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So your suggesting it’s alright as it’s your fault if you update day 1? And what about all those people who have auto update turned on and are not tech savvy, and don’t follow the news? Should they expect a broken OS too then? Should they expect their device to automatically update and then delete their emails?
It comes across as sitting on your high horse a little to make a comment like that, sorry but when we had a perfectly fine OS with 12, for them to break simple things in 13 like the keyboard not popping up, or pasting not working, I can’t excuse them for that and neither should anyone else.

The average consumer who updated their phone on day one not knowing the ramifications don’t browse Macrumours. While there are undoubtedly users out there who may have been impacted by the update, it feels like a stretch to claim to want to hold them accountable on behalf on the millions of “hapless” users out there.

To me, there’s nothing to excuse or avenge. iOS 13 shipped, I got new features, and there were bugs (which Apple is no doubt working tirelessly to fix even as we speak). We got a minor patch today, and will likely get 13.2 in a couple of weeks. It is what it is, and life goes on.
 
Not downloading this for a bit, battery seems to be finally good on 13.1.2 on iPhone 8
On 7+, battery improved after 13.1.2 but not to the level it was at on iOS 12. It's usually down to 20% by lunch time and I have to recharge it at work, and then again when I get home from work. This is a phone with a battery that was replaced in December by Apple.

Just installed this latest patch. Hope it does something to make battery life better.
 
The average consumer who updated their phone on day one not knowing the ramifications don’t browse Macrumours. While there are undoubtedly users out there who may have been impacted by the update, it feels like a stretch to claim to want to hold them accountable on behalf on the millions of “hapless” users out there.

To me, there’s nothing to excuse or avenge. iOS 13 shipped, I got new features, and there were bugs (which Apple is no doubt working tirelessly to fix even as we speak). We got a minor patch today, and will likely get 13.2 in a couple of weeks. It is what it is, and life goes on.
But that’s because for you Apple can never do anything wrong.. can it. You’ll excuse anything they do no matter what it is.

I will await for the copy and paste, something that’s existed for years, to work properly again..
 
or the Apple TV OS working fine (so far as I know they don’t have any glaring bugs?).. perhaps Apples dev team are only capable of working in more simple devices like a watch or a streaming box?

Oh no...tvOS is buggy and ruined my Apple TV experience too. Not sure about watch. But everything across the board seems very buggy this time which makes me wonder what the heck is Apple doing this year? Where is the quality control? I have never had a problem with my ATV before. Now it doesn’t airplay properly and locks up. (Sigh) What happened Apple?
 
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At this rate, iOS 14 is going to release August 1st, 2020.

Time to update. I'm looking forward to 13.2
 
On 7+, battery improved after 13.1.2 but not to the level it was at on iOS 12. It's usually down to 20% by lunch time and I have to recharge it at work, and then again when I get home from work. This is a phone with a battery that was replaced in December by Apple.

Just installed this latest patch. Hope it does something to make battery life better.

The more I read such feedback, the less I am likely to update.
I hope your phone has a better battery life now.
 
here is the reason why is better to wait around 2-3 months after releases big upgrades, I don't blame Apple, there are so many many things a modern OS has, it would be impossible to release a perfect upgrade without massive real world testing…
 
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I'm glad they are fixing, but Jesus Christ Apple, can you possibly release an OS with more bugs?? iOS 13 has been a bad joke thus far.

Yeah, i know. It's ridiculous. Especially 13.0, that one really felt like a beta sometimes. I don't know what they did this year. I had the first public beta of iOS 13 installed and everything was extremely laggy and buggy, so i went back to iOS 12 the next day. I just couldn't do it.

I never had an issue however with the public betas of iOS 10, 11 and 12. Always installed them when they were released and zero problems.
 
...how about fixing the constant Location Services hollow arrow, which is now displayed on my iPhone XS everytime I connect my S4 Apple Watch (both devices on current iOS - and yes, checked relevant apps with no way of turning this off other than disabling ALL location services).

This NEVER happened prior to iOS 13.
:rolleyes: :mad:
 
Yeah, i know. It's ridiculous. Especially 13.0, that one really felt like a beta sometimes. I don't know what they did this year. I had the first public beta of iOS 13 installed and everything was extremely laggy and buggy, so i went back to iOS 12 the next day. I just couldn't do it.

I never had an issue however with the public betas of iOS 10, 11 and 12. Always installed them when they were released and zero problems.

Same here. I get a little tired of hearing "Well this OS or that OS was buggy too." That's not an acceptable excuse for the trainwreck that Apple released out into the wild. On top of that they made it impossible to revert back to iOS12 so they can put up a chart showing the number of customers who've switched to iOS13.

I love Apple and their products, but we deserve better and they need to do better.
 
here is the reason why is better to wait around 2-3 months after releases big upgrades, I don't blame Apple, there are so many many things a modern OS has, it would be impossible to release a perfect upgrade without massive real world testing…

Uh, they have a months long beta program for people to report bugs and to iron out issues. All of the issues that people are having with the OS have been reported to Apple numerous times through their feedback app.

Your statement of "I don't blame Apple" is part of the problem. You should blame Apple. They control both the hardware and software of their devices. No one is asking for perfection, but we shouldn't have to have 4 updates within a months time just to have a somewhat stable OS for the most expensive devices in the world.
 
Uh, they have a months long beta program for people to report bugs and to iron out issues. All of the issues that people are having with the OS have been reported to Apple numerous times through their feedback app.

Your statement of "I don't blame Apple" is part of the problem. You should blame Apple. They control both the hardware and software of their devices. No one is asking for perfection, but we shouldn't have to have 4 updates within a months time just to have a somewhat stable OS for the most expensive devices in the world.

Where’s the line between claiming to “hold Apple accountable for their missteps” and coming across as being whiny and entitled though? Because I am not sure what blaming Apple accomplishes (I assume you have all submitted feedback to Apple yourselves?).

I am sure Apple is aware of the bugs, and their developers are toiling away patching them even as we speak. Just that at any one time, they can only work on so much and some bugs will be prioritised more (or less) than others. I would personally find it very irritating and distracting, like when I am trying to complete a task and someone is behind shouting instructions, thinking they are helping but simply being more of a hindrance.

Of course all other things equal, I would prefer fewer bugs than more. But I saw the evolution of their software from the very first public beta to iPadOS being delayed by one week to 13.1, and it has really come a long way.

I don’t think Apple intended for there to be so many problems either, but this is precisely the reality when consumers expect a significantly different experience every year (which is itself made up of hardware, software and services).

When the alternatives are fewer features, later release dates, or slower, larger patches (because the complaint revolves around the issuance of so many patches, so reducing the frequency should give them one less thing to complain about, no?), I think Apple made the right call.

So instead, I think I will sit back and continue enjoying iOS 13 on my devices and continue installing updates as they come, and (silently) thanking their devs for fixing them.
 
On 7+, battery improved after 13.1.2 but not to the level it was at on iOS 12. It's usually down to 20% by lunch time and I have to recharge it at work, and then again when I get home from work. This is a phone with a battery that was replaced in December by Apple.

Just installed this latest patch. Hope it does something to make battery life better.
With regards to battery life, the best thing I did was upgrade my 7 Plus to an 11 Pro Max. My 11 Pro Max SIPS from the battery, whereas my 7+ would GULP. It's truly amazing how by the early afternoon, I'm still in the 90's. It's rare my battery is ever below 80 by the end of the day (with normal usage). Even using the camera a lot (while on vacation, which would just drain my 7+), my 11 Pro Max just sips power.

If for nothing else, the 11 Pro Max upgrade was worth it just for the battery life improvement.
 
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Where’s the line between claiming to “hold Apple accountable for their missteps” and coming across as being whiny and entitled though? Because I am not sure what blaming Apple accomplishes (I assume you have all submitted feedback to Apple yourselves?).

I am sure Apple is aware of the bugs, and their developers are toiling away patching them even as we speak. Just that at any one time, they can only work on so much and some bugs will be prioritised more (or less) than others. I would personally find it very irritating and distracting, like when I am trying to complete a task and someone is behind shouting instructions, thinking they are helping but simply being more of a hindrance.

Of course all other things equal, I would prefer fewer bugs than more. But I saw the evolution of their software from the very first public beta to iPadOS being delayed by one week to 13.1, and it has really come a long way.

I don’t think Apple intended for there to be so many problems either, but this is precisely the reality when consumers expect a significantly different experience every year (which is itself made up of hardware, software and services).

When the alternatives are fewer features, later release dates, or slower, larger patches (because the complaint revolves around the issuance of so many patches, so reducing the frequency should give them one less thing to complain about, no?), I think Apple made the right call.

So instead, I think I will sit back and continue enjoying iOS 13 on my devices and continue installing updates as they come, and (silently) thanking their devs for fixing them.

Lol whiny and entitled. It would be whiny and entitled if Apple devices were free. As it stands, they are the most expensive devices in the world and that price is based on getting the best hardware and OS experience out there.

And please enlighten me on what massive new features were introduced in iOS13. Dark Mode? Swipe Keyboard? iOS hasn’t seen a major upgrade in years. Each year is mainly a refinement or improvement on the previous years OS with some small new features thrown in. They effectively broke many features that worked fine in iOS12 and have been throwing out update and after update attempting to fix these things but seemingly can’t.

No one is saying Apple is making the wrong call with all of these updates. What is being said is that there shouldn’t have to be THIS many updates all centered around bug fixes. It’s ridiculous that this is the 4th update in a month and mail is just now finally being addressed. Mail? Are you kidding me? How can Microsoft and other third party apps have great email solutions that work great with iOS13, but Apple can’t get their own Mail app working correctly with the OS. Calendar invite big fixes on the 4th update of the month? Apple can’t get something as simple as calendar invites working correctly with their own OS? Multiple pictures is messages can’t be deleted? It’s their own messaging app and it worked fine in iOS 12 but they broke it in 13. I guess the “amazing” swipe keyboard is to blame lol.

Where is the line between allowing Apple to release an OS that is riddled with bugs and just being a blind fanboy that accepts whatever Apple throws at you? That’s a question you need to ask if you want to ask me the question you asked me at the start of your paragraphs.
 
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Oh no...tvOS is buggy and ruined my Apple TV experience too. Not sure about watch. But everything across the board seems very buggy this time which makes me wonder what the heck is Apple doing this year? Where is the quality control? I have never had a problem with my ATV before. Now it doesn’t airplay properly and locks up. (Sigh) What happened Apple?

I stand corrected! That’s impressive that they’ve managed to mess up a streaming device... my Apple watches (touch wood) have been ok so far...

I can’t believe people defend Apple over this mess.
 
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Lol whiny and entitled. It would be whiny and entitled if Apple devices were free. As it stands, they are the most expensive devices in the world and that price is based on getting the best hardware and OS experience out there.

And please enlighten me on what massive new features were introduced in iOS13. Dark Mode? Swipe Keyboard? iOS hasn’t seen a major upgrade in years. Each year is mainly a refinement or improvement on the previous years OS with some small new features thrown in. They effectively broke many features that worked fine in iOS12 and have been throwing out update and after update attempting to fix these things but seemingly can’t.

No one is saying Apple is making the wrong call with all of these updates. What is being said is that there shouldn’t have to be THIS many updates all centered around bug fixes. It’s ridiculous that this is the 4th update in a month and mail is just now finally being addressed. Mail? Are you kidding me? How can Microsoft and other third party apps have great email solutions that work great with iOS13, but Apple can’t get their own Mail app working correctly with the OS. Calendar invite big fixes on the 4th update of the month? Apple can’t get something as simple as calendar invites working correctly with their own OS? Multiple pictures is messages can’t be deleted? It’s their own messaging app and it worked fine in iOS 12 but they broke it in 13. I guess the “amazing” swipe keyboard is to blame lol.

Where is the line between allowing Apple to release an OS that is riddled with bugs and just being a blind fanboy that accepts whatever Apple throws at you? That’s a question you need to ask if you want to ask me the question you asked me at the start of your paragraphs.
Perfectly put!
 
...I can’t believe people defend Apple over this mess.
What mess?

I don’t gauge anything by the number of point releases. If Apple has to release something, let ‘em do it and I’ll install it.

Just because the devices aren’t dirt cheap doesn’t mean the software is bug free. Just because one buys an expensive car, doesn’t mean it won’t have a warranty repair.
 
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Is there anyone on here that understands why Apple persists in releasing software updates so defective that a deluge of .x updates to infinity are needed within a week or so? Unbelievable!
Ꮖ ᎢᎻᏆNK ᎢᎻᎪᎢᏚ ᏔᎻᎪᎢ ᎻᎪᏢPᎬNᏚ ᏔᎻᎬN YᎾᏌ ᎡᏌᏚᎻ ᎢᎻᏆNᏩᏚ.
 
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Where’s the line between claiming to “hold Apple accountable for their missteps” and coming across as being whiny and entitled though? Because I am not sure what blaming Apple accomplishes (I assume you have all submitted feedback to Apple yourselves?).

I am sure Apple is aware of the bugs, and their developers are toiling away patching them even as we speak. Just that at any one time, they can only work on so much and some bugs will be prioritised more (or less) than others. I would personally find it very irritating and distracting, like when I am trying to complete a task and someone is behind shouting instructions, thinking they are helping but simply being more of a hindrance.

Of course all other things equal, I would prefer fewer bugs than more. But I saw the evolution of their software from the very first public beta to iPadOS being delayed by one week to 13.1, and it has really come a long way.

I don’t think Apple intended for there to be so many problems either, but this is precisely the reality when consumers expect a significantly different experience every year (which is itself made up of hardware, software and services).

When the alternatives are fewer features, later release dates, or slower, larger patches (because the complaint revolves around the issuance of so many patches, so reducing the frequency should give them one less thing to complain about, no?), I think Apple made the right call.

So instead, I think I will sit back and continue enjoying iOS 13 on my devices and continue installing updates as they come, and (silently) thanking their devs for fixing them.

Stop it! You're not going to earn any forum cred with a non-whiny measured and reasonable adult response like the one above.
 
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Lol whiny and entitled. It would be whiny and entitled if Apple devices were free. As it stands, they are the most expensive devices in the world and that price is based on getting the best hardware and OS experience out there.

And please enlighten me on what massive new features were introduced in iOS13. Dark Mode? Swipe Keyboard? iOS hasn’t seen a major upgrade in years. Each year is mainly a refinement or improvement on the previous years OS with some small new features thrown in. They effectively broke many features that worked fine in iOS12 and have been throwing out update and after update attempting to fix these things but seemingly can’t.

Are you seriously asking me the exact same question that I just answered earlier today, a few posts above?

Though if you want a more in-depth look, you can read this article further here.


No one is saying Apple is making the wrong call with all of these updates. What is being said is that there shouldn’t have to be THIS many updates all centered around bug fixes. It’s ridiculous that this is the 4th update in a month and mail is just now finally being addressed. Mail? Are you kidding me? How can Microsoft and other third party apps have great email solutions that work great with iOS13, but Apple can’t get their own Mail app working correctly with the OS. Calendar invite big fixes on the 4th update of the month? Apple can’t get something as simple as calendar invites working correctly with their own OS? Multiple pictures is messages can’t be deleted? It’s their own messaging app and it worked fine in iOS 12 but they broke it in 13. I guess the “amazing” swipe keyboard is to blame lol.

Apple is basically pushing out updates and bug fixes out as quickly as they can fix them. The other option is that Apple sandbags and releases one larger patch addressing more issues at one go (but the downside is that you have to wait longer in between, and put up with those bugs that much longer).

Alternatively, you can choose not to update if you somehow have an issue with Apple’s pace of updates and wait till iOS 13.2. It’s pretty much the same thing.

I think Apple doesn’t get enough credit for the control they have over their ecosystem which allows them to push through updates as frequently as they do, compared to android where patches are few and far in between, assuming they even come at all.

This is precisely what I love about being in the Apple ecosystem and I will happily continue to install as many updates as Apple puts out

Where is the line between allowing Apple to release an OS that is riddled with bugs and just being a blind fanboy that accepts whatever Apple throws at you? That’s a question you need to ask if you want to ask me the question you asked me at the start of your paragraphs.

I don’t see why Apple needs your permission or mine to be allowed to do anything they do.

Yeah, there are bugs. Which Apple will (eventually) fix. Just like there are bugs with pretty much any app or software that I use these days. Windows continues to be patched on a weekly basis.

Like I said in my earlier post - and life goes on.

I don’t think “Apple needs to ensure that their software has absolutely zero bugs before releasing them” is a valid or realistic counterpoint, unless you never expect Apple to release any more software ever again. It allows the critics to take the high road, by claiming they are forcing Apple to be better by holding them up to impossible standards and unattainable goals.

But that’s just it. Talk is cheap, and it’s easy to point fingers and tell someone else to do their job when doing so doesn’t require any effort on our ends, while making us feel like we have made a huge difference in the world.

Honestly, if I were Apple, I would just wave my hand and go “whatever”, but that’s just me. As far as I am concerned and as far as I can see, yes, mistakes were made, and Apple is now doing the best they can to fix those mistakes, and if it means the good folks at Cupertino can sleep soundly at night knowing they have put in an honest day’s work, that’s good enough for me.

The fixes will come out when they come out, I doubt bloviating here is really going to accomplish anything beyond venting (again, you all did submit your bug reports to Apple, right?) and if it means having to live with a particular bug for a couple more extra days...

Then so be it.
 
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