Resolved iMac G3 - Partitioning Hard Drive for OS 9 + OS X Dual Boot

[AppleAsker]

Hey y'all,

I'm trying to install Mac OS X 10.3 Panther on my Indigo iMac G3. The iMac has a 20 GB hard drive, and already has Mac OS 9.2.2 installed on it. I'm planning to do that by splitting the hard drive in half using Disk Utility on the Panther install disk, then installing OS X on the second partition while keeping the OS 9 partition intact. However, I've read on some places that doing this will wipe the entire hard drive, which in my opinion, is quite dumb. Does anyone know how I can go about this without dealing with the hassle of reinstalling Mac OS 9 and all my classic software?

Thanks,

-- AppleAsker

 

[Dronecatcher]

Hey y'all,

I'm trying to install Mac OS X 10.3 Panther on my Indigo iMac G3. The iMac has a 20 GB hard drive, and already has Mac OS 9.2.2 installed on it. I'm planning to do that by splitting the hard drive in half using Disk Utility on the Panther install disk, then installing OS X on the second partition while keeping the OS 9 partition intact. However, I've read on some places that doing this will wipe the entire hard drive, which in my opinion, is quite dumb. Does anyone know how I can go about this without dealing with the hassle of reinstalling Mac OS 9 and all my classic software?

Thanks,

-- AppleAsker

Just install 10.3 as an upgrade - your OS9 and files will be retained and you can boot into either OS via the Startup Disk preference.

 

[eyoungren]

Just install 10.3 as an upgrade - your OS9 and files will be retained and you can boot into either OS via the Startup Disk preference.

Doesn't OS X on these Macs require being installed within the first 6GB of the drive though?

OP, as to your question. OS X 10.5 Leopard is the first version of OS X that has non-destructive partitioning.

 

[AppleAsker]

Just install 10.3 as an upgrade - your OS9 and files will be retained and you can boot into either OS via the Startup Disk preference.

Does this mean installing OS X Panther on the same partition won't delete my OS 9 System Folder and classic apps? I thought they had to be installed on different partitions. I might try this out.

Doesn't OS X on these Macs require being installed within the first 6GB of the drive though?

OP, as to your question. OS X 10.5 Leopard is the first version of OS X that has non-destructive partitioning.

The iMac G3 can't run Leopard though, since the highest supported OS on these machines is 10.4.11. So I think partitioning the hard drive isn't really an option...

 

[Dronecatcher]

Doesn't OS X on these Macs require being installed within the first 6GB of the drive though?

I hadn't heard of that, so I did a little look and found this:

"One issue the tray-loading iMacs, beige G3 Power Macs, WallStreet PowerBooks, and Clamshell iBooks share is a transitional hardware architecture that runs into problems with IDE/Ultra ATA drives on the built-in drive bus under Mac OS 9 and OS X. If the drive is larger than 8 GB and not partitioned, you may never be able to boot into OS X and may also have problems with the classic Mac OS. If the drive is partitioned and the first partition is bigger than 8 GB, same deal.

Mac OS X must be installed on an IDE drive smaller than 8 GB or on the first partition of an IDE drive larger than 8 GB - and that partition must be smaller than 8 GB. (Mac OS 9 needn't be on the first partition, but it must be within the first 8 GB of drive space.) Because a gigabyte is sometimes one billion bytes and sometimes 2^30 bytes (that's 1,073,741,824 for the binary challenged), we've recommended that the partition be no larger than 7.45 GB to play it safe. Bill has found that our number is too high: Partitioning at 7.45 GB or even 7.38 GB results in unbootable OS X installations. I've found the same thing when working with a Beige G3. (This applies only to IDE/Ultra ATA drives on the built-in bus. It's not an issue for SCSI drives or IDE/Ultra ATA drives on a PCI controller card - neither of which is an option for the iMac.)"

OP - is yours a tray loader?
Maybe do a little research and back up your files anyway.

 

[eyoungren]

The iMac G3 can't run Leopard though, since the highest supported OS on these machines is 10.4.11. So I think partitioning the hard drive isn't really an option...

Right. You'll have to find another way if you want to repartition it.

Fortunately, with OS 9 all that's necessary is to drag all the folders off somewhere and then drag them back when you're done. Unlike OS X where you'd need to clone the drive or use Time Machine (again, Leopard only).
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I hadn't heard of that, so I did a little look and found this:

"One issue the tray-loading iMacs, beige G3 Power Macs, WallStreet PowerBooks, and Clamshell iBooks share is a transitional hardware architecture that runs into problems with IDE/Ultra ATA drives on the built-in drive bus under Mac OS 9 and OS X. If the drive is larger than 8 GB and not partitioned, you may never be able to boot into OS X and may also have problems with the classic Mac OS. If the drive is partitioned and the first partition is bigger than 8 GB, same deal.

Mac OS X must be installed on an IDE drive smaller than 8 GB or on the first partition of an IDE drive larger than 8 GB - and that partition must be smaller than 8 GB. (Mac OS 9 needn't be on the first partition, but it must be within the first 8 GB of drive space.) Because a gigabyte is sometimes one billion bytes and sometimes 2^30 bytes (that's 1,073,741,824 for the binary challenged), we've recommended that the partition be no larger than 7.45 GB to play it safe. Bill has found that our number is too high: Partitioning at 7.45 GB or even 7.38 GB results in unbootable OS X installations. I've found the same thing when working with a Beige G3. (This applies only to IDE/Ultra ATA drives on the built-in bus. It's not an issue for SCSI drives or IDE/Ultra ATA drives on a PCI controller card - neither of which is an option for the iMac.)"

OP - is yours a tray loader?
Maybe do a little research and back up your files anyway.

Yeah, I have a tray loader and this was one of the issues I walked into. At the time I used my Quicksilver to format one partifion as 6GB and installed Tiger on that partition. The Mac had no issues booting up OS X after that.

 

[DeltaMac]

The indigo iMac would be one of the second generation iMacs, what I call a slot-loading model. They don't have a boot partition size limit that the original iMacs have (which needed OS X installed on a partition on the first 8GB of the drive.

Think about this: When Macs started to ship with OS X, OS 9 was still there, with OS X on only one partition. You can choose either system to boot, holding X for OS X, or holding 9 for, well, OS 9 boot.

bottom line - you don't need to partition when you already have OS 9, and you want to install Panther. Both co-exist very nicely on the same partition.

 

[Dronecatcher]

holding 9 for, well, OS 9 boot.

Hey - i didn't know that one

 

[LightBulbFun]

Figured id clear some stuff up here as theres evidently some confusion

you can install OS X on the HDD that has OS9 on it without formatting the HDD and OS X and OS 9 will coexist on the same drive/partition, you can chose which one to boot into by using the startup disk in Mac OS 9s drop down apple menu or Mac OS Xs system preferences

OS X Tiger is the version of OS X that introduced Live partitioning/non destructive partitioning (IIRC it first showed up in one of the later 10.4.x updates its not there only early versions of tiger) sadly if your drive has OS9 drivers installed (ie if you have Mac OS 9 running and booting into it) you cant live/non-destructively partition the drive in any version of OS X

on that note, I recommend running tiger over panther, you dont lose any speed and tiger has much better app support and features


now on the 8GB limit, that does not apply to any slot loading iMacs, it also does not apply to any iBook, even the non FW iBook is free from this limit, remember the iBook Clamshell was actually The first uninorth Mac and uses the keylargo ATA controller, so it does not have any issues, that plague earlier macs with the Heathrow ATA controller the only HDD limit such machines (iBook clamshell slot loading iMac) have is the 128GB LBA one

BTW do make sure you firmware is fully updated on the iMac

also For the record with a "little" bit of hardware modding you can happily run Leopard on an iMac G3 https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...2-putting-the-power-into-flowerpower.2040272/

 

[AppleAsker]

Well, I think I can finally say mission accomplished!
I used my original Mac OS X Panther install discs and I've managed to install OS X alongside OS 9 without any problem.
(I would've installed Tiger instead, but I didn't have the original discs nor could I find the CD images online, so I just used the Panther discs I already had from another Mac.)

Here are some pics:

 

[Dronecatcher]

Well, I think I can finally say mission accomplished!

Sits well with the lava lamp...how the future used to look....