Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Played just fine on my iPhone Edge. :) can't wait to see finished versions.

I'd like to see real-world comparisons of the same app running HTML5 and Flash. This way we can see the differences in performance and battery life, if applicable.
 
Regular Browser scrolling is back

No more forgetting you're in an object for flash and when you try to middle wheel scroll you go no where.

With HTML5 I can scroll right over all the content.

Love that.
 
Maybe Apple should've just made a redirect to a real site showcasing HTML5 in an OPEN way (not requiring Safari) :

http://www.canvasdemos.com/

Apple didn't invent anything with this page, except browser sniffing for an open standard...

Yah, because there was a real Flash plugin for any mobile device when either the iphone or iPad were released anyways. :rolleyes:

Flash Lite has been around since 2003, before Adobe even bought Macromedia. It's a "real Flash plugin". If you mean Full Flash, you might have a point.
 
A.) It's just an early-stage technology demonstration, and

B.) The main point is that they are showing technologies that scale on devices ranging from mobile units to desktop computers.

I got news for you, im using the net NOW, not in a far far away future...
 
These demos are very nice!
The gallery is much smoother and faster than any flash gallery i've ever used.

I really hope people start using it for their websites!

And the best thing is my fans didn't need to speed up at all to do the demos :D


Something I would really like to see is the Disney website without flash. The thing is packed with flash! Steve, can't you ask your buddies at Disney to turn it to html5? :)
 
Telling me install Safari or use an iPhone isn't exactly my view of an open standard.

Using your iPhone wouldn't have done much good. I tried the sites with mine and although they loaded and looked pretty, I couldn't get them to function on my 3G. No multi-touch optimization?
 
Flash is not for mobile

Flash worshippers can say all they want:
- We could already play games for many years;
- We could do these things across all platforms;
- A browser without Flash is crippled;
- html5 can't do what Flash does;
- SJ should at least give us the option;

1.) Let me just first state that this demo proves that SJ is not blocking Flash because of the App Store. In contrary, he is hoping that these games and applications are going to and can be developed by others. So you can't use that point anymore, and you haven't on this thread, so we mutually agree.

2.) You may have been able to play games for many years on Flash. But that was because, processor power was not an issue, battery life neither or less, no multi-touch was used as a way to operate the web and bandwidth wasn't a problem either.

But now we have mobile devices where the above mentioned points are an issue and therefore call for a more efficient platform. Adobe could have changed their platform to overcome those issues but they couldn't/didn't.

3.) As others already noted, Flash is not cross platform as it doesn't run on Symbian, WM, WebOS, RIM and iPhone OS. There are some lite versions that are in the market but they don't do full Flash. Maybe Flash worshippers have been living in a carton box all the time. But we have some more platforms besides our usual desk-/laptop platforms, and flash does not run (well) on those platforms. Html5 will be supported by all (most) platforms even MS has said that IE9 will support html5. That is Firefox, Chrome, Safari, IE, Opera etc

4.) "A browser without Flash is crippled". In other words, you are saying that people that want to enjoy a certain website that requires Flash can't visit that website. Their basic browser is not sufficient and that they should go to adobe's website, download some software and install the downloaded software. Software that causes many of the browser crashes experienced. Software that allows for hackers to compromise security and that doesn't run (well) on mobile platforms. I would conclude that, Flash cripples a browser, Flash programmers haven't pushed (complained to) Adobe enough to improve their platform, other companies didn't develop alternatives (until recently) and that Adobe hasn't been on top of the latest developments.

5.) Html5 can't do what Flash does. Here we do agree. But I would like to change the first sentence just ever so slightly. Html5 can't do what Flash does YET. Before we heard that it could only do video. Now Apple shows some other examples of what you could do with html5. Of course it's not finished yet and it needs some polishing. But you can't ignore the fact that it's not only for video and that it has been improved a lot since html5 was first supported in Safari.

6.) Apple is not the one the company created Flash. SJ repeatedly asked Adobe to come with a good (stable, energy friendly and secure) version. But Adobe never did. So Apple can't give you an option that is not even there. Maybe you are tech savvy enough to understand that it isn't Apples fault that the browser crashes, the page scrolls slow and that the iPhone needs rebooting more often. But most users don't.

Sure, Flash will still be around for some time and maybe forever (whatever that means). But depending on what Adobe does, Flash will either stay a valid alternative to html5 or html5 will be developed to the point where Flash is no longer an attractive platform to build website components with. 

Just my $0.02 :)
 
Because HTML 5 isnt ready for primetime, illustrating perfectly why Jobs is an idiot for blocking Flash, a format that actually IS a viable plugin. Actually he's just egomaniacal, the idiots are the parrots that run around forums screaming FLASH IS BAD FLASH IS BAD.

Just because flash works doesn't mean it is good.

MS Windows is pretty much everywhere and it is mediocre software at best.

Someone had to take a stand and say, "enough with this garbage, it is time for a replacement". Right about now HTML5 is not there yet but for MOST, HTML5 covers a lot of what flash is being used for. Today.

I am sure the demos Apple put online today raised a few eyebrows; " wow, you could do that in HTML?".
 
No, it doesn't work on linux, because Apple implemented a silly browser sniffer that explicitly checks for Safari.
This is only a technical demo. nothing in the HTML spec prevents a linux browser to work.
These demos technically also work with other browsers (at least partially), but Apple doesn't let them in. And there is no Safari for linux.
Yes there is. http://www.google.com/search?q=webk...s=org.mozilla:sv-SE:official&client=firefox-a

Apple is the new Microsoft, they preach water and drink wine...
Care to provide proof?
 
If Flash were lesser than HTML 5-AJAX, that would be a good analogy, but that is not the case. To assume or state otherwise is being ignorant. ;)

Well a car can't eat grass nor pull a plow.. so there you go ;-)
 
Can't Wait

Can't wait until all major browsers support all of this! :)
However, I noticed that many of these effects are achieved within html5 by using several webkit boxes? Doesn't that mean that non-webKit browsers would need separate coding for this? So, iirc, IE would need a different code from Safari again? Would be nice to have it all running on all browsers with one code..

Oh, and one downside to this html5 movement.. No more flash ads! T-T That means no more installing click-to-flash and.. poof! Gone ads. :(
 
Can't wait until all major browsers support all of this! :)
However, I noticed that many of these effects are achieved within html5 by using several webkit boxes? Doesn't that mean that non-webKit browsers would need separate coding for this? So, iirc, IE would need a different code from Safari again? Would be nice to have it all running on all browsers with one code..

Oh, and one downside to this html5 movement.. No more flash ads! T-T That means no more installing click-to-flash and.. poof! Gone ads. :(

How about "Click-to-Ad" I would really like that!
Ads on the TV, Ads in all papers and magazines, ads on every website, ads on the radio, ads in the street, ads everywhere... I don't like ads!
 
All great and well but now try to use these pages with your 3G iPhone. That is why Jobs want HTML5. Not for desktop browsing but mobile browsing. Well I know one thing for sure. Looking at these examples using my iPhone 3G SUCKS big time. It's slow, unresponsive, keeps loading all the time and scrolling gets real sloppy. Isn't that why Apple banned Flash on these devices? It's even worse then Flash on the Android Froyo OS. That was a bit sloppy but this was way worse. My browser crashed three times before I gave up. Hope this is because of Mobile Safari not completely ready for HTML5 and they can still fix this. Because at this time these examples are worse then Flash and can not even come close to the more sophisticated Flash websites.

Agreed. These *suck*. Did Apple really think these were good examples? They're ten years behind Flash and the iPhone performance is still considerably inferior to Flash performance on Froyo.

I also found at least two that refused to consistently work on touch screen inputs, demanding mouseover or keyboard inputs (wasn't that supposed to be one of the reasons Flash was bad for the iPhone).

Locking it to Safari only is a laughable blunder.

SDAVE said:
I've developed on flash before. ActionScript is not the greatest, but it is what it is.

ActionScript is a royal pain in the ass sometimes, but AS3 is leaps and bounds above trying to do the same things in Javascript, which is like trying to use AS2 with one hand tied behind your back, even with the proposed HTML5 changes.

Phazer
 
If all browsers will hurry up and get on board with HTML5, that won't happen.

Exactly. This isn't a "This site best viewed with IE" sort of thing because Apple is showcasing web standards, not some non-standard (like Flash, although Flash is pretty close to a standard in practice). Other browsers just have not been built to standards yet.

The sooner we can move away from Flash (or convince Adobe to fix Flash on the Mac), the better. I've had Flash completely crash my Mac twice within the past week and it frequently causes visual artifact on my computer (sometimes outside of the browser).
 
Great examples. It actually surprised me to not see my CPU indicator bars rev up as they would with Flash.
Nicely done Apple. Leading by example instead of being all talk like Adobe.
 
I think the key line that made me laugh was...

"some obvious limitations in the HTML5 version -- no sound and limited graphical effects"

If this is the rallying cry for dumping FLASH, I certainly don't get it. LOL

But I'll admit, Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field over the years has successfully convinced lots of people that omitting something was actually a feature, so I guess this is nothing new for Apple.
LOL
 
I wonder how fast the game eats battery life?

SJ was whinning about how Flash was bad on battery life - so I'm wondering the effect on battery life for this game.

LOL @ "some obvious limitations in the HTML5 version -- no sound and limited graphical effects". But Flash is capable of sound and full graphics? You can't have it both ways Stevie Boy.

Those HTML5 pages are very nice - especially the gallery.

However, HTML5 is all very nice - but not very practical until IE supports HTML5...
 
I've had Flash completely crash my Mac twice within the past week and it frequently causes visual artifact on my computer (sometimes outside of the browser).

I hear Flash crashes Mac a lot but it never actually happens to me. Before everyone gets their panties twisted I'm not saying its not true. I'm just curious as to what type of flash sites cause this. Full flash sites? (which I'm not a fan of) Or sites with Flash and html?
 
And on behalf of other Flash designers and developers, I would like to thank Apple for being douche bags trying to prove a point, and in the process probably eliminating work for people at a time when work is scarce.

I'm toying with 2 new mottos.
"Apple. Don't blame us. Blame Hypercard."
or
"Apple. If we can't figure out a way to make it work, we'll blame somebody else."

lash is entirel gone from the Internet. Holy sh**! Don't mess with the man. He one badmamamajamma. No more Flash and poof 6 months later its gone. Wait a minute. Hulu still works. They said they weren't switching, yet. So I guess, you might be a little wrong. If anyone has seen the total disappearance of Flash from the world, I apologize.
 
Compile 'em all said:
Just because flash works doesn't mean it is good.

MS Windows is pretty much everywhere and it is mediocre software at best.

Someone had to take a stand and say, "enough with this garbage, it is time for a replacement". Right about now HTML5 is not there yet but for MOST, HTML5 covers a lot of what flash is being used for. Today.

I am sure the demos Apple put online today raised a few eyebrows; " wow, you could do that in HTML?".

Yeah, like "wow look at all that aliasing in the video demo! Thanks HTML 5".
 
I tried these on my iPod Touch and performance is very laggy! It's cool on my Mac but it still makes my fans run very fast, the same way Flash does. It seems there's no CPU effective way of doing animations like this...

Oh and could anyone point me to an HTML5 authoring tool?? Please?? We can't be coding games and websites in freaking TextEdit!! This is not the command-line era where you type everything and hope it visually turns out in the way you wanted it when you compile it.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.