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Even if they come up with a vaccine to the virus the biggest challenge will still remain there which is trying to locate the last person with the virus.

Unless the virus fades and die out naturally it will be hard to catch and locate the last group of people or last person with the virus.

It only takes one or two people to spread the virus all over again.
 
Even if they come up with a vaccine to the virus the biggest challenge will still remain there which is trying to locate the last person with the virus.

Unless the virus fades and die out naturally it will be hard to catch and locate the last group of people or last person with the virus.

It only takes one or two people to spread the virus all over again.
Look up herd immunity. You're also presuming everyone who catches it will be affected by it. Not so. Asymptomatic means you feel nothing. You feel normal. You don't even know you're sick, not even a tiny bit. You could be incredibly contagious, and you wouldn't know. You'd be putting people who may not have been exposed to it at risk. Right now there's few tests to go around. Even if you tested 50,000 people in the US every day, it'll take donkeys years to test everyone. You may find that 50% of the population carries the antibodies already.

Given how long we know this has been around, far earlier than official data, it wouldn't be surprising if we find out a large chunk of populations have antibodies.


327,000,000 est. people in the US in 2018

50K tests a day = 6,540 days
120K tests a day = 2,725 days
300K tests a day = 1,090 days
500K tests a day = 654 days
750K tests a day = 436 days
900K tests a day = 363 days

This is presuming a test with 100% accuracy and issued one time. Tests are issued 3x as far as I know. Initial diagnosis, while patient is in recovery, prior to being sent home to make sure they're 100% recovered and the virus is inactivated in them. The last stage can burn through several tests because current tests aren't 100% accurate.

If you were aiming for that last figure, you'd need a steady supply of tests to run upwards of 3,000,000 tests every day to every other day in the US alone.
 
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You may find that 50% of the population carries the antibodies already... Given how long we know this has been around, far earlier than official data, it wouldn't be surprising if we find out a large chunk of populations have antibodies.

I don't think you were speculating that maybe half the country already got it and got over it, but I've been seeing enough people express that exact thought that I felt the need to weigh in.

While it's becoming evident that there are at least a significant number of asymptomatic carriers out there and an even larger number of minimally symptomatic people who already recovered, it doesn't make sense that it would be a huge chunk of the population. If this was going around like wildfire in January and February, I think our hospitals would have seen the surge in demand they're starting to see now.

If the current demand is the product of a super contagious disease with a miniscule death rate that's spreading super fast, that wouldn't make sense either because we'd see a lot more positive tests. Yeah, there can be a lot of false negatives, but we're seeing mostly negative tests even though our criteria for giving out tests basically assumes that you do have Covid-19 and we just want to make sure.

I've also seen lots of posts on social media from people saying, "You know. I think I probably got it in February. I had a fever and a severe cough that I couldn't get over." Surely for some it will be the case they had Covid-19, but for the vast majority who thought this, they probably had some other random respiratory virus, a cold, or the flu.

We're all awash in a sea of medical information right now. We all have "medical student's disease" from being bombarded with disease information 24/7 so everyone is overestimating their chances of having it. For some people, believing they had it might be a coping mechanism, which is ok if it makes you feel better, but isn't ok if it gives you a false sense of security and you end up getting it as a result.
 
Look up herd immunity. You're also presuming everyone who catches it will be affected by it. Not so. Asymptomatic means you feel nothing. You feel normal. You don't even know you're sick, not even a tiny bit. You could be incredibly contagious, and you wouldn't know. You'd be putting people who may not have been exposed to it at risk. Right now there's few tests to go around. Even if you tested 50,000 people in the US every day, it'll take donkeys years to test everyone. You may find that 50% of the population carries the antibodies already.

Given how long we know this has been around, far earlier than official data, it wouldn't be surprising if we find out a large chunk of populations have antibodies.


327,000,000 est. people in the US in 2018

50K tests a day = 6,540 days
120K tests a day = 2,725 days
300K tests a day = 1,090 days
500K tests a day = 654 days
750K tests a day = 436 days
900K tests a day = 363 days

This is presuming a test with 100% accuracy and issued one time. Tests are issued 3x as far as I know. Initial diagnosis, while patient is in recovery, prior to being sent home to make sure they're 100% recovered and the virus is inactivated in them. The last stage can burn through several tests because current tests aren't 100% accurate.

If you were aiming for that last figure, you'd need a steady supply of tests to run upwards of 3,000,000 tests every day to every other day in the US alone.

The disease is silent and very contiguous so people unwillingly will keep spreading it to others. So, tracking every person and those who affected will become a hard and time consuming task.

For example two weeks ago an African man with Covid19 flew from Norway to his country and tested posotive at the destination so there is high chance he unwillingly infected others.
 
I don't think you were speculating that maybe half the country already got it and got over it, but I've been seeing enough people express that exact thought that I felt the need to weigh in.

While it's becoming evident that there are at least a significant number of asymptomatic carriers out there and an even larger number of minimally symptomatic people who already recovered, it doesn't make sense that it would be a huge chunk of the population. If this was going around like wildfire in January and February, I think our hospitals would have seen the surge in demand they're starting to see now.

Who said January and February? The discussion goes back to September/October. We only knew how to diagnose these deaths a few months ago. COVID is more contagious than the regular yearly flu strains. What areas are getting hit the hardest globally? How are lesser traveled areas (see:rural) getting it? By outsiders coming in.

I don't for a second believe the CDC tracked the first US case down on January 2020 from a passenger landing in Washington state or San Francisco from Wuhan. If they were contagious on the plan, then all those people were exposed as a portion of aircraft air does circulate, while the rest is drawn in from outside.

If this is just the beginning, then the presumed surge in 2 weeks will have to be modified to more than 30 days from now, and any current modeling is irrelevant if we go by what you're saying. You're also presuming people would need to be taken into ICU when presenting symptoms. Urgent care facilities may have had an influx of patients. Not every person who is positive for COVID requires hospital stays or ambulatory services.

If the current demand is the product of a super contagious disease with a miniscule death rate that's spreading super fast, that wouldn't make sense either because we'd see a lot more positive tests. Yeah, there can be a lot of false negatives, but we're seeing mostly negative tests even though our criteria for giving out tests basically assumes that you do have Covid-19 and we just want to make sure.

One of the best tests out there now that's been used for a while has only an 85-90% accuracy rate. Further tests have been approved by the FDA but how accurate they are is up for measurement. You're also bringing up a "miniscule death rate" on reported cases and confirmed COVID19 deaths.

So what about all the countries including the US that had COVID19 deaths prior to knowing what they were dealing with? Or the countries including the US who are covering up deaths? Mexico is listing their sudden spike in deaths as pneumonia related, not COVID. This paints a picture of minuscule deaths in the face of reported cases.
I've also seen lots of posts on social media from people saying, "You know. I think I probably got it in February. I had a fever and a severe cough that I couldn't get over." Surely for some it will be the case they had Covid-19, but for the vast majority who thought this, they probably had some other random respiratory virus, a cold, or the flu.
URIs are common in the winter. I'd place more faith in people who lived in busy areas of the country rather than some little down in Idaho.

Let me drive this home once more. We're very bad at testing. We're only testing severe cases in some areas, and other symptoms in other areas. It won't be long until the daily count rapidly rises for those who test positive for the virus. It's still not enough tests. No country was prepared for this. No state is prepared for this.

Now if we consider your post to hold water, then what we're seeing now is just the beginning assuming there isn't a decent chunk of the population with antibodies. We're going to see a dramatic spike in hospitalizations and deaths until a vaccine is developed.
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The disease is silent and very contiguous so people unwillingly will keep spreading it to others. So, tracking every person and those who affected will become a hard and time consuming task.

For example two weeks ago an African man with Covid19 flew from Norway to his country and tested posotive at the destination so there is high chance he unwillingly infected others.
Was there a point in reiterating my post in the first half or bringing up an example which I'd already explained earlier in the thread? It's clear you don't understand how herd immunity works or you wouldn't have asked that question earlier. Waste someone else's time.

That man infected those at the airport if particulate matter escaped his oral cavity and others weren't protected. If he coughed into his hands and touched a railing. If that railing was touched by a child who then scrubbed their eye or mouth without washing their hand or their parent didn't see them touch it. Airliner air is partially recirculated. Particulates in the cabin air may get trapped via filters or may be dispersed infecting others. Those sitting next to him may have gotten infected. Now this means nothing but it could also mean he alone with his actions eventually caused a few hundred to a thousand people to become infected.

How many don't show symptoms, how many that do on a variable scale, and how many end up dying is up in the air.
 
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Who said January and February? The discussion goes back to September/October.

I know there's some speculation that not only was the virus around earlier, but it was even in Italy earlier. The Chinese scientists don't even think the November 17th case was the first. It's just the first they could identify.

Anyway, you're placing the timeline of infection in the US a good two months before the earliest confirmed case in China (November 17th), so where are you getting this?

Now if we consider your post to hold water, then what we're seeing now is just the beginning assuming there isn't a decent chunk of the population with antibodies. We're going to see a dramatic spike in hospitalizations and deaths until a vaccine is developed.

Don't you consider what's going on right now to be a dramatic spike in hospitalizations and deaths?

Yes, our testing is not very good and deaths are either mistakenly or intentionally excluded from statistics, but I don't see how that supports your hypothesis that the mass infection event started in September and 50% of the population is already infected.

How come we didn't see a spike in hospitalizations in December or January then? And how is it able to spread so easily if 50% of the population has antibodies and is therefore immune? We'd have some significant herd immunity if even 50% of the people can't be vectors anymore.

I wouldn't be surprised if the timeline for events gets drastically shifted when all is said and done, but I'm just not following the logic of what you're saying in regards to the mass infection happening more or less silently without a tell tale surge in hospitalizations to alert us that something was seriously wrong.
 
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Dire estimate

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said that millions of Americans could become infected with the coronavirus, and that the outbreak could kill 100,000 to 200,000 Americans.

In the U.S. there are now over 150,000 reported infections, nearly 5,000 people recovered, and over 2,700 deaths, as the numbers keep rising. Projections will become more reliable when the rate of new cases finally starts to decrease.
 
They’re re-evaluating May 1 in my state if they’re going to reinstate churches, open shopping malls, stadiums, Gyms, schools, etc. It seems there’s a lot of community discussion where residents want things to ‘normalize‘, (In Which nothing will ever normalize after this situation, ever again.) To be honest, I’m the opposite, I think all those venues I listed above should be tentatively closed throughout the whole month of May, to make sure that we don’t have a second wave uptick with C/19. In this case, it really is about being better ‘safe than sorry’. And I’m confident my Governor will make the most appropriate decision come May 1.
 
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Don't you consider what's going on right now to be a dramatic spike in hospitalizations and deaths?
I've read some interesting reports in the past few weeks. Most deaths are pegged to underlying conditions, including but not limited to obesity. We have a lot of that here. I don't find it surprising our death rate will spike due to our poor medical system which has some weird facade of it being elite compared to other similarly developed countries. Even with ACA, people avoided the doctor because the costs were "criminal" for a mere checkup let alone an immediate consult. So, no, the deaths I'm seeing are primarily due to underlying illness whether known or not. It's hard to compare countries in cases and deaths because spread and viral load can more or less be explained. End being that those who aren't in the best of shape may face issues. Though I suspect overweight people or obese who've taken up exercise in the last few months or longer stand a greater chances of survival because their cardiovascular system has been "trained on" so to speak. There's some overweight bloke on one of the local trails here. Maybe 300-350 lb. That man runs faster and harder without stopping. I considered he may be an Iron Man type of competitor but the visuals proved otherwise. Good on him, to be frank. I hope he doesn't get it. The earlier concept of viral load seems to be being argued against now. Whatever the case, best not to dwell too much on it as it'll have a lasting effect on your mental health. And this type of strain on the mind can also strain the rest of your body, from your nervous system to your organs.

What we do need to do is what China did with nighttime decontamination in high risk/passage areas. I believe the wealthy Gulf countries are doing this now, too. No idea what they're using but I imagine it's a benzalkonium chloride concentrate which you can buy or could at some point. Night time spraying of a diluted substance allows a higher contact time on surfaces to disinfect properly. I have a few gallons of another benzyl disinfectant I sometimes dilute to a very low amount to spray certain areas outside the house if I suspect wildlife has come along and urinated, dropped fecal matter or whatever. It's the same stuff that's recommended to be used in an humidifier. But it's a drop or two once a week to prevent bacterial growth.

Unfortunately, you can't use this from an airplane or it being aerosolized since it's toxic when breathed in past a certain amount. I don't know of any human safe disinfectants that can be aerosolized and not cause internal irritation or toxicity.
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In Which nothing will ever normalize after this situation, ever again
This may send the wrong message, but I hope you're right and that's what I want to happen, too. We must change how we do things globally. This outbreak could have easily been avoided if countries took it seriously. I'm just waiting to see Jair "Angry Bird Face Mask" Bolsonaro to drop dead since he's likely infected.
 
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It seems there’s a lot of community discussion where residents want things to ‘normalize‘, (In Which nothing will ever normalize after this situation, ever again.)
Which is something I am very nervous about. I don't doubt the necessity of the measures taken now but am worried about what lasting effects will entail not all which will be positive in my view. Grist for another thread.
 
Most deaths are pegged to underlying conditions, including but not limited to obesity. We have a lot of that here.

Obesity is going to be a huge problem in the fight against Covid-19.
Last week I was reading this terrifying report by the CDC (obviously no one really cares about the topic now). Bottom line: "In 2017–2018, the agea djusted prevalence of obesity in adults was 42.4%, and there were no significant differences between men and women among all adults or by age group."

This graphic, from the report, shows the trend. 42% of the population is obese, and almost 10% is severely obese. That is BAD, especially if you consider that we went from 30% to 42% (or from 4.7% to 9.2% severely obese) in less than 20 years.

obesityCDC.PNG



It is of note that usually those in the "Severe obesity" category (but not only them) have other underlying conditions caused or enhanced by obesity, such as diabetes, high cholesterol, heart issues, etc.
From a certain point of view, our own behavior made this virus somewhat stronger...
 
Obesity is going to be a huge problem in the fight against Covid-19.
Scotland, too. While their obesity figures within the UK aren't too high, I'd imagine pulmonary risks are higher to the semi-refined diet they eat. I know it's a bit of a meme to say they eat fried foods a lot, but it really isn't. The Australians are screwed as well.
 
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