Zune HD Hands on Demo and Impressions

[NT1440]

For once we're not getting a wall of multi-quoted text.

But mosx is being very tame with experiences that I have sadly had to share under OS X. Word for word.

We've acknowledged that all OS's have their faults (or I have at least). I have no doubt in my mind that OSX does have its flaws, and on that same page Windows has its flaws too. Technology basically moves in patterns: New release, bugs ---> stabilize that product----> move on to new release

The day that an OS is 100% problem free is the day that we know its developer has stopped trying to innovate.

@ Treq, I've already responded to that twisting of the truth and will not harp on it any longer

 

[MacAndy74]

Where are all these windows fan-boys coming from?

They're doing a spamming run from Neowin. They will then return home to their forum feeling like they've done well.

 

[Anuba]

Oh come on man, you were doing so well!

Apple is secretive, we have no clue what they are up to. We keep hearing how they get complacent every year and then they knock our socks off again and again.

Is it possible to give both companies the same chance and say "lets see what comes out of this" instead of only extending that branch to one or the other?

You must have read more Apple skepticism into it than what was actually there... I give both companies the benefit of the doubt. Having said that, do you honestly feel that they're knocking your socks off non-stop these days?

The iMac designs knocked my socks off (from G4 lampshade and on).
The Titanium PowerBook knocked my socks off.
The original Mac Mini knocked my socks off.
The original iPod Nano knocked my socks off.
The original iPhone knocked my socks off.
The unibody design knocked one sock off.
The MBA, well... it was sock-knocking to see a laptop that thin, but since they accomplished it by removing just about everything a laptop normally features it still left me with a "duhh" feeling.
The new Shuffle just made me laugh because I couldn't believe the iPod Flea spoof commercial became reality.
The rumored tablet netbook *may* knock my socks off.

But if Apple were ever showing signs of complacency setting in, I'd say it's been in the last couple of years. The iPod thing is getting old, and you can only switch between vertical and horizontal screen on the Nano so many times. The Mac Pro and the Mini are both enclosed in cases that are ancient by Apple standards (the Mac Pro exterior is now 6 years old and I don't think Apple ever stayed with a design for that long). The Mighty Mouse is so old (and so awful) that I don't know whether to put it in a museum or a dumpster. MobileMe, a subscription service that offers less that free alternatives, is just depressing. The iPhone, well, once the revolutionary UI had been introduced they've just been playing catch-up by gradually adding features that have been a staple of other phone brands for aeons... 3G, GPS and now, apparently, video recording, MMS and a front-facing cam and a radio. All stuff I had on my SonyEricsson 3G smartphone in 2007. Yay. As for the infernal "thinness" argument, I'm not sure there's much more they can do in that department... they made stuff as thin as it could possibly get, and then they tapered the edges to fake more thinness that really wasn't there... where could they possibly go from there? Special pairs of glasses that will give the optical illusion of additional thinness?

So yeah, IMO they're no longer the Apple whose keynote addresses I tuned in to between circa 2000 and 2007 and was blown away by things that we buzzed excitedly about for months. Accurate spoilers have preceded nearly every keynote for quite some time now, and reactions have gone from "OMGWTFWOHOOOO!!!!" to "that's cool, I might get one of those". I hope they'll break that trend and bring back their old wow factor, but I'm afraid it will probably take a new product category to do it.

 

[Treq]

They're doing a spamming run from Neowin. They will then return home to their forum feeling like they've done well.

 

[jouster]

iPod literally means: I (me) Portable On Demand

[citation required]

 

[Prof.]

The source I read it from the first time was wrong. Here is the proper definition.

The term iPod (according to Apple) simply stands for Internet POD. The POD in the name stands for "Portable Open Database" which is basically the software used to power the iPod.

Citation

 

[dan-o-mac]

Get over yourself and don't read his posts then, or go to some zune site, ok forget that, no one cares enough to post in a zune forum, go to some ms fanboy site and praise the graces of the zune. But you can't have it both ways, both be here, and expect people to praise the zune and be uncritical of MS. Like I said get over yourselves, and it's democracy, just cause someone has an opinion that's different than yours you can't tell them "get a life" and call them noobs, let alone when that opinion is one in favour of apple in an apple forum....

You need to relax and learn how to read. I said he was annoying, and so are you.

Gotta love it when someone with an 09 join date tells me to post on a MS forum. I've been here since 04 brainiac, I'm not going anywhere.

 

[RZetlin]

It's easily to dismiss the Zune as a "poorman's" iPhone, but history has shown Microsoft has a habit of winning through attrition.

 

[dsnort]

It's easily to dismiss the Zune as a "poorman's" iPhone, but history has shown Microsoft has a habit of winning through attrition.

"Embrace, Extend, Extinguish!"

Funny how innovate isn't part of the mantra!

 

[Treq]

You need to relax and learn how to read. I said he was annoying, and so are you.

Gotta love it when someone with an 09 join date tells me to post on a MS forum. I've been here since 04 brainiac, I'm not going anywhere.

Wow, the arrogance... So you don't get to annoy people unles you have been here since 04'? Sorry, I didn't see that in the rules...

 

[cycomiko]

The pc software for zune shows just how little M$ understands the relationship between style and substance.

obviously as much as apple does for itunes on the PC, what a dog

 

[dan-o-mac]

Wow, the arrogance... So you don't get to annoy people unles you have been here since 04'? Sorry, I didn't see that in the rules...

It should be quite evident you don't need to be here since 04' to annoy someone. You've managed to do fine in your last 50+ post.

 

[Treq]

It should be quite evident you don't need to be here since 04' to annoy someone. You've managed to do fine in your last 50+ post.

I'm sure I have. Here's to 50 more...

 

[pwn247]

I think the real tagline to this article should read:

"Microsoft Zune HD: In 2009, it does nothing more than your iPhone did in 2007." What a freaking fail on MS' part! Wow!

And the guy "presenting" this is a doofus "...look at that HD!" I see a small, low-resolution screen, displaying a gimmicky user interface that's not only unattractive, but also something that would be a pain to use.

If 12-frame GIF animations of text zooming up to the top of the screen is both "HD" and "new technology", then count me out on the Zune HD.

 

[villageindian]

I have an iRiver with an OLED screen that is substantially older then six months and shows no screen degradation whatsoever. OLED is easily ready for pocketable devices.

Sorry, you have no clue what you are talking about. the iRiver doesnt use an active matrix OLED display (AMOLED) which is what all the TVs and new devices are based on. It uses a passive matrix display (PMOLED).

PMOLED have been in the market since 2005. They are ideal for 1-3" displays. They are so cheap to make that they dont serve any purpose anymore.

AMOLED are much better than PMOLEDs due to this reason: Because the whole pixels are spread across rows and columns, the AMOLED activates only the necessary pixels to display the image. This is why the rest of the background displays in the color it should be. Thus, black appears as pure black. Not as some weird color.

Most displays you'll find in MP3 players and sub-displays on cellphones are PMOLEDs, while the larger panels on PDAs, cameras, main cellphone displays and TVs are AMOLEDs.

I know this because I am an analyst who wrote a report on OLEDs recently and have talked to the industry guys. As I said, I am looking at the data but I dont see demand for AMOLEDs in other areas than mobile phones simply because of cost. Infact, I gave you the cost estimates for AMOLEDs in my earlier post.

Also, note that Sony is taking a substantial hit on their bottomline when they sell those TVs. They are bloody expensive to make but it is cool because it is the latest technology. I am sure Apple can get OLED screens from vendors at a cheap cost but it wont be on displays yet until they can get the cost down a bit. I am not sure that the players would be willing to get Apple's contract simply and have large writedowns on their P/L. It has to be a situation where they get reimbursed adequately for this new technology.

Ahhh! This could explain why the home screen uses white on a black background. Since white is the only "color" that has a decent life span.

I am also wondering what is meant by "lifespan" in the above quote. Does it mean the brightness degrades to some percentage of the original brightness? If so, then, while the Blue is still within it's "lifespan," the overall colors of the photos and videos have begun to noticeably shift...like an old color photograph from the 1960s.

OLED is organic polymers deposited on a substrate containing a thin-film transistor (TFT) array. Supply an electrical charge between the bottom electrodes and this stimulates the emissive organic layer, which in turn creates light. Remember that you need red, green and blue to form the variety of different colors. they are the base colors. The problem is that the blue pixels in an OLED display tend to lose brightness at a faster rate than red and green ones. True blue is not available, crystallization of organic materials and exposure to light, humidity, oxygen will kill the OLED. Thats why the hours lifetime are different. Thus, you cannot get cheaper OLEDs until this is solved.

What will happen ultimately is that non-emissive regions (dark spots) begin to appear. These spots will affect the lower organic layers and the substrate on which the organic layers are deposited. That means it is time to replace it.

 

[dan-o-mac]

I'm sure I have. Here's to 50 more...

touché.

 

[Treq]

Sorry, you have no clue what you are talking about. the iRiver doesnt use an active matrix OLED display (AMOLED) which is what all the TVs and new devices are based on. It uses a passive matrix display (PMOLED).

PMOLED have been in the market since 2005. They are ideal for 1-3" displays. They are so cheap to make that they dont serve any purpose anymore.

AMOLED are much better than PMOLEDs due to this reason: Because the whole pixels are spread across rows and columns, the AMOLED activates only the necessary pixels to display the image. This is why the rest of the background displays in the color it should be. Thus, black appears as pure black. Not as some weird color.

Most displays you'll find in MP3 players and sub-displays on cellphones are PMOLEDs, while the larger panels on PDAs, cameras, main cellphone displays and TVs are AMOLEDs.

I know this because I am an analyst who wrote a report on OLEDs recently and have talked to the industry guys. As I said, I am looking at the data but I dont see demand for AMOLEDs in other areas than mobile phones simply because of cost. Infact, I gave you the cost estimates for AMOLEDs in my earlier post.



OLED is organic polymers deposited on a substrate containing a thin-film transistor (TFT) array. Supply an electrical charge between the bottom electrodes and this stimulates the emissive organic layer, which in turn creates light. Remember that you need red, green and blue to form the variety of different colors. they are the base colors. The problem is that the blue pixels in an OLED display tend to lose brightness at a faster rate than red and green ones. Thats why the hours lifetime are different. Thus, you cannot get cheaper OLEDs until this is solved.

Best Post Ever.

 

[skydivingcoach]

Apple and Cashflow

TO APPLE: please listen to what your customers (AKA cash flow) want. How flippin hard is it to put a radio tuner (or HD radio in microsofts case) in an iPod?! I never, ever thought I'd say this, but... Kudo's to microsoft

Not being rude here, but I don't believe Apple has recently had a problem with cash flow. As for listening to it's customers, Apple stays well ahead of what it's customers can even imagine. Radio?? Really?? Try Pandora and you'll never use radio again.

 

[Journojulz]

obviously as much as apple does for itunes on the PC, what a dog

?

Itunes works for me on the PC fine - and its much easier to navigate your collection than the zune software - and that was created by the same maker as the OS.

 

[Colrath]

Funnily enough, there isn't even a blue screen of death in Vista right? I heard they changed it (never gotten one, freezes yes, blue screen no).

There is one, I got it last week.

 

[Colrath]

Radio?? Really?? Try Pandora and you'll never use radio again.

I honestly can't see a reason to stick an extra antenna in the form factor for something I'd never use.

The only place I really listen to music on my iPhone, is in the car..... Where I have satellite radio.

 

[peterdevries]

If it was available in store today, I would say it is a healthy competitor to the iPod Touch. There are some hardware features that are "obviously" better (OLED, HD capacity, HDMI out).

However, if this is supposed to be a prototype (ie an insight into the future), it's incredibly underwhelming.

Yeah, because between now and the fall we will see incredible technological achievements like 1080p playback on postage stamp sized screens, 2TB flash storage and monkeys that actually fly out of people's b***s..

I'm a fanboy too, but it's time people take of their apple shaped glasses and just value the Zune HD from an (at least somewhat) objective viewpoint.

 

[Colrath]

OLED is organic polymers deposited on a substrate containing a thin-film transistor (TFT) array. Supply an electrical charge between the bottom electrodes and this stimulates the emissive organic layer, which in turn creates light. Remember that you need red, green and blue to form the variety of different colors. they are the base colors. The problem is that the blue pixels in an OLED display tend to lose brightness at a faster rate than red and green ones. True blue is not available, crystallization of organic materials and exposure to light, humidity, oxygen will kill the OLED. Thats why the hours lifetime are different. Thus, you cannot get cheaper OLEDs until this is solved.

What will happen ultimately is that non-emissive regions (dark spots) begin to appear. These spots will affect the lower organic layers and the substrate on which the organic layers are deposited. That means it is time to replace it.

Just worth it being here again, but anyways.

This reason is why I wouldn't want an OLED screen, and why I feel confident apple wont go this direction.

I don't plan to discard my 2nd Gen 32gig iPhone after the 3rd gen comes out (although I will be buying it). Phone wise, I don't find it entirely unreasonable to update your phone every 1-2 years if I expect to stick to the smartphone market.

But for a music player, I want it to live in rough conditions (in my car a lot) and survive for a long time. Wouldn't want some prissy product that wont last for less than two years.

 

[DMann]

This reason is why I wouldn't want an OLED screen, and why I feel confident apple wont go this direction.

Not to mention, having no backlight sucks badly in sunlight:

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I honestly can't see a reason to stick an extra antenna in the form factor for something I'd never use.

The only place I really listen to music on my iPhone, is in the car..... Where I have satellite radio.

they would not need to add an extra antenna in the iPod Touch. It already has almost if not all the needed hardware to have an FM tuner in it. It mostly lacks the software side of things.

I will say it nice of Microsoft to add one and apple should of added a freaken simple FM turner to the iPod 5+ years again and now they really are lagging behind. That was my biggest complaint about the iPod is no FM tuner. It is some times just nice to listen to the radio instead of my own personal library.