Yes, your MacBook Pro is running too hot, and yes, it is Apple's fault.

[Jinzen]

Some humans sweat so much that it affects their ability to do things, and in a sense that's what people are stating here.

from my experience I've not seen any major heat problems with my rMBP

The only time heat would be an issue is if the computer was throttling and reducing its performance because of it.

Intel Processors are resilient and can probably run 5 years straight 24/7 at close to 100C.

GPUs are more prone to dying so that heat concern is more valid.

 

[Doward]

You have demonstrated nothing more than opinion, little factual. For someone who is "immersed in electronics", you show few skills; workspace is chaotic, there is absolutely no ESD precautions evident, no specified torque value for the heat sync assy; retention force has impact and factors.

Bottom line is you have reduced temperature on your 17" 2011 MBP and this is a great result for you, equally it is not not all encompassing for the entire MBP community, no need for grandstanding...

Nonsense, you're letting your emotion get in the way of hard data.

1) Demonstrated a 17C drop in temperature under full load on my own personal 17" MBP. Fact, not opinion.

2) Anandtech demonstrated a 20% slowdown under heavy load for a 2011 Macbook Pro. Fact, not opinion.

3) You can clearly see the heatsink copper base is rough cut. Fact, not opinion.

4) You can clearly see there is entirely more heatsink compound than necessary. Fact, not opinion.

There is no grandstanding - the title of the thread is to answer the question in users mind when they ask "Is my MBP running too hot?"

Once you've had to resort to an attack on my person, I'm forced to believe you have nothing constructive to add to this discussion. You have no idea what steps I took prior to hitting record.

"If a cluttered desk signs a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?" - Albert Einstein

Good day, sir.

 

[maflynn]

The only time heat would be an issue is if the computer was throttling and reducing its performance because of it.

Intel Processors are resilient and can probably run 5 years straight 24/7 at close to 100C.

GPUs are more prone to dying so that heat concern is more valid.

I'm not saying it is a problem, but rather people are stating its a problem. From my experience all of my apple laptops never ran so hot it caused a problem

 

[l.a.rossmann]

That's obviously only your opinion, as notebooks are configured for a variety of intended uses. They are not all alike and not all configured to handle every possible task. That's why a MBP may be considered overkill for some users' needs, while it may be completely inadequate for others. It's up to each user to determine what their own usage requirements are, then shop intelligently for the computer that meets those needs. Buying the wrong computer for your needs and then blaming the manufacturer displays a lack of experience and unwillingness to accept responsibility for one's own inappropriate buying decisions.

You're criss crossing things here.

Saying "this computer is not meant for gaming" makes sense. Buying a netbook to play BF3 would be silly, and bad purchasing.

Saying "this computer is not meant to be portable" makes sense. The laptop was not designed to be portable. Buying an Alienware M17x for frequent travel would be silly, and bad purchasing.

Saying "this computer is not meant to be 100% utilized" is asinine. That's bad design.

You're making it sound like people are trying to use their Honda as a racecar, then complain when it doesn't run well at 120 mph. A more fitting analogy, people are simply trying to drive 55 mph on the highway, which is something you can reasonably expect from a Honda.

 

[Doward]

I'm not saying it is a problem, but rather people are stating its a problem. From my experience all of my apple laptops never ran so hot it caused a problem

If you check Anand's Review of the rMBP you'll clearly see that the 2011 MBP will, and indeed DOES throttle itself down.

This is a clear performance loss, and to me is unacceptable.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

Once you've had to resort to an attack on my person, I'm forced to believe you have nothing constructive to add to this discussion. You have no idea what steps I took prior to hitting record.

"If a cluttered desk signs a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?" - Albert Einstein

Good day, sir.

When people start insulting your character, it's usually because you have some good findings.

 

[redkamel]

That's obviously only your opinion, as notebooks are configured for a variety of intended uses. They are not all alike and not all configured to handle every possible task. That's why a MBP may be considered overkill for some users' needs, while it may be completely inadequate for others. It's up to each user to determine what their own usage requirements are, then shop intelligently for the computer that meets those needs. Buying the wrong computer for your needs and then blaming the manufacturer displays a lack of experience and unwillingness to accept responsibility for one's own inappropriate buying decisions.

Would you please just give it a rest? I have read several educational posts about heat sink manufacturing, thermal past, and simple ways to improve heatsinks, which is interesting and relevant, even if the heat issue is not a "problem". In my experience my macs always get hot and if that can be prevented, great.

In the middle of this discussion I have to read multiple posts about how this is normal, not a problem, macbook pros (PRO being the keyword here) are not designed to run under heavy loads repeatedly or for long periods of time,or how its not appropriate to encode a lot of video on a MBP. All of them make no sense, lack data, are wrong, or are annoying in their lack of addition to the discussion in various combinations. You did not even read the OP as it was "too long".

We all know that if we need to run processor intensive stuff for days to get a desktop (or a MacPro, since an imac is essentially a big laptop). However many people (yourself likely included) do use MBPs for intensive work multiple times a day and if improving the heatsink allows better cooling (thus a cooler laptop that runs better or can have better parts), then so much the better. The OP is completely logical and is discussing improved heat sink contact, not liquid cooling or anything unlikely in a laptop

I also find it especially annoying how you also say most MBPs are used for light work and web browsing, which not mean that MBPs should not be designed for professional, hard work. And alluding to your quote above, buying a Mac Book Pro for heavy use, even video encoding, is not inappropriate. A MBP should have the best cooling.

In short, if this post was "TL;DR": I have been enjoying this thread apart from your repeated off topic interjections about how the heatsinks work great, when as far as I can tell, you have never seen a heatsink in a Mac. While your computer runs fine for you, it clearly does not for the many who do not enjoy their macs becoming hot to the touch and I would like to read more about it. Please give it a rest. Thanks.

 

[Queen6]

Nonsense, you're letting your emotion get in the way of hard data.

1) Demonstrated a 17C drop in temperature under full load on my own personal 17" MBP. Fact, not opinion.

2) Anandtech demonstrated a 20% slowdown under heavy load for a 2011 Macbook Pro. Fact, not opinion.

3) You can clearly see the heatsink copper base is rough cut. Fact, not opinion.

4) You can clearly see there is entirely more heatsink compound than necessary. Fact, not opinion.

There is no grandstanding - the title of the thread is to answer the question in users mind when they ask "Is my MBP running too hot?"

Once you've had to resort to an attack on my person, I'm forced to believe you have nothing constructive to add to this discussion. You have no idea what steps I took prior to hitting record.

"If a cluttered desk signs a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?" - Albert Einstein

Good day, sir.

I am not attacking anyone, rather technique, your assumptions are far wide and ranging based on a sample of how many units? nor are you really understanding; not all Mac portable run overly hot, as they are not all equal. You have stated a 17C drop in operating temperature, yet only have post "mod" data. You have posted across multiple threads implying this is the cure for temperature related issues regardless of the root cause. If your taking it personal, well that`s on you.

As for emotion, I own Mac`s for OS X nothing more, nothing less, tools to do a job. You are very much generalising that all have issue, likely the majority does not. Let`s try again I am not suggesting what you have done and observed is negative or irrelevant, however it does not indicate that all Mac portables have issue, elevated temperatures can be due to multiple reasons.

You can "cherry pick"if you wish Anandtech also state "The MacBook Pro with Retina Display, on the other hand, remains relatively stable across all runs. While its performance definitely dips, the impact is around 5% off of peak." we all can, not all MBP run overly hot, however I do agree the 2011 Quad Core machines can be susceptible to high temps...

 

[fatlardo]

I am not attacking anyone, rather technique, your assumptions are far wide and ranging based on a sample of how many units? nor are you really understanding; not all Mac portable run overly hot, as they are not all equal. You have stated a 17C drop in operating temperature, yet only have post "mod" data. You have posted across multiple threads implying this is the cure for temperature related issues regardless of the root cause. If your taking it personal, well that on you.

As for emotion, I own Mac`s for OS X nothing more, nothing less, tools to do a job. You are very much generalising that all have issue, likely the majority does not. Let`s try again I am not suggesting what you have done and observed is negative or irrelevant, however it does not indicate that all Mac portables have issue, elevated temperatures can be due to multiple reasons, which you appear to discount, only favouring your own personal vew.

If it helps to add to the data, I have the 2013 pro 2.7 512gb and it gets up to 103 while playing D3.

 

[luffytubby]

If it helps to add to the data, I have the 2013 pro 2.7 512gb and it gets up to 103 while playing D3.

stop!! your decreasing your computers lifespan by doing that!


95 degrees IMO is the absolute maximum. pushing it over that is just crazy.



Have you considered disabling turboboost? some people get much lower temps with that disabled!

 

[maratus]

OP,

Thank you for a nice thread, but who will understand the problem deep enough? You'll be told that if Apple designed it that way you shouldn't change anything because Apple engineers know it better; sometimes you'll hear repeating nonsense about notebook shutting down when CPU reaches TJMax as well as that CPU can continuously operate at 105C without problems. In fact, it seems to be normal to say that keyboard and side ports in unibody work as air intake (I think there was even an article saying that).

If you want, I can share my experience with applying liquid metal compound as a very efficient way to solve contact/surface finish quality issues. After certain modifications, I can say that rMBP cooling system is quite impressive for its size and thickness

 

[TonyHoyle]

I find the 2012 MBP much better than the 2010. You could fry an egg on that idle. My 2008 regularly burnt my legs - eventually got the habit of lying it on a blanket to avoid that.

This 2012 is idling at 55C which is about 10 degrees hotter than my desktop but not anything I'm currently worried about. It's just about warm to the touch at the moment, which is a massive improvement on previous macbooks.

 

[Queen6]

If it helps to add to the data, I have the 2013 pro 2.7 512gb and it gets up to 103 while playing D3.

I play The Witcher 2 from time to time, 85C on ultra setting, best for Retina (2.3 Base 15" Retina).

 

[GGJstudios]

Saying "this computer is not meant to be 100% utilized" is asinine. That's bad design.

I'm not saying that. The question to ask is "this computer is meant to be 100% utilized for what purpose?" No computer is designed to run at maximum capacity for all, or even most of the time. If your workload demands 100% utilization from a MBP most of the time, you should have bought a computer that can handle that workload at something less, such as 75% of capacity.

Would you please just give it a rest? I have read several educational posts about heat sink manufacturing, thermal past, and simple ways to improve heatsinks, which is interesting and relevant, even if the heat issue is not a "problem". In my experience my macs always get hot and if that can be prevented, great.

You're missing the point of my posts. I'm not suggesting that one should never reapply thermal paste or take other measures to reduce temps if they so choose. The falsehood that I'm challenging is the suggestion that ALL MacBook Pros are overheating or running too hot and ALL users have a problem with heat. That is patently false.

In short, if this post was "TL;DR": I have been enjoying this thread apart from your repeated off topic interjections about how the heatsinks work great, when as far as I can tell, you have never seen a heatsink in a Mac.

My comments are completely on-topic, even if you happen to disagree with them. I have never stated "how the heatsinks work great", and you have no idea what I've seen or haven't seen.

While your computer runs fine for you, it clearly does not for the many who do not enjoy their macs becoming hot to the touch and I would like to read more about it. Please give it a rest.

While your computer may run too hot for you, it clearly does not for the majority of Mac users. You can read all you want about it. I'm not preventing anyone from reading or posting. If you don't like my posts, don't read them. I have just as much a right to post as anyone in this thread, so no, I will not "give it a rest", especially as long as misinformation is being posted that could mislead others, especially new Mac users.

If the title of this thread was something like "MPB Heatsink design and suggested improvements" I probably wouldn't have posted at all in this thread. The fact that the thread title alone is false, along with the false premise that there is a heat problem for all Mac users, is what prompted me to respond.

 

[Eidorian]

The exhaust is the dangerous stuff. In the summer it is burn territory if you have it anywhere near your legs.

I am not fond of hitting 88° C but it is within specifications. It feels like 2006 again.

 

[Doward]

I'm going to start with my 2007 17" MBP, record the data from it (as I already have it), and then work toward modifying a Retina to determine what kind of drops we see.

Ideally, Apple will have already beaten me to the punch with the redesigned setup.

 

[Weaselboy]

I think a number of people are just glossing over the thread, and simply chalking up "omg someone else complaining about heat ugh they are Apple duh" type mentality to it. Shame, honestly.

I think it's clear the Macbook Pro can easily run cooler, with very little needed to make this better even at the factory level.

Good thread Doward and some interesting points. Perhaps Apple could do a better job managing heat for a very slight increase in system cost.

It is a too bad some forum members take it personal and act like you are calling their children ugly if you presume to question anything Apple does. Then they resort to insults and name calling. Shameful really. You can always count on the usual Apple apologists to pop up in any thread like this.

 

[redkamel]

TLDR. The vast majority of Apple notebooks run just fine, with temps that are well within normal safe operating range. There are a few who obsess about these temps, but it's not something most users should worry about. A Mac will shut down if it truly overheats, to prevent damage. If it's not shutting down due to temps, they're most likely normal, even if someone new to Macs isn't used to such temps.

Your entire first post basically says the heatsinks work well.

I have no idea if you have seen a heatsink because all you say, repeatedly, is "the cooling is sufficient". I have never seen my laptops heatsink nor even worked on a heatsink, but I have taken physics, so I can tell when one posters makes sense, and the other is just typing. And since I am not adding to the discussion, I shall stop now.

 

[xVeinx]

Good thread Doward and some interesting points. Perhaps Apple could do a better job managing heat for a very slight increase in system cost.

It is a too bad some forum members take it personal and act like you are calling their children ugly if you presume to question anything Apple does. Then they resort to insults and name calling. Shameful really. You can always count on the usual Apple apologists to pop up in any thread like this.

I don't think it's anything like that. The only counterpoints being made are that the temperatures are within acceptable limits (per Intel, etc.), and that the cost/sourcing of heatsinks lapped to a mirror finish is prohibitive. You'd have to find or outfit a factory to produce these heatsinks. The variability in lapping quality would limit the average improvement to 7-10 degrees at best. They aren't unreasonable points; you may disagree, but that doesn't turn those posters into Apple apologists--just pragmatists. Posting this information is helpful, and may encourage a few users to lap the heatsinks in their macbook pro. Expecting Apple to drop 50-100 million dollars to drop the temperatures of the processor by a few degrees however is a little silly.

 

[CitrusPisser]

Both sides have valid points, however i do believe that apple have taken significant steps in reducing the heat and improving the dissipation of heat in their machines since 2007 (The earliest MBP that i have experience with). As i mentioned earlier, people whose machines run at regular temps typically stay quiet on these issues, they're too busy utilising and enjoying their laptops. Maybe they don't even realise it's even an issue for some?

Unfortunately, i believe that being able to reduce a 2011 model's temp by 17c, while quite impressive, is more a reflection of how much worse things were then, rather than a reflection of where a lot of machines are now. I'd be interested more in a percentage decrease in heat achieved in the 2011 model, could you provide that? Because percentage wise, 17c would be a much bigger deal on my machine which is maxing at around 65c typically rather than a 90-100c machine.

 

[johnnnw]

This thread has some good content.

I think on both sides people got a little too emotional and heated.

 

[Doward]

Both sides have valid points, however i do believe that apple have taken significant steps in reducing the heat and improving the dissipation of heat in their machines since 2007 (The earliest MBP that i have experience with). As i mentioned earlier, people whose machines run at regular temps typically stay quiet on these issues, they're too busy utilising and enjoying their laptops. Maybe they don't even realise it's even an issue for some?

Unfortunately, i believe that being able to reduce a 2011 model's temp by 17c, while quite impressive, is more a reflection of how much worse things were then, rather than a reflection of where a lot of machines are now. I'd be interested more in a percentage decrease in heat achieved in the 2011 model, could you provide that? Because percentage wise, 17c would be a much bigger deal on my machine which is maxing at around 65c typically rather than a 90-100c machine.

The highest stable temp I recorded prior to completing the work was 102C (playing Farmville, GPU+CPU+Flash) - After it was 87C. Best of all, it was 87C with very low fan speeds.

Encoding, however, does push it up to 5500rpm, but temps stabilize to ~85C.

 

[GGJstudios]

Your entire first post basically says the heatsinks work well.

You're reading into my post, as it doesn't even mention heatsinks. I chose the words in my post to say exactly what I said, nothing more, nothing less. My post is entirely accurate.

I have no idea if you have seen a heatsink because all you say, repeatedly, is "the cooling is sufficient".

No, what I'm saying is that it is absolutely false to claim there is a heat problem for most or all MBPs, as the OP has done.

 

[Dark09]

O_O, very interesting thread, and enjoyed the read. Doward, you put a lot of thought into your posts, and I agree with the high temps with regard to some mbpr's (specifically mine). I've gotten into the habit of forcing the fan to run high (with istat) before starting anything processor intensive. Hopefully in the near future with patches and what not, I will not have to be so pro-active.

*Not to say I don't agree with GGJstudios and his position in this debate.

 

[RoastingPig]

i dont think ive turned off my mbp 09 in like 3 years it just keeps runnin like it did in 09