Yes, your MacBook Pro is running too hot, and yes, it is Apple's fault.

[maflynn]

Both sides have valid points

Agreed, its not a black and white issue. Many MBPS old and new have zero heat problems.

Additionally, I've personally experienced and read numerous threads of people replacing the thermal compound because they've read how sloppy and improper the application was, yet only save a few degrees with the re-application of the thermal compound.

Finally, there are people who's machines seem to run hotter then others, and most people generally don't push a machine to run at 100% CPU on their normal day to day tasks.

All in all, YMMV and if you think your computer is running too hot, take it into apple and let them deal with it if its in warranty.

 

[cirus]

Throttling

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-Retina-2-3-GHz-Mid-2012.78959.0.html

This test wouldn't be complete if we didn't address the subject of throttling. Prime 95 and Furmark can extract the maximum performance out of the hardware. When both programs are run simultaneously, the core frequency drops (caused by Prime 95) to 1.2 Ghz. Running Prime 95 alone, we measured temperatures between 92 and 104 degrees Celsius (197.6 and 219.2 degrees Fahrenheit), and the word "Throttling" flashes repeatedly in HWiNFO. Furmark on its own cycles through all available Turbo Boost steps. After about one hour, the temperature settled at a fairly consistent 85 degrees Celsius (185 degrees Fahrenheit) with the fan system running. We never measured above 100 degrees Celsius (212 degrees Fahrenheit) with Furmark. This limitation might be due to the power adapter: in the above scenario, the system would require 86.6 watts - but the power adapter can only supply a maximum of 85 watts. Immediately after running our different tests, we subjected the system to 3DMark 06 and CineBench R11.5. The results were identical to after a cold boot.

 

[Weaselboy]

I don't think it's anything like that. The only counterpoints being made are that the temperatures are within acceptable limits (per Intel, etc.), and that the cost/sourcing of heatsinks lapped to a mirror finish is prohibitive. You'd have to find or outfit a factory to produce these heatsinks. The variability in lapping quality would limit the average improvement to 7-10 degrees at best. They aren't unreasonable points; you may disagree, but that doesn't turn those posters into Apple apologists--just pragmatists. Posting this information is helpful, and may encourage a few users to lap the heatsinks in their macbook pro. Expecting Apple to drop 50-100 million dollars to drop the temperatures of the processor by a few degrees however is a little silly.

I don't see the OP suggesting Apple hire Tibetan monks to hand lap heat sinks. As I read his suggestion, Doward is saying he was able to lower heat by lapping his heat sink, and perhaps Apple could find a reasonable way to mimic this outcome by better manufacturing methods.

Now if you and others suspect Apple would have little success with that or it is not necessary or reasonable, that's just fine and you are certainly entitled to politely state your case. I just see some of the posts here (not all) as going beyond that, particularly when it starts with the insults. Questioning anything Apple does seems to bring this behavior out in some forum members. There also have been some posts you may have missed that were removed by the moderators.

I don't want to derail the thread any further lecturing about manners, so I'll bow out.

 

[Feed Me]

Wow, I really wasn't expecting so many Apple apologists in this thread. Scum!

Here's the laptop cooler I use to keep my MacBook cool. I know it may seem like overkill, but once or twice a year I render a home movie or something and I get really angry when my laptop warms up!!

You just sit yourself at the other end of the laptop cooler, and plug the cooler into your Mac's USB port to power the fan up. It gets a bit noisy, but it's completely worth it for the cooling.

Plus, depending on load, I've been known to reach mach 2 with this cooler, and I recommend it wholeheartedly.

The small San francisco startup that makes these coolers actually individually hand-machine each fan blade, so you get perfect rotation and balanced speeds that can give up to 0.05ºC of extra cooling!


I used to notice that my MacBook got hot when I put it under load (Apple at their trickery again) but this cooler seriously solved all my problems, and I now run at about 70ºC instead of 73ºC. Well worth the investment.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to do another clean install of Mountain Lion, and then I'm going to defragment my SSD collection.

 

[jesaja]

This thread has some good content.

I think on both sides people got a little too emotional and heated.

Maybe they ought to polish their heatsinks, too...

 

[Doward]

Love the turbine cooler

 

[jmdMac]

...

We all know that if we need to run processor intensive stuff for days to get a desktop (or a MacPro, since an imac is essentially a big laptop). However many people (yourself likely included) do use MBPs for intensive work multiple times a day and if improving the heatsink allows better cooling (thus a cooler laptop that runs better or can have better parts), then so much the better. The OP is completely logical and is discussing improved heat sink contact, not liquid cooling or anything unlikely in a laptop

I also find it especially annoying how you also say most MBPs are used for light work and web browsing, which not mean that MBPs should not be designed for professional, hard work. And alluding to your quote above, buying a Mac Book Pro for heavy use, even video encoding, is not inappropriate. A MBP should have the best cooling.

....

Couldn't agree more.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

I'm not saying that. The question to ask is "this computer is meant to be 100% utilized for what purpose?" No computer is designed to run at maximum capacity for all, or even most of the time. If your workload demands 100% utilization from a MBP most of the time, you should have bought a computer that can handle that workload at something less, such as 75% of capacity.

A $324 Acer from best buy can run prime95 all day without throttling, so why can't a $2000+ 2011 Macbook Pro? It IS asinine.

Any well designed computer program, when asked to do something complicated, will use 100% of the CPU. That is what the CPU is there for. If the laptop cannot handle the CPU at 100% usage, then that CPU should not be in that laptop.

It's like the laptops that used the desktop Pentium 4 in 2001-2002 before the P4-m came out. The P4 desktop CPU had no place in a laptop. A lot of P4 CPUs had no place in a desktop either with how hot they ran. It was ridiculous that someone had the idea to use a P4 desktop CPU in a laptop. What makes this suck is that this is indeed a laptop CPU being used inside of a laptop, so it's not really the CPU's fault. It is the design of the laptop. Even those hilarious laptops using P4 desktop CPUs in 2002 weren't throttling, but it's ok for a high end laptop that uses a laptop CPU in 2013 to? A full sized laptop? No way.

We're not even talking a Macbook Air or some sleek concept laptop. This is a full size laptop with two high RPM fans in it.

If the laptop's CPU cannot be used to 100% usage without throttling, one of two things should happen.

a) A less powerful CPU that runs cooler should be used instead.
b) A better cooling system should be put into the machine.

You're right, a laptop shouldn't be used to run folding@home 24/7.... but a laptop should be able to do 5-10 minutes of 100% CPU usage without throttling.

Especially at $2000!​

This is not about senselessly bashing Apple products. This is about raising awareness of real issues in the hopes that they will be solved. If a $2000 standard size laptop computer that throttles when the CPU actually gets used is not seen as a problem, that is bad. A problem that goes unacknowledged can never be solved.

 

[Ethosik]

I am confused here. So the Macbook Pro should not be used for any intensive work?

Why do I need a 2.7Ghz i7 with 16GB of ram just to surf the web? Shouldn't the MBP be able to handle video rendering, Photoshop and stuff like that?

When I had a 2009 MBP, I used to use After Effects on it. It would sometimes get above 100 degrees celsius. It never gave me any issues.

Also, I have had Dell's burn my lap too. They all run hot.

 

[GGJstudios]

A $324 Acer from best buy can run prime95 all day without throttling, so why can't a $2000+ 2011 Macbook Pro?

So common sense would suggest that if you intend to run prime95 all day, the Acer would be a more appropriate choice. Price has nothing to do with it. Price doesn't equal capability, even if you think it should. There are countless examples of products that cost far more than more capable less expensive alternatives. If I want a car that has the capability of a Camaro or Corvette, I shouldn't buy a Mercedes and then complain that the Mercedes doesn't perform like the Camaro or Corvette, even though it may cost more.

A prudent user should determine their intended use for a computer, then research and buy a computer that meets those needs. Just because a computer costs more doesn't automatically make it the right choice for a particular user's needs. I get that you think that given the price of Apple notebooks, you think they should be more capable. The fact is, they are capable enough for most users that Apple successfully sells millions of them. If your needs demand more, you should look for a product that meets those needs, even if it turns out to cost less.

If I occasionally encode video or play a game on my MBP, I expect temps to rise and the system to work harder. If I only do this occasionally, I can live with that. If encoding video or playing intensive games was a primary intended purpose for my computer, I would have bought a computer more well-suited to performing those tasks with ease.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

A prudent user should determine their intended use for a computer, then research and buy a computer that meets those needs.

No one googles thermal throttling [insert laptop model number here] before buying a laptop. They just don't.

A reasonable expectation for a consumer is for them to choose the laptop they need. If you need a video encoding machine, don't buy a Macbook Air and complain about price/performance ratio. If you need an ultraportable machine, don't buy an Alienware M17x r4 then complain about the weight. Here, I agree with you. Consumers should do some legwork to choose the right laptop for their needs. If someone complains about the weight of their alienware or the 3dmark score on their air, they're probably an idiot.

An unreasonable expectation for a consumer is to expect them to be able to figure out whether a laptop throttles the CPU speed due to poor thermal design when it hits 100% CPU utilization - especially on a laptop that is marketed to people who will do this to it!

. People do the basic research necessary to see if this laptop is for them, but you can't say "you should've known you needed a laptop that doesn't throttle at high CPU usage and figured out if it did that before you bought it." That's unreasonable.

I am speaking for the people who are buying a Macbook Pro for the reasons people buy Apple computers - because they are generally renowned as superior machines for working on multimedia - whether it's editing video or rendering a recording session. These are CPU intensive tasks that WILL use 100% of the CPU a lot of the time. People who buy a computer that is marketed to their needs, that is expensive, that is touted as having a powerhouse processor do not expect to deal with the CPU throttling and a performance hit when they use the machine for these tasks.

Now you may say most people don't care.. and you're totally right. Most people don't have a stopwatch out when they render a session. Most people don't even know what throttling is. Or what a CPU is.

Just because people are happy with what they have doesn't mean we should stop looking for flaws and weeding them out. It's how we improve - whether it's technology, culture, government, medicine.

 

[GGJstudios]

No one googles thermal throttling [insert laptop model number here] before buying a laptop. They just don't.

I don't consider myself to be any smarter than the average bear, yet I researched Macs for about a year before I bought one. Pretty much any search about Macs will lead prospective buyers where those searches led me: to this forum. Even though I wasn't primarily focused on thermal issues, I did my homework and realized before buying that some had concerns about heat. I read the positive and negative things people were saying about the model I was considering, including concerns about heat while doing such things as gaming or video encoding or editing. I also read the pros and cons about OS X. In the end, I made an informed decision and have been happy with my initial purchase even 5 years later, and have bought other Apple products using the same method. I've never bought a perfect product, but I always buy with my eyes open, knowing what to expect, and I take responsibility for my purchase decisions.

For those demanding more from a computer, I would expect them to be more thorough than an average consumer in their pre-purchase research, and not rely so heavily on marketing claims.

 

[Doward]

Just because people are happy with what they have doesn't mean we should stop looking for flaws and weeding them out. It's how we improve - whether it's technology, culture, government, medicine.

Story of my life, my friend.

I'll update to OP once I get the C2D 17" heatsink (ordering it Friday) and do some more testing.

 

[DesertEagle]

Wow, I really wasn't expecting so many Apple apologists in this thread. Scum!

(...)

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to do another clean install of Mountain Lion, and then I'm going to defragment my SSD collection.

Not sure if you're serious or just trolling. In case of the former, I recommend you to refrain from name-calling.

Good luck with the defragmentation of your SSDs.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

I don't consider myself to be any smarter than the average bear, yet I researched Macs for about a year before I bought one. Pretty much any search about Macs will lead prospective buyers where those searches led me: to this forum. Even though I wasn't primarily focused on thermal issues, I did my homework and realized before buying that some had concerns about heat. I read the positive and negative things people were saying about the model I was considering, including concerns about heat while doing such things as gaming or video encoding or editing. I also read the pros and cons about OS X. In the end, I made an informed decision and have been happy with my initial purchase even 5 years later, and have bought other Apple products using the same method. I've never bought a perfect product, but I always buy with my eyes open, knowing what to expect, and I take responsibility for my purchase decisions.

For those demanding more from a computer, I would expect them to be more thorough than an average consumer in their pre-purchase research, and not rely so heavily on marketing claims.

I think this is giving Apple too much rope. A computer marketed to X people should be able to perform X tasks. If it can't, go back to the drawing board and make it better.

Why do you oppose the idea of improving the design of a machine you like? What is so bad about the idea of making something better? Why is it the consumer's job to research whether a product is flawed and not the manufacturer's prerogative to fix the flaw?

 

[GGJstudios]

Why do you oppose the idea of improving the design of a machine you like? What is so bad about the idea of making something better?

I'm not opposed to improvements at all, but you're not going to change Apple's design by posting in this forum. If you really want to effect change, post feedback directly to Apple. I'm also not opposed to individuals doing whatever they want to modify their own computers, as I stated earlier.

What I am opposed to is the notion that Apple, or any company, is to blame for a buyer not making an educated buying decision. I'm also opposed to someone trying to force their own perception on the public, claiming that what may be an issue for them is an issue for everyone.

Apple, like most companies, makes products that they think will appeal to the majority of potential buyers. By definition, they won't appeal to all and they won't be appropriate for all. Obviously, Apple is doing more right than wrong, as their continued success proves. Each buyer should take responsibility to become informed before they spend their money. If they don't, and they buy simply based on marketing claims, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Apple is a company. It's not perfect. Its products are not perfect. There's always room for improvement. But their products obviously are worth the price they charge for enough of the population to make Apple extremely successful. For those that find the price too high or the capabilities lacking for their needs, they should buy something else. It just gets old hearing so many users blaming Apple for their own mistakes.

 

[cirus]

So common sense would suggest that if you intend to run prime95 all day, the Acer would be a more appropriate choice. Price has nothing to do with it. Price doesn't equal capability, even if you think it should. There are countless examples of products that cost far more than more capable less expensive alternatives. If I want a car that has the capability of a Camaro or Corvette, I shouldn't buy a Mercedes and then complain that the Mercedes doesn't perform like the Camaro or Corvette, even though it may cost more.

A prudent user should determine their intended use for a computer, then research and buy a computer that meets those needs. Just because a computer costs more doesn't automatically make it the right choice for a particular user's needs. I get that you think that given the price of Apple notebooks, you think they should be more capable. The fact is, they are capable enough for most users that Apple successfully sells millions of them. If your needs demand more, you should look for a product that meets those needs, even if it turns out to cost less.

If I occasionally encode video or play a game on my MBP, I expect temps to rise and the system to work harder. If I only do this occasionally, I can live with that. If encoding video or playing intensive games was a primary intended purpose for my computer, I would have bought a computer more well-suited to performing those tasks with ease.

So basically the cpu upgrade is pretty pointless?

(Because if you have to upgrade the cpu you shouldn't have bought the computer?)

 

[GGJstudios]

So basically the cpu upgrade is pretty pointless?

(Because if you have to upgrade the cpu you shouldn't have bought the computer?)

What CPU upgrade? MBP CPUs are not user-upgradable.

 

[alphaod]

I used to lap my heatsinks and the CPU.

What I've learned? It's a waste of time.

 

[Doward]

I used to lap my heatsinks and the CPU.

What I've learned? It's a waste of time.

Can you describe the procedure you used?

Unless you've already got a mirror finish on the base, or you improperly performed the lapping, you will increase transfer of heat between the die and heatsink.

 

[alphaod]

Can you describe the procedure you used?

Unless you've already got a mirror finish on the base, or you improperly performed the lapping, you will increase transfer of heat between the die and heatsink.

Yes with a lot patience and sandpaper. At one point I even ground some IHS on my processors.

I've also tried different polishes, some worked better than others.

Sure I got results but I felt I could have spent my time doing better things.

 

[whiteonline]

I am confused here. So the Macbook Pro should not be used for any intensive work?

Why do I need a 2.7Ghz i7 with 16GB of ram just to surf the web? Shouldn't the MBP be able to handle video rendering, Photoshop and stuff like that?

When I had a 2009 MBP, I used to use After Effects on it. It would sometimes get above 100 degrees celsius. It never gave me any issues.

Also, I have had Dell's burn my lap too. They all run hot.

No one said that you cannot do intensive work with a notebook. As you noted, it just will run hot. No big deal.

Select the right tool for the job. If you are going to do 90% video rendering at home, a desktop is better. If you need the same power in the field, the heat generated by a high-power mobile platform is something that needs to be accepted.

This thread basically comes down to people demanding the unreasonable just because they paid a lot of money.

 

[Doward]

This thread basically comes down to people demanding the unreasonable just because they paid a lot of money.

What is unreasonable about wanting a modicum of quality for one of the central points of the laptop's performance?

 

[whiteonline]

What is unreasonable about wanting a modicum of quality for one of the central points of the laptop's performance?

Quality is something Apple delivers with the Macbook. Build, appearance, service, components.
Nothing, at any price, will be the master of all tasks.

Now I'm pretty certain you are trolling here. Have fun with it....

 

[53kyle]

If you are doing tasks that generate so much heat all of the time you should use a desktop for those tasks