. I have a Sawtooth G4 (400 MHz, 768MB RAM, 50 GB HD). I put a Radeon into my computer a year ago, with 32MB of RAM. So, I'll see a HUGE performance increase, which should hold me over until the second revision G5s. The use of the video card will accelerate Internet Explorer, the Finder, and just about ever app you use. It is going to be really nice. As for the iBooks, I see an update in store for them in the next month or two. As of right now, they can run Jaguar, but the new Quartz won't be fully supported.

-Jim
 
Whiners:

Are Mac users a particularly whiny bunch, or what?!

For every G3 tower owner complaining about not being able to use Quartz Extreme: BUY A NEW GRAPHICS CARD! If you took the time to look, it seems as if you could easily buy a new nVidia PCI graphics card, out of the ones mentioned in the footnote, and take advantage of the new graphics system.

As for the laptop owners who are complaing: Boo freaking hoo. Anyone who expects Apple to support all machines, especially those at the bottom of the scale, in every new feature release is a delusional fool. It's not like OS X will suddenly stop working. You simply won't have access to all of the possible power. Which is to be expected, if you have a lower-end machine. Get over it.

Also, for anyone saying that this wasn't a big WWDC keynote... What are you smoking? ;) Seriously, Apple just announced A RACK SERVER, people! That is perhaps the biggest news out of Apple IN YEARS.

They also finally announced how they plan to use Inkwell technology. Hardware acceleration for OS X. A new iApp. New Sherlock. And a host of other cool stuff. Uhm, this was a HUGE day in Apple history! Geez...
 
Re: Whiners:

Originally posted by nickgold
Are Mac users a particularly whiny bunch, or what?!

For every G3 tower owner complaining about not being able to use Quartz Extreme: BUY A NEW GRAPHICS CARD! If you took the time to look, it seems as if you could easily buy a new nVidia PCI graphics card, out of the ones mentioned in the footnote, and take advantage of the new graphics system.

As for the laptop owners who are complaing: Boo freaking hoo. Anyone who expects Apple to support all machines, especially those at the bottom of the scale, in every new feature release is a delusional fool. It's not like OS X will suddenly stop working. You simply won't have access to all of the possible power. Which is to be expected, if you have a lower-end machine. Get over it.

Also, for anyone saying that this wasn't a big WWDC keynote... What are you smoking? ;) Seriously, Apple just announced A RACK SERVER, people! That is perhaps the biggest news out of Apple IN YEARS.

They also finally announced how they plan to use Inkwell technology. Hardware acceleration for OS X. A new iApp. New Sherlock. And a host of other cool stuff. Uhm, this was a HUGE day in Apple history! Geez...
Click to expand...

Extreme requires AGP 2X.
 
Originally posted by jbouklas
It's because of Jaguar that I won't upgrade my computer. I have a Sawtooth G4 (400 MHz, 768MB RAM, 50 GB HD). I put a Radeon into my computer a year ago, with 32MB of RAM. So, I'll see a HUGE performance increase, which should hold me over until the second revision G5s. The use of the video card will accelerate Internet Explorer, the Finder, and just about ever app you use. It is going to be really nice. As for the iBooks, I see an update in store for them in the next month or two. As of right now, they can run Jaguar, but the new Quartz won't be fully supported.

-Jim
Click to expand...

Amen! I own a 450 G4 Sawtooth with the original Rage 128 AGP card. Not even a Rage 128 Pro, mind you. Now I am definitely going to pick up one of the old 32MB Radeon AGP 2x cards (even if they are still overpriced -- or have they come down yet?) This OS X update will breathe new life into my ageing desktop, and I for one am EXCITED AS ALL HECK! :D Heheheh So now we will be able to resist the almighty G5 rev1 when they become available at some point in the (presumably) near future. Whoohoo!
 
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