Coronavirus (Covid-19) informational thread

[Falhófnir]

My Family back in Italy is now in the red zone. They are in complete lockdown.

I have to wonder exactly how much ability (or probably more so willingness) a Western government has to enforce this sort of quarantine... I assume it depends largely on voluntary co-operation from the populace, but assuming people get fed up to the point they start rebelling and flouting the ban, would a democratic government call in the army to enforce?

 

[Healer Flame]

if the virus is primarly spread by mucus droplets

The way its spreading it looks like the virus was released on air something like hydrogen bomb but on different scale and effect.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I have to wonder exactly how much ability (or probably more so willingness) a Western government has to enforce this sort of quarantine... I assume it depends largely on voluntary co-operation from the populace, but assuming people get fed up to the point they start rebelling and flouting the ban, would a democratic government call in the army to enforce?

they are issuing an emergency decree (see link), and I am told it’s enforced.

https://static.gedidigital.it/repubblica/pdf/2020/cronaca/bozza.pdf?ref=drnweb.repubblica.scroll-1

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WHO’s statement on cases surpassing 100,000:

WHO statement on cases of COVID-19 surpassing 100 000

As of today’s reports, the global number of confirmed cases of COVID-19 has surpassed 100 000. As we mark this sombre moment, the World Health Organization (WHO) reminds all countries and communities that the spread of this virus can be significantly slowed or even reversed through the...

www.who.int

 

[jkcerda]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-experts-worst-case-scenario-224941707.html

Coronavirus: Expert's worst-case scenario is 96 million infected in US with up to 500,000 dead

My Family back in Italy is now in the red zone. They are in complete lockdown.

Lombardi?

 

[yaxomoxay]

Lombardi?

yup. Milan.

 

[jkcerda]

best wishes for everyone.

 

[edvj]

• 35 individuals tested positive in Denmark, 2 of them from the Faroe Islands
• 628 individuals are in quarantine
  
  
• Mette Frederiksen, the prime minister of Denmark, recommends people to completely stop hugging and shaking hands with people
  
  
• The government has asked organisers to cancel events with large attendances.
  
  
• At Aarhus Hospital they have created a "drive-through", where you can come if your doctor gave you a reference. You drive there by car, and you will be tested in the car
  
• https://www.en.auh.dk/

 

[A.Goldberg]

If this is viable (can be researched) aromatherapy or essential oils may provide a protection from coronus virus because these oils are known to destroy germs like e ecoli, staph, plague or anything one lunged and destroy or stop mold/mildew...by diffusing oils into the air it will eliminate orders and smells plus ionize...can be used in cars etc

Home | NAHA

The National Association for Holistic Aromatherapy is a 501(c)3 member based non-profit association devoted to the holistic integration and education of aromatherapy into a wide range of complementary healthcare practices including self care and home pharmacy.

naha.org

aromaweb.com

I’m going to recommend that we make every effort in this thread to share content based on the best quality information form reputable sources.

@yaxomoxay mentioned in the opening post the intention of this thread to be an informal but informative and apolitical discussion. He (or she) correctly states that not all published information is reliable/accurate/factual and I believe implies “appropriate”sources are those known to provide high quality and reliable information.

Aromatherapy is considered pseudoscience and are not the recommendations of any legitimate medical authority. Homeopathy and naturopathy are also considered pseudosciences. I don’t believe pseudoscience is helpful. And make no mistake there are companies marketing products and will be pushing them to make a quick buck off COVOD-19 despite no legitimate evidence to back their claims.

I suggest if you want to discuss alternative medicine it should be done so in a thread of its own. I don’t mean to make this a controversial issue but I think when it comes to prevention guidelines we stick to qualified authorities on the matter like the CDC, WHO, ECDC, etc or be based on consensus accepted evidence.

 

[nicho]

And Make no mistake there are companies marketing such products will be pushing them to make a quick buck off COVOD-19 despite no legitimate evidence to back their product’s claims.

Calling it COVOD-19 or Clovid-19 (thread title) is a good way of sketchily avoiding future lawsuits.

I suggest if you want to discuss alternative medicine it should be done so in a thread of its own. I don’t mean to make this a controversial issue but I think when it comes to prevention guidelines we stick to qualified authorities on the matter like the CDC, WHO, ECDC, etc or be based on consensus accepted evidence.

I believe from interactions in the first couple of pages, this might not be a sentiment shared by the OP.


"Current cases" (those confirmed to have developed COVID-19 and not yet confirmed to have recovered or died) in the "rest of the world" (22,000) have now surpassed those in China (20600) and on the current trajectories those numbers will only grow further apart.

Of slight concern is that the number of deaths around the globe now stands at 501 with 25000 confirmed cases. For reference, the official numbers in China (outside of Hubei province) are 114 deaths from 13143 confirmed cases, ie around half. As the virus ran its course in China, death rates increased slightly but steadily (ie, if the rest of the world follows the same pattern, that rate isn't going to naturally decrease because of some phenomenon where people die quickly and recover slowly...). I say ran its course because of those 13143 confirmed cases, 12237 of them have concluded (whether positive or negative in outcome).

 

[smirking]

As the virus ran its course in China, death rates increased slightly but steadily (ie, if the rest of the world follows the same pattern, that rate isn't going to naturally decrease because of some phenomenon where people die quickly and recover slowly...). I say ran its course because of those 13143 confirmed cases, 12237 of them have concluded (whether positive or negative in outcome).

Yeah, I've been noticing the same thing. People are coming up with lower Case Fatality Rates by counting all infected people was people who've recovered because they're not dead. Many of those who are still alive are eventually going to get counted in the deaths column.

It looks like the predictions of 1-2% are going to end up being true. The WHO advises that there's little reason to believe that the case fatality rate is going to plummet once we account for minimally symptomatic carriers who aren't being counted because China left no stone unturned in finding and testing every single person who may have been infected. They deployed over 9000 epidemiologists to track down anyone who had close contact with someone who tested positive. The WHO believes that dragnet was effective in catching most of the people who had it, but didn't know.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Calling it COVOD-19 or Clovid-19 (thread title) is a good way of sketchily avoiding future lawsuits.

No, just a mistake I didn’t notice!!! Changing it now.

I believe from interactions in the first couple of pages, this might not be a sentiment shared by the OP.

and you would be very wrong. I don’t believe in homeopathy, aromatherapy, herbal cures, or even fad diets. If I am sick or have a medical question, I go to the doctor.
To fix my heart I went to a good surgeon that opened it and fixed it, I didn’t go to the shaman. So please stop that line of reasoning. I simply can’t control what the other users believe and want to share.

 

[nicho]

No, just a mistake I didn’t notice!!! Changing it now.



and you would be very wrong. I don’t believe in homeopathy, aromatherapy, herbal cures, or even fad diets. If I am sick or have a medical question, I go to the doctor.
To fix my heart I went to a good surgeon that opened it and fixed it, I didn’t go to the shaman. So please stop that line of reasoning. I simply can’t control what the other users believe and want to share.

Sorry in case it wasn't clear - the sentiment I didn't think you shared was the "take it elsewhere" suggestion rather than anything else that was stated.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Sorry in case it wasn't clear - the sentiment I didn't think you shared was the "take it elsewhere" suggestion rather than anything else that was stated.

I share it. I just can’t control it other than deleting the thread as it was recommended. That’s what I don’t share, that is, closing the thread because of one or two user.

 

[nicho]

This just may have been a accidently on purpose release to find out what would happen if something like this occurred.

Thankfully those aroma oils will fix it.

 

[JagdTiger]

Thankfully those aroma oils will fix it.

It may help, at least it could have people feel better that something can be done and it will have the household smell nice and ionize the the air around the apartment or condo, etc.

It will not stop what is written on the Georgia guide stones.
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In my personal experience, I am just as likely to run into a moron walking around in public than to run into a person who knows their butt from a hole in the ground. It's sad but true.

Online, twice as likely to run into morons.
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I sort of get the toilet paper thing... but I have to do a lot of mental gymnastics. And even then, buying and hoarding dozens of rolls?

The bottled water thing has me flummoxed. The water never got shut off in China. Why would it get shut off in the US or any other developed country? Anyway, if that is a real concern, one would think that the thing to do is to buy large water containers - think 50+ gallons. And start filling while water is still flowing through the tap.

I am open to the idea that I am the moron in this scenario but somehow I doubt it.

It would be better (if people can afford it) to purchase a reverse osmosis or gravity fed filter like Berkey or Aqua Rain...this way they can filter and collect they're own water.

Berkey Filters - Buy Berkey Water Filter Systems - USA Berkey Filters

Enjoy clean water with Berkey filters. We're the leading distributor Berkey Water Filter Systems and replacement filters and parts with free US shipping.

www.usaberkeyfilters.com

AquaRain Natural Water Filter

www.aquarain.com

 

[nicho]

It may help, at least it could have people feel better that something can be done and it will have the household smell nice and ionize the the air around the apartment or condo, etc.

It will not stop what is written on the Georgia guide stones.

Someone has changed their tune since they were banned the first pages.

Thanks for guiding me towards the Georgia guide stones. I enjoyed wasting my time reading tidbits such as:

The fact that most Americans have never heard of the Georgia Guidestones or their message to humanity reflects the degree of control that exists today over what the American people think. We ignore that message at our peril.

Replace the words "the Georgia Guidestones" with "Marco and Janet who live downstairs" and you see how ridiculous that statement is.

 

[JagdTiger]

Thousands held on cruise ship off US west coast as scientists say: ‘This is now a pandemic’

Warning after 21 test positive on liner, while in Spain police lock down blocks of flats and in China a quarantine hotel collapses

www.theguardian.com

I dont much about thegaurdian but it was a good read.... independent press?
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they are issuing an emergency decree (see link), and I am told it’s enforced.

https://static.gedidigital.it/repubblica/pdf/2020/cronaca/bozza.pdf?ref=drnweb.repubblica.scroll-1

[automerge]1583622552[/automerge]
WHO’s statement on cases surpassing 100,000:

WHO statement on cases of COVID-19 surpassing 100 000

As of today’s reports, the global number of confirmed cases of COVID-19 has surpassed 100 000. As we mark this sombre moment, the World Health Organization (WHO) reminds all countries and communities that the spread of this virus can be significantly slowed or even reversed through the...

www.who.int

Most likely the answer is yes.


[*]Mette Frederiksen, the prime minister of Denmark, recommends people to completely stop hugging and shaking hands with peoples


[*]The government has asked organisers to cancel events with large attendances.


[*]At Aarhus Hospital they have created a "drive-through", where you can come if your doctor gave you a reference. You drive there by car, and you will be tested in the carView attachment 898034
[*]https://www.en.auh.dk/
[/LIST]
[/QUOTE]

No french kissing too!

 

[JagdTiger]

I’m going to recommend that we make every effort in this thread to share content based on the best quality information form reputable sources.

@yaxomoxay mentioned in the opening post the intention of this thread to be an informal but informative and apolitical discussion. He (or she) correctly states that not all published information is reliable/accurate/factual and I believe implies “appropriate”sources are those known to provide high quality and reliable information.

Aromatherapy is considered pseudoscience and are not the recommendations of any legitimate medical authority. Homeopathy and naturopathy are also considered pseudosciences. I don’t believe pseudoscience is helpful. And make no mistake there are companies marketing products and will be pushing them to make a quick buck off COVOD-19 despite no legitimate evidence to back their claims.

I suggest if you want to discuss alternative medicine it should be done so in a thread of its own. I don’t mean to make this a controversial issue but I think when it comes to prevention guidelines we stick to qualified authorities on the matter like the CDC, WHO, ECDC, etc or be based on consensus accepted evidence.

Aromatherapy is not pseudoscience, provide evidence of this and not some mainstream medical website or journal payd for by the pharmaceutical industry.
[automerge]1583681580[/automerge]

I’m going to recommend that we make every effort in this thread to share content based on the best quality information form reputable sources.

@yaxomoxay mentioned in the opening post the intention of this thread to be an informal but informative and apolitical discussion. He (or she) correctly states that not all published information is reliable/accurate/factual and I believe implies “appropriate”sources are those known to provide high quality and reliable information.

Aromatherapy is considered pseudoscience and are not the recommendations of any legitimate medical authority. Homeopathy and naturopathy are also considered pseudosciences. I don’t believe pseudoscience is helpful. And make no mistake there are companies marketing products and will be pushing them to make a quick buck off COVOD-19 despite no legitimate evidence to back their claims.

I suggest if you want to discuss alternative medicine it should be done so in a thread of its own. I don’t mean to make this a controversial issue but I think when it comes to prevention guidelines we stick to qualified authorities on the matter like the CDC, WHO, ECDC, etc or be based on consensus accepted evidence.

If you think natural medicine is pseudoscience then think again, the first heart medicine was a plant called foxglove and the scientific name is digitalis.
[automerge]1583682065[/automerge]

Someone has changed their tune since they were banned the first pages.

Thanks for guiding me towards the Georgia guide stones. I enjoyed wasting my time reading tidbits such as:

The fact that most Americans have never heard of the Georgia Guidestones or their message to humanity reflects the degree of control that exists today over what the American people think. We ignore that message at our peril.

Replace the words "the Georgia Guidestones" with "Marco and Janet who live downstairs" and you see how ridiculous that statement is.

The Georgia guide stones are prescribing a new world order and in doing so would most likely try to make this happen in any way possible.

 

[kobalap]

Aromatherapy is not pseudoscience, provide evidence of this and not some mainstream medical website or journal payd for by the pharmaceutical industry.
[automerge]1583681580[/automerge]

If you think natural medicine is pseudoscience then think again, the first heart medicine was a plant called foxglove and the scientific name is digitalis.
[automerge]1583682065[/automerge]

The Georgia guide stones are prescribing a new world order and in doing so would most likely try to make this happen in any way possible.

Come on man, this is funny in other threads. But can we keep this non-sense out of this thread? Please.

 

[Arran]

...Replace the words "the Georgia Guidestones" with "Marco and Janet who live downstairs" and you see how ridiculous that statement is.

But I don't have a downstairs. So there's a secret basement under my house?

You think there's hand sanitizer down there?

 

[bunnspecial]

It will be if it keeps going, alot of the stats could be kept from the public do to paranoia produced from constant propagation from the mainstream media...the public goes into chaos mode when this virus arrives in they're neighborhood.

At first it was in China, then the mid-east and then Italy, other places and now America with several states already having it and not counting people walking around with this virus.

This just may have been a accidently on purpose release to find out what would happen if something like this occurred.

The Georgia guide stones has something which is horrifying to read and may have insight to not coming events.

Georgia Guidestones · 1031 Guidestone Rd NW, Elberton, GA 30635

4.2 â · Historical landmark in Elbert County, Georgia

www.google.com

You did not answer my direct question, which is to provide a credible reference that COVID-19 is a pandemic. Instead you are talking about Georgia guide stones, which is not in any way related to the question I asked.

I phrased the question as I did because, as of today, March 8 2020 at 1:00PM EDT, the WHO has not classified COVID-19 as a "pandemic."
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Aromatherapy is not pseudoscience, provide evidence of this and not some mainstream medical website or journal payd for by the pharmaceutical industry.

Why do you not trust peer reviewed medical literature?

BTW, scientists(I am one) are obligated to disclose any conflicts of interest in publication of research. The journals themselves(have you ever looked at one? JAMA is a good place to start, but certainly not the only one) don't carry advertisements. The publication and editorial costs are paid for by the publishing society and/or subscription fees. BTW, if you've ever priced out a subscription to a peer-reviewed journal, it's not inexpensive. I sometimes forget just how much they are since, if I'm at work, if I click on a link to Elsevier or wherever usually the full text just pops up, but when I'm not at work I will often be prompted for $40+ to read a single article.

 

[A.Goldberg]

It may help, at least it could have people feel better that something can be done and it will have the household smell nice and ionize the the air around the apartment or condo, etc.

It will not stop what is written on the Georgia guide stones.
[automerge]1583678984[/automerge]

Berkey Filters - Buy Berkey Water Filter Systems - USA Berkey Filters

Enjoy clean water with Berkey filters. We're the leading distributor Berkey Water Filter Systems and replacement filters and parts with free US shipping.

www.usaberkeyfilters.com

AquaRain Natural Water Filter

www.aquarain.com

Sure Aromatherapy might “make people feel better”, but it may also cause respiratory allergic/hypersensitivity reactions. In cases of respiratory illnesses, such a COVID-19 and pnuemonia, such adverse effects could be extremely detrimental. In people with underlying respiratory diseases such as asthma or COPD adverse effects could be compounded.

In my experience there are two or three groups of people who try alternative medicines. One is people on limited budgets with limited healthcare literacy. To save money they forgo conventional medical treatment and try alternative methods they read about online. Not only can this have disastrous consequences when their condition is not treated or they experience problems directly associated with the product, they also are throwing away money they can’t afford to lose. And in some cases their effort to save a few bucks creates far more costly problems.

Several years ago when I worked in an ER had a patient who had a severe allergic reaction particularly affecting her skin that ended up being then result of “essential oils”. Not so essential after all. We also had a toddler suffer a life’s threatening asthma attack from some kind of oil. Some of these oils also have issues with sun exposure, pregnancy, etc.

It’s important not to underestimate potential problems caused by ingesting, inhaling, applying topically any substance or product.

 

[Huntn]

So I take it there is a difference between “hand sanitizer” and “anti-bacteria” hand gel?

 

[A.Goldberg]

So I take it there is a difference between “hand sanitizer” and “anti-bacteria” hand gel?

The short answer- as long as the product is following current FDA regulations and isn't from the black market, it should either contain Isopropyl Alcohol, Ethyl Alcohol, or Benzalkonium Chloride.

The term "Hand Sanitizer" has no definition under FDA regulation. I assume you consider it to be alcohol-based? The only way to know is to look at the ingredient list.

------------
The Long answer- There has actually been ongoing discussion by the FDA over the approval and labeling of "Hand Sanitizers"

Technically, such products fall under the category of "Antiseptic Rubs" by the FDA - "products that are intended to be used when soap and water are not available and are left on and not rinsed off with water" (which include products like Purell, but also hand wipes). Theres a bit of backstory that might provide some context- but bear with me...

In 2016 the FDA brought up concerns about having data to back the safety and efficacy (including risks of longterm exposure, systemic absorption, and possiblity of microbial resistance) of various antiseptic ingredients in consumer "antiseptic rubs". They requested more data on such products... but never got any.

Last year (2019) the FDA banned a bunch of ingredients from such products- over a couple dozen because of insufficient data. Any products containing a banned substance(s) must go through a drug approval processes. Only 3 ingredients remain allowed for use in "antiseptic rubs", but their approval is under deferment until the FDA feels they have enough data to make a judgement. These include:
1) Isopropyl Alcohol
2) Ethyl Alcohol
3) Benzalkonium Chloride

There have been complaints about how "antiseptic rubs" is not the vernacular term, suggesting "Hand Sanitizer" is more appropriate. Further, such products are marketed as "Hand Sanitizer", "Antiseptic Hand Sanitizer", "Antimicrobial Hand Sanitizer", etc. This causes confusion because there is no specific definition for these terms.

Despite recognizing the problems, the FDA has twice refused (in 2016 and 2019) to address any labeling standards because technically the safety and efficacy of the ingredients have not been approved and they will not address the issue until they can approve the ingredients as GRAS/GRAE (generally regarded as sage/effective). Only when an ingredient is deemed GRAS/GRAE will they create labeling standards.

IMO this is a rather ridiculous position. I don't see how the "allowed" antiseptic ingredients official approval being under deferment inhibits their ability to set simple and reasonable labeling standards for such products. This is just another example of how the FDA is ridiculous- actively attempting to ensure product safety/effectiveness... but then ignoring obvious opportunities.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I am still amazed at the amount of men that don't wash their hands after using public restrooms. (Can't say for ladies as I don't use theirs!)