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Re: Fat Tony...

Originally posted by mhodgso2
Did you really just say that Apple is updating too quickly??????? That is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. Obviously you don't look very closely at the PC market.

Regards,
Matt

They seem to focus on small updates(i.e. a combo drive in the Tibook and larger screen on one version of the ibook) instead of putting forth the effort into doing a complete major hardware update that doesn't need mini-updates. Lets see how long it will be before a new Ti comes out with Bluetooth built in. Late summer when Jaguar arrives in possibly 3 months??

I'm all for new hardware don't get me wrong and love reading rumors behind it. But Macs aren't cheap PCs which they churn out constantly. I'm just saying Apple should do large sweeping updates to hardware that puts them ahead of PCs and then banging out OS updates faster instead of focusing on small hardware updates.
 
Re: Relax!

Originally posted by mhodgso2
For all you G3, older mac people (AKA people who can't use quartz extreem), how about you just pretend it doesn't exsist. Before today you had no hope of ever running X any faster than it does now. Obviously...since you bought the computer in the first place, you thought that it was cool and it ran the OS at a decent speed. So to say now that you wont be able to run it at a good speed is rediculous. X will probably never run any faster than it does now on your machine, but it will probably never run slower either. Also, you boight those computers (iMac, iBook, TiBook) knowing that it was impossible to upgrade the graphics and processor. If you want that, buy a tower. Thats just the way it is. Thats the way its always been. X will never get faster for you......but you obviously thought the speed was ok when you bought it.

Guess what. Rev A and B PowerBook users are left out in the cold too. Guess what, buddy boy, those have G4 processors. Do those qualify as "older macs"? Please. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re: Re: Whiners:

Originally posted by nickgold


If you think an iBook qualifies as "top of the line," you are sadly mistaken. It is actually the very lowest-end Mac available, out of their available products. You can't expect it to take advantage of every single aspect of the OS, which is designed to run on a variety of machines, from old iMacs, all the way up to the newest machines.

Also, for everyone who complains about the current state of the finder, I say shove off. I have been using OS X for a long time now on my G4 450 Sawtooth, and the speed of the finder has always been perfectly acceptable to me. SUre, I will love an improvement, but to imply that the finder is currently unusable is the biggest load of crap I've ever witnessed outside of my trip to the rest room this morning. Man, was that a stinker.

Let me clarify for you. I bought the top of the line iBook. The 600 mhz G3 with the combo drive. I did not buy a refurbed 2 year old unit. Neither was my iMac. It was tops. They were both the tops of the consumber line when they were purchased. So what you are advocating is that Apple can sell a machine to someone and then a month later tell that person that the HARDWARE that they bought from Apple will not be supported by the SOFTWARE? Dude, it doesn't take a slide ruler to figure out that that logic is really screwed. I am not talking about an iMac 350 (although I really feel for those people), I am talking about a system that shipped with iPhoto on it, and X.1.3! That is why I am bent out of shape.

Oh, and your right the finder is perfectly fast when browsing a folder with oh, 100 files in column mode, or less than 20 thumbnailed photos. Lets sit, wait, watch, have a smoke and meal while I wait for the window to open and the cd to stop spinning when I open the folder with my 4,000 MP3's!

Oh, and one last thing, high school humor is not respected here.
 
Re: Relax!

Originally posted by mhodgso2
For all you G3, older mac people (AKA people who can't use quartz extreem), how about you just pretend it doesn't exsist. Before today you had no hope of ever running X any faster than it does now. Obviously...since you bought the computer in the first place, you thought that it was cool and it ran the OS at a decent speed. So to say now that you wont be able to run it at a good speed is rediculous. X will probably never run any faster than it does now on your machine, but it will probably never run slower either. Also, you boight those computers (iMac, iBook, TiBook) knowing that it was impossible to upgrade the graphics and processor. If you want that, buy a tower. Thats just the way it is. Thats the way its always been. X will never get faster for you......but you obviously thought the speed was ok when you bought it.

Regards,
Matt

point point point ... ten points 4 the newbie!!

(i have a 400 tibook [no quartzo extremo para mi], but what the heck, i still have my dualGhz to play around with it ... after i decided to skip the 933hz because i supposed that future os updates would need more processing power ...bingo ... btw my tibook can't also render realtime effects in finalcut3 ... wth i still love apple stuff!]:D
 
Re: Extr. Qtz. hmmm!

Originally posted by eirik


I can't believe that Rower is the only poster to raise this point about more efficient code.

This extreme Quartz both worries and excites me. BeOS achieved a fast, rich GUI without requirements for an accelerator card. Is MacOS X so constrained with legacies that Apple cannot radically improve performance without an accelerator card?

Now as for those with about AGP x2, my impression of this Extreme Quartz news is that you won't enjoy the kind of accelerated GUI performance that those with the right video card would. I'm sure Apple is working to optimize its code so that there will be significant performance increases with Jaguar.

In an interview with some dude from nVidia, this guru said that the next battle ground would have something to do with anti-aliasing, smoothing the graphics displayed whereas frames per second and other metrics were the battlefield.

It may be that Apple is both looking to accelerate its GUI but also enhance it in terms of quality.

As for moving from vector graphics to OpenGL, I believe that statement is incorrect. Yes, Quartz will be totally OpenGL based, it sounds like. But that doesn't mean there won't be vector operations. At the least, the OpenGL API's/functions will execute as vector graphics. How can one achieve high performance without vector/matrix operations? Graphics and other multimedia just SCREAM for parallel execution.

Eirik

I'm not sure if you were replying to my post or not Eirik. But I didn't mean to imply they were moving from vector graphics to OpenGL. What I meant to say was that Apple has to map Quartz calls to OpenGL. Quartz's 2D Engine is based on PDF. No graphics card I know of accelerates PDF in anyway shape or form. The only way to achieve a performance boost then is to map those 2D calls to OpenGL.
 
Nvidia PCI

Oh, one more thing. Newborn. Do me a favor. Send us the specs on that super non-existant Nvidia PCI card for Macs. There are only a small handfull for Windows, and you know what FRIGGIN ZERO for Macs. So all of the old G4's with PCI are on the S.S. Take it Up the Rear also.

Sorry it took so long to catch this one Rower.
 
O_O ooo new quartz

does anybody know if I can jam a GeForce 4 TI in my dual 500 G4? I can't find the page to see if it's the AGP version
 
I didn't see anything that said you need MORE processor power (dual 1 Ghz v. 933) to run the update--it's simply in the graphics, no?

all that aside, I'd really like to see Apple work more on the overall speed of X rather than work on more bells and whistles (iChat!?). from my informal polling, it's X's sluggishness that is keeping many people away.

quartz will improve the GUI eye candy, but what about some backbone boosting?
 
:eek: For whomever said that iBooks do not have AGP, the new iBooks have 2x AGP with 8mb VRAM. Just letting you know.

I just hope that quartz extreme will still work on graphics cards with less memory, since Apple's page just says that those specs are reccomended. At least it would help with some of the processing...

Does anybody know how much Quartz Extreme will help the iTunes visualizer? It would be really cool to have that thing going at 100 fps :D

My idea about the Ink software: Expect a tablet computer, or something with a touch screen in the near future. Why else would Apple make software for such a small product niche when other software exists allready? Now, as far as iPhoto is concerned in this same aspect, I wonder if Apple's making a digital camera...

BTW, what ever happened to that HTML editor that came with the Mac OS X Public Beta? I could really use that right now...
 
Originally posted by cryptochrome
A better mail huh? I hope it imports eudora files better. I have a whole slew of semi-complictated filters, mailboxes full of highlighted files, and to top it off I keep my replies in the same boxes as the messages I recieve. (Makes going over old emails much easier, that's for sure - though I think even Eudora gets confused over them in some situations easily). When I tried to move to mail.app before the results were... unpleasant.

This post needs to be flagged by Apple internal software development and by external mail developers.

Were ANY server details released?

Rocketman
 
One more reason to upgrade to Ti 800mhz

Finally, its time to upgrade my TiBook 550 Mhz which I bought just 6 months ago to new 800 Mhz Tibook i guess..according to the spec in eveymac.com, it has got a ATI Mobility Radeon (AGP 4X) video controller with 16 MB of DDR video.. Does any one know 32 MB is a must for 10.2 upgrade?
 
Re: Whiners:

Originally posted by nickgold
Are Mac users a particularly whiny bunch, or what?!

For every G3 tower owner complaining about not being able to use Quartz Extreme: BUY A NEW GRAPHICS CARD! If you took the time to look, it seems as if you could easily buy a new nVidia PCI graphics card, out of the ones mentioned in the footnote, and take advantage of the new graphics system.

As for the laptop owners who are complaing: Boo freaking hoo. Anyone who expects Apple to support all machines, especially those at the bottom of the scale, in every new feature release is a delusional fool. It's not like OS X will suddenly stop working. You simply won't have access to all of the possible power. Which is to be expected, if you have a lower-end machine. Get over it.

Also, for anyone saying that this wasn't a big WWDC keynote... What are you smoking? ;) Seriously, Apple just announced A RACK SERVER, people! That is perhaps the biggest news out of Apple IN YEARS.

They also finally announced how they plan to use Inkwell technology. Hardware acceleration for OS X. A new iApp. New Sherlock. And a host of other cool stuff. Uhm, this was a HUGE day in Apple history! Geez...

Well said. The server news will bring vertical market developers and applications (science, medicine, IT, etc).

The inkwell will allow those many users already using tablets in lieu of other pointing devices as primary input to visit the keybpoard less often and those with special non-character applications (chinese) to actually use a mac. There are a few chinese and asians out there wanting to use Macs folks, like 3 times as many as in the US and no peecee adoption issues because a peecee CAN'T DO IT AT ALL.

Somebody keep posting server news and links.

Rocketman
 
Quartz Extreme is really something to look forward to...

nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance.

I've just read the whole Jaguar page on the apple site and it seems to emphasise the use of AGP cards for it work, I think that put's the idea of adding a Radeon card to an older PCI based mac to accellerate the Quartz engine out of the window but it's an amazing idea regardless of the fact some of us with older macs or lower end models can't benfit from it.

The whole interface of OS X is prerendered from the look of it, now it's actually rendered in realtime we're going to see some very cool improvements on both the speed and on the interface in general, I imagine it will seriously accellerate applications such as photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign, scrolling around a large 400% zoomed layout or image is going to be so much smoother it will be like having a whole new mac. Not that it won't also benefit us music types too, I think with the whole interface offloaded to the graphics card, once Digidesign bring out an OS X version of Protools LE and TDM the plug-in count could improve, even over the OS 9 version given the more efficient memory and cpu cycle management of OS X.

I'm probably not the only one who occassionally quits the finder in OS 9 with an applescript to give maximum CPU time to an application, with the new Quartz engine, the OS won't be using much CPU time at all and OS X will probably deliver more CPU cycles to applications, making any mac with the correct video card perform much more efficiently.

:D if you want to go faster!
 
Re: Nvidia PCI

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Oh, one more thing. Newborn. Do me a favor. Send us the specs on that super non-existant Nvidia PCI card for Macs. There are only a small handfull for Windows, and you know what FRIGGIN ZERO for Macs. So all of the old G4's with PCI are on the S.S. Take it Up the Rear also.

Sorry it took so long to catch this one Rower.

It's funny how you expect the world at large to care about the fact that you won't be able to use this new feature with your computer. heheheh... Guess what... We don't! :p Nyah nyah nyah pooh pooh on YOU.

;)

Feel free to commiserate with the rest of the schmucky Mac-users out there, though, who expect to be personally catered to every time a company updates their products.

Oh and here's a free tip... Why don't you try subdividing your 4000 MP3s into subfolders, you might be able to scan through them faster with the finder.... Geez. Ignoramus?
 
nVidia

Didn't someone from nVidia recently indicate that they would be releasing a 'kick-ass' new video card around August that would leave the rest of the video card makers in the dust?

Let's see, nVidia new video card(s) in August and Jaguar end of summer. Hmmm!

Eirik
 
Re: Re: Nvidia PCI

Originally posted by nickgold


It's funny how you expect the world at large to care about the fact that you won't be able to use this new feature with your computer. heheheh... Guess what... We don't! :p Nyah nyah nyah pooh pooh on YOU.

;)

Feel free to commiserate with the rest of the schmucky Mac-users out there, though, who expect to be personally catered to every time a company updates their products.

Oh and here's a free tip... Why don't you try subdividing your 4000 MP3s into subfolders, you might be able to scan through them faster with the finder.... Geez. Ignoramus?

Well here we go. Figured this would become a flamewar. Look, I don't give a damn if you care about my problems, I don't care about yours. What I can say is that the over four million iMac G3 users, all the iBook users, Rev A and B and yes C TiBook users will be getting the shaft from Apple.

Go upgrade your damn tower and be happy, you did not get screwed. We however did IGNORAMUS! Furthermore, I don't have time to divide my MP3's into sub folders, nor should I have to. I didn't in 9, and I shouldn't in X. We (G3 owners) have been told by Apple from jump that our machines would be fully, let me say that again FULLY supported in X. Many of the original G3 owners are in the boat already, and now ALL of us will be in a few months.

The thing that I find sooo funny is everytime there is something that can be used by PC zealots to get a rise out of us, the posts start coming. Go sit in a dark room and play with your uber machine that you have. We who have just shelled out our money for tech that will be made obsolete through SOFTWARE, not hardware advances, will have to take the big one up the unpleasant highway.

So zip it, shut up, and go away. I have tried to be as constructive as I can and explain the frustration, but you are obviously to dense to get it.
 
Re: Re: Re: Nvidia PCI

Originally posted by Backtothemac


Well here we go. Figured this would become a flamewar. Look, I don't give a damn if you care about my problems, I don't care about yours. What I can say is that the over four million iMac G3 users, all the iBook users, Rev A and B and yes C TiBook users will be getting the shaft from Apple.

Go upgrade your damn tower and be happy, you did not get screwed. We however did IGNORAMUS! Furthermore, I don't have time to divide my MP3's into sub folders, nor should I have to. I didn't in 9, and I shouldn't in X. We (G3 owners) have been told by Apple from jump that our machines would be fully, let me say that again FULLY supported in X. Many of the original G3 owners are in the boat already, and now ALL of us will be in a few months.

The thing that I find sooo funny is everytime there is something that can be used by PC zealots to get a rise out of us, the posts start coming. Go sit in a dark room and play with your uber machine that you have. We who have just shelled out our money for tech that will be made obsolete through SOFTWARE, not hardware advances, will have to take the big one up the unpleasant highway.

So zip it, shut up, and go away. I have tried to be as constructive as I can and explain the frustration, but you are obviously to dense to get it.

Fully supported in software development land means that functionally everything works. Which it does/will. It doesn't mean you will get optimal performance. I'm running X on a Beige G3. It is fully supported. It works. That's just how it works in the computer world. Software advances require hardware advances and vice versa. Like I said in a previous post, Apple had to make Quartz Extreme. It was the only way to get decent performance out of the graphics subsystem.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Nvidia PCI

Originally posted by gjohns01


Fully supported in software development land means that functionally everything works. Which it does/will. It doesn't mean you will get optimal performance. I'm running X on a Beige G3. It is fully supported. It works. That's just how it works in the computer world. Software advances require hardware advances and vice versa. Like I said in a previous post, Apple had to make Quartz Extreme. It was the only way to get decent performance out of the graphics subsystem.

I agree, and no offense, but dude, how old is your machine? Mine is less than two months old. ;)
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nvidia PCI

Originally posted by Backtothemac


I agree, and no offense, but dude, how old is your machine? Mine is less than two months old. ;)

LOL. I honestly don't know. I got it from my old job 2 years ago. I guess it's 3 years old. Haven't gotten around to getting a new Mac. Most of my development work has gone server-side, so I'm PC bound now.
 
Re: Re: Nvidia PCI

Originally posted by nickgold
It's funny how you expect the world at large to care about the fact that you won't be able to use this new feature with your computer. heheheh... Guess what... We don't! :p Nyah nyah nyah pooh pooh on YOU.

;)

Feel free to commiserate with the rest of the schmucky Mac-users out there, though, who expect to be personally catered to every time a company updates their products.

Oh and here's a free tip... Why don't you try subdividing your 4000 MP3s into subfolders, you might be able to scan through them faster with the finder.... Geez. Ignoramus?

Listen, flamebait, try to keep things at least at the high school level (if you can). Nyah nyah nyah?!? WTF!?!?!? Are you 5 years old?

Who's this "we" that you refer to? Your Daddy who's buying the machine for you? Plunk down your own hard-earned cash and see how you feel.

This isn't about being personally catered to (although a company who makes the hardware AND the software could at least make an attempt). This is about Apple choosing to bump hardware requirements rather than rewrite their bloated code.

So please go piss your bed somewhere else, infant.
 
Re: Re: Re: Nvidia PCI

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Listen, flamebait, try to keep things at least at the high school level (if you can). Nyah nyah nyah?!? WTF!?!?!? Are you 5 years old?

Who's this "we" that you refer to? Your Daddy who's buying the machine for you? Plunk down your own hard-earned cash and see how you feel.

This isn't about being personally catered to (although a company who makes the hardware AND the software could at least make an attempt). This is about Apple choosing to bump hardware requirements rather than rewrite their bloated code.

So please go piss your bed somewhere else, infant.

Scene: Bottom of the ninth, two outs, bases loaded, Rower at the plate. The count is three balls and two strikes. Smart people down by three runs...

The pitch a hanging curve and Rower swings... It's a long drive to deep center field. It looks like a homer Simpson, because the pitcher just went Dolt!

Thanks for checking my back Rower.
 
let's keep it civil guys....

arn
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Nvidia PCI

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Scene: Bottom of the ninth, two outs, bases loaded, Rower at the plate. The count is three balls and two strikes. Smart people down by three runs...

The pitch a hanging curve and Rower swings... It's a long drive to deep center field. It looks like a homer Simpson, because the pitcher just went Dolt!

Thanks for checking my back Rower.

I'm always good for a clutch tater. :D
 
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