Apple Speaks Out Against Trump Order to Rescind Protections for Transgender Students

[shk718]

What the hell is wrong with making this a state issue? Does the federal government have to be involve in everything? I see nothing wrong with this. If you care about the bathroom issue, simply bring it up to your state legislature and get the law changed for your state. Geesh people. It's not rocket science.

Should racial equality be left to the states to decide? If it is then my guess is every bigoted Republican southern state would have blacks thrown back into slavery. Human rights issues need to be protected at the Federal level, individual states have proven time and time again that they are incapable of protecting those most vulnarable to attack.

If anyone doesn't like Apple's involvement in human right's issues then you are most welcome to stop buying their products. You'll also have to stop partonizing every other American tech firm as they are all getting on board ( http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-transgender-apple-uber-microsoft-react-235295 ). In my opinion this would be a good thing - If you're a homophobic Republican then stop buying tech and go back to the stone age where you belong.

 

[gnasher729]

Yep, if you're not fine with some guy walking into the same bathroom as your wife and daughter, then you sir are a bigot. You're to be despised. A racist even.

It's not some guy. What Trump wants to keep out of your wife's and daughter's bathroom is a woman who formerly looked like a man. At the same time, what he wants to force into your bathroom is a man who formerly looked like a woman. Good luck.

 

[5105973]

Not to be glib and make light of your point, but I have always wondered why women "go together".
I always assumed it was to go and gossip! Live and learn…

Well, there's that, too! Sometimes we take advantage of the opportunity to hit each other up for makeup or other girl-stuff we forgot to bring along with us.

On a more serious note, the safety in numbers thing is more on a subconscious level we almost never acknowledge, but it's there in our minds when we read or hear of a woman or little girl assaulted in a restroom, having gone there alone.

Nowadays, our pack travel instincts seem to have extended to underage males almost close to adulthood. I've lost count of how many times I enter a ladies room to see a teenaged boy a foot taller than me in there with sisters or friends or a mom. It really makes me wonder about what's going on in men's rooms these days, that the teen boys need to be in the ladies rooms with us. The teen boys aren't in there with us to make trouble. They've been well behaved so far as I've seen. A bit noisy compared to girls. But well behaved. I can't say I like it, but if it's a matter of safety for some reason, I don't know what to think about it.

I never really saw boys in ladies rooms when I was really little as a kid in the 1970's. I guess it was maybe late 70's into the 80's I started seeing moms bring their little boys into the ladies rooms.

 

[brianvictor7]

Do you honestly not see the logical difference? It's pretty obvious, or should be.

Discrimination that hurts people who are just trying to go about their lives is bad.

Discrimination against behaviors and people that seek to harm other people is good.

I largely agree. Part of the problem is that what you presented isn't stated in the Apple's argument, or by most people for that matter.

I must also point out that the argument you presented about what behaviors are good/bad to discriminate against misses a 3rd category. What about discriminating against people who are "just trying to go about their lives" but whose behavior causes harm to others even though they don't seek to harm other people? Examples: people who text while driving aren't seeking to harm other people, but still cause a great deal of harm. People who buy the sexual services of others may not intend to harm others, but they end up creating the demand for trafficked human lives.

So, it is not a matter of whether or not people should stigmatize or discriminate, but what behaviors should be stigmatized and discriminated against. There is also a question of what that stigmatization should look like. There is a difference between calling someone out on a behavior and being vulgar about it.

 

[uknowimright]

look at all these selfish materialistic people

sad!

 

[inhalexhale1]

Couldn't disagree more. He's got a golden opportunity to speak out about these awful decisions that are screwing everything up for so many people. To stay silent would be showing, at best indifference, at worst complicity.

All this did was allow schools and states to make this call for themselves. Instead of issuing federal penalties to schools which don't comply. If a school board and the schools' community decides to allow transgender bathrooms, I'm personally OK with that. But I don't want the federeal government putting their hands on yet another area.

 

[gnasher729]

I am sure that Apple Park will have no gender specific restrooms. It'll be like Ally McBeal.

The next front on the poopy-wars will be for claustrophobes, and we'll just have mandated toilets with no walls around them in public places, because someone in Franksnout, Iowa is offended.

I know one restaurant where the bathroom walls are one way mirrors. You can't look in, but you can look out. Seriously. It's weird. People walk around and check if it is possible to look in before using these toilets. Should help with claustrophobes
[doublepost=1487859328][/doublepost]

No one cares, Apple. Focus on your products.

That's why there is a thread with 300+ messages. Because no one cares.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

How about an extra "neutral" bathroom like they have for families with baby changing stations?

Problem solved. NEXT!

Transgenders don't want a "Neutral" restroom. Same way gays were not satisfied with just a "Union" instead of marriage.(and rightfully so).

A public restroom's purpose is to take care of your business in an environment of their same sex peers, nothing more. Even though it's treated like a small social club sometimes. Sure transgenders might feel like they are the opposite of their born gender, but in the eyes of others, not so.

IMO, any transgender that's not post-op, really doesn't deserve to use the restroom of their choice. And many transgenders choose not to get a sex change operation, so if your not fully committed to having the sex organs of the opposite sex, then you shouldn't be using the restroom of the opposite sex. I know someone is going to say, a penis or vagina has nothing to do with gender, but it has everything to do with the way restrooms are designed and how others might feel in private like environment.

 

[gnasher729]

Well obviously not. if men think they're women then how have they figured it out

You are being intentionally obtuse.

There are no "men thinking they are women". There are women born in the wrong body. And men born in the wrong body. And the men born in the wrong body are whom the Orange Utan wants to send to women's bathrooms.

 

[ocnitsa]

What do you call a person that suffers from delusions and hallucinations?

Better yet, explain how it is not a delusion? Or you do you subscribe to the idea that all perception is reality?

The Trump team calls it alternative facts...not delusion.

 

[magicschoolbus]

I don't want a man in the woman's room with my little girl and wife because that man feels like a woman that day.

Not hard - if you are born with a male genitalia you're a man.

If you're born with female genitalia you're a woman.

They also said this is a States Rights issue. If states want to pass a law upholding this - then let them.

 

[darcyf]

Funny how Apple is so quick to speak on political issues, but silent on even acknowledging their products MANY shortcomings - especially as of late - exactly what kind of company are they trying to be?

I would expect anyone to be quicker to speak up about human rights in their own country than literally any other matter.

 

[Markoth]

Fact check: Three million more individuals voted for Trump's opponent in the general election.

Popular vote is a nice statistic, but a useless one, because our system doesn't work that way, and for good reason. Tyranny of the majority is a dangerous thing, and our system allows the minority to sometimes get their way.

 

[magicschoolbus]

Next from the liberal Apple:

Our employees will not be referred to as "he" or "she" or "ze" and will have safe spaces with no cisgender white men where people of color, gender identity, and religion can come together without feeling threatened by the evil white man who is the cause of every problem America fasces today.

 

[2010mini]

Here we go again. Stick to making consumer products.

 

[magicschoolbus]

Popular vote is a nice statistic, but a useless one, because our system doesn't work that way, and for good reason. Tyranny of the majority is a dangerous thing, and our system allows the minority to sometimes get their way.

BUT ZE POPULAR VOTE!!! OMG!!!

This is like saying - A team that goes out and has more shots on goal than actual goals scored wins a game.

 

[2010mini]

Here we go again. Stick to making consumer products.

The last time I checked, Tim Cook and Apple executives who live here also have a right to speak out on things they find are not right. Unless of course you believe the freedom of speech should only apply to non-business owners?

 

[uknowimright]

consumers should stick to consuming and shut up

 

[ucfgrad93]

Here we go again. Stick to making consumer products.

Agreed. Is there anything that a Trump will do that Apple won't speak out against?

 

[magicschoolbus]

Should racial equality be left to the states to decide? If it is then my guess is every bigoted Republican southern state would have blacks thrown back into slavery. Human rights issues need to be protected at the Federal level, individual states have proven time and time again that they are incapable of protecting those most vulnarable to attack.

If anyone doesn't like Apple's involvement in human right's issues then you are most welcome to stop buying their products. You'll also have to stop partonizing every other American tech firm as they are all getting on board ( http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-transgender-apple-uber-microsoft-react-235295 ). In my opinion this would be a good thing - If you're a homophobic Republican then stop buying tech and go back to the stone age where you belong.

Oh yeah - if you're someone that does not believe in gay marriage due to your religion go back to the stone age where you belong. How accepting of you.

 

[5105973]

Such a cynical view. Who cares about "values and laws" that are discriminatory? Sometimes you have to have principles.

I do have principles. Tim Cook has principles. The problem is his corporation is composed of a body of diverse individuals and does business in cultures with oppressive rules. Yet he shakes the hands of their leaders and smiles while in some town another of their leaders lets women and gays suffer various punishments and indignities for the crime of being themselves. Why? Because Apple the corporation can make crap tons of money for their shareholders in these places. I don't think Apple speaks as loudly for social justice in those countries because they'd be booted right out. Apple is in China. Google got booted out. Ask why. Apple caved to censorship and Google fought it.

Why is Apple in Cupertino such a social justice crusader for the transgendered yet has stores in the UAE? Where homosexuality is a crime for which a person can be jailed. It's not even legal to cross dress there. I can't imagine what rights, if any, a transgendered person has there. Does Apple knowingly transfer gay or transgender employees there, in defiance of their local laws? If Apple is actively paying legal fees and finding representation for employees being oppressed in the UAE, that's one thing. If Apple is petitioning the governments of the UAE to change their laws, that's also a good thing and makes Apple special.

That would take courage.

I think that by conflating his own personal values as an individual with Apple's as a corporation, and only when it's safe and legal to do so, he puts Apple in a position that is hypocritical.

Let Apple be Apple and let Tim represent himself when it comes to social justice. He can do that more effectively as a prominent individual than as a company currently contributing to oppressive economies that need to have their own grassroots movements to change from within.

I love a lot of what Tim Cook does, but I think he forgets he is not Apple. Or sometimes he acts like he forgets.

 

[mytdave]

Apple. Once again you're on the wrong side of history. You're siding with perversion, not reality. It doesn't matter what people "feel like" on any particular given day as to what bathroom they want to use. What matters is the real reality of what plumbing they have. Damn cold hard facts of life.

It's terrible when you have to deal with reality isn't it? /s

I have a suggestion. Stay out of politics and turn your attention back to building computing products, which as we all know, have been languishing.

 

[iphone1027]

Here we go again. Stick to making consumer products.

Exactly..

 

[hayesk]

I don't want a man in the woman's room with my little girl and wife because that man feels like a woman that day.

There's a lot wrong with your statement.

1. A man that feels like a woman in the bathroom is interested in using the bathroom; not your wife or little girl.
2. You're advocating that a woman that feels like a man be in the woman's room with your wife and little girl. That's right. Someone who is sexually attracted to women.
3. You make the assumption that said "main who feels like a woman" is a pedophile. If you saw a little girl in the bathroom, would you assault them? Of course not. So why would a transgender woman assault your little girl.

Not hard - if you are born with a male genitalia you're a man.

If you're born with female genitalia you're a woman.

Except that's completely false. Not everything in nature is so black and white. A law won't change that.

And let's also forget. There hasn't been a single incident of transgender people assaulting children in bathrooms. In other words, this is a made-up problem.

Let's also not forget, there have been several incidents of transgender people being assaulted when forced to use the bathroom based on their sex and not their gender.

Let people pee in the bathroom they see fit. There hasn't been a problem before, so why are we making problems?

 

[Hedwigg]

Build great products. Shut up. Stay out of it. This goes for all causes, liberal or conservative. As a corporation, there is no reason to alienate potential buyers on either side of the aisle.

If you feel alienated by this statement, I pity you and those around you.

With that said, anyone and everyone has the right to their political opinions... THAT'S HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS.