iPhone VS Palm Pre

[aristobrat]

Network.

I tried looking over at the Sprint forums on HowardForums.com (which is the MacRumors of the wireless community) and didn't see anything that said Sprint was now supporting simultaneous voice + data, even though their EVDO-A network theoretically supports it.

 

[slapppy]

Network.

I tried looking over at the Sprint forums on HowardForums.com (which is the MacRumors of the wireless community) and didn't see anything that said Sprint was now supporting simultaneous voice + data, even though their EVDO-A network theoretically supports it.

Perhaps it will be enabled before launch? Otherwise this is a big letdown for Pre users.

 

[paulsalter]

Network.

I tried looking over at the Sprint forums on HowardForums.com (which is the MacRumors of the wireless community) and didn't see anything that said Sprint was now supporting simultaneous voice + data, even though their EVDO-A network theoretically supports it.

Cheers (not to up to date on US networks)

To be fair then its not really a failing on the phone, more of a failing of palm by going with a network that cant utilise it fully

 

[aristobrat]

Perhaps it will be enabled before launch? Otherwise this is a big letdown for Pre users.

Don't know, and maybe. I know on my iPhone 3G, I've only used simultaneous voice + data only like 5 times in the last year. Definitely isn't a deal breaker for me, but I understand that for some, it might be.

 

[Goona]

Don't know, and maybe. I know on my iPhone 3G, I've only used simultaneous voice + data only like 5 times in the last year. Definitely isn't a deal breaker for me, but I understand that for some, it might be.

It's a problem with CDMA phones, the Blackberry Storm has the same problem.

 

[skwoytek]

Don't know, and maybe. I know on my iPhone 3G, I've only used simultaneous voice + data only like 5 times in the last year. Definitely isn't a deal breaker for me, but I understand that for some, it might be.

The deal breaker depends on the following for me...

Perhaps on Sprint, the Pre will still receive phone calls while using data, any word on that?

In my experience with the original iPhone, if you are using data which includes streaming music, Youtube or even loading a large email attachment at the moment a phone call comes in, the caller goes to voice mail. Heck, even if your phone is doing it's hourly email pull at the moment a phone call is received, they're sent to voice mail.

 

[brent0saurus]

Reading some of the threads on this forum, I'd have thought the reverse was also true!

I'm glad i wasn't the first one to have to point this out. MANY people on this thread have gotten super defensive and almost rude in some cases just because i made a post about a phone that might be an iphone competitor.
and then when i make the point that it's just speculation and i'm not saying it actually IS better, they say it's pointless to speculate, when that's what macrumors is about; SPECULATION!

fanboys are annoying no matter what company they're a fan of.

 

[mavis]

The deal breaker depends on the following for me...

Perhaps on Sprint, the Pre will still receive phone calls while using data, any word on that?

In my experience with the original iPhone, if you are using data which includes streaming music, Youtube or even loading a large email attachment at the moment a phone call comes in, the caller goes to voice mail. Heck, even if your phone is doing it's hourly email pull at the moment a phone call is received, they're sent to voice mail.

I've never experienced that here in Japan with my iPhone 3G.

 

[skwoytek]

I've never experienced that here in Japan with my iPhone 3G.

Original iPhone only (not 3G).

The 3G network allows simultaneous voice and data. The original iPhone's EDGE only, does not. However, iPhone 3G users can still emulate this by turning off 3G and Wifi. I just tested several times before I wrote that post.

Turn off 3G (make sure you're not to WiFi either) and then start a long youtube video, while it's still accessing data have someone call in - you won't get the call, they'll go to voicemail.

Now turn on 3G and repeat, the call will come in even though you're accessing data just as before.

 

[aristobrat]

It's a problem with CDMA phones, the Blackberry Storm has the same problem.

It's definitely not with all CDMA phones/networks. I have had several BlackBerrys on Verizon that have allowed me to tether and do voice at the same time.

 

[ruinfx]

It's definitely not with all CDMA phones/networks. I have had several BlackBerrys on Verizon that have allowed me to tether and do voice at the same time.

from what ive read, the only way EVDO rev A can do simultaneous voice and data is by using voip. so its technically data and data. however this functionality can only be used if the carrier enables it and i dont think sprint currently does.

 

[skubish]

I have just learned that you can't use data and voice at the same time on Sprint. That pretty much makes the Pre a fail right now. Its like going back to the original iPhone on EDGE.

 

[kdarling]

I have just learned that you can't use data and voice at the same time on Sprint. That pretty much makes the Pre a fail right now. Its like going back to the original iPhone on EDGE.

So... you're saying that the original iPhone was a fail ?

Let's see... original iPhone: no 3G, no GPS, no third party native apps... from a company whose previous smartphone attempt had not done so well... yep, no way anyone would be crazy enough to buy one.

.

 

[kas23]

So... you're saying that the original iPhone was a fail ?

Let's see... original iPhone: no 3G, no GPS, no third party native apps... from a company whose previous smartphone attempt had not done so well... yep, no way anyone would be crazy enough to buy one.

.

Duh?

iPhone (at any config)=God's (Job's) Gift to the masses

all other phones=bad imitations.

Get with the program.

 

[brent0saurus]

Here's an interesting article comparing the pricing plans of the iphone, blackberry and pre.
If you don't feel like clicking the link, you save $1200 with the pre over 2 years.

 

[aristobrat]

If you don't feel like clicking the link, you save $1200 with the pre over 2 years.

Technically, that's nothing to do with the Pre.

Sprint has had those "Simply Everything" plans (for their smartphones) for over a year now. They're great values, although the $1200 savings is based on the most expensive plan. If you pick a plan that's cheaper monthly, you still save, just not $1200 over 24 months.

Sprint's real challenge (IMO) is getting the people on those special SERO plans (where they get minutes, data, and text for $30/month) to upgrade to a plan that isn't killing their ARPU. Sprint is very specific that you can not buy a Pre with a SERO plan (and even if you upgrade your plan for the Pre, and return the Pre, you can't go back to your old SERO plan).

IMO, AT&T's "consideration" of a cheaper iPhone plan is a response to Sprint's cheaper "Simply Everything" plans. A person on a budget may chose the Pre (or any Sprint smartphone) over the iPhone if it saves them $30/month.

 

[brent0saurus]

Technically, that's nothing to do with the Pre.

Sprint has had those "Simply Everything" plans (for their smartphones) for over a year now. They're great values, although the $1200 savings is based on the most expensive plan. If you pick a plan that's cheaper monthly, you still save, just not $1200 over 24 months.

Sprint's real challenge (IMO) is getting the people on those special SERO plans (where they get minutes, data, and text for $30/month) to upgrade to a plan that isn't killing their ARPU. Sprint is very specific that you can not buy a Pre with a SERO plan (and even if you upgrade your plan for the Pre, and return the Pre, you can't go back to your old SERO plan).

IMO, AT&T's "consideration" of a cheaper iPhone plan is a response to Sprint's cheaper "Simply Everything" plans. A person on a budget may chose the Pre (or any Sprint smartphone) over the iPhone if it saves them $30/month.

could you explain this further? i don't know what sero or arpu means... forgive my ignorance

 

[Goona]

So... you're saying that the original iPhone was a fail ?

Let's see... original iPhone: no 3G, no GPS, no third party native apps... from a company whose previous smartphone attempt had not done so well... yep, no way anyone would be crazy enough to buy one.

.

Well its a fail to him because thats whats important to him.

 

[aristobrat]

could you explain this further? i don't know what sero or arpu means... forgive my ignorance

No worries.

SERO (Sprint Employee Referral Offer)

1. Sprint Employee Referral Offer 500 (minutes) for $30.00 per month
2. Sprint Employee Referral Offer 1250 (minutes) for $49.99 per month
3. Sprint Employee Referral Offer 2500 (minutes) for $99.99 per month

It will show up on your bill as a Fair and Flexible plan, and not as a SERO plan. For a view of what it would look like on your bill see section: 1:33

What is included with the SERO plan?

1. Unlimited Sprint Vision or Power Vision (Vision for Vision phones, Power Vision for Power Vision phones)
2. Unlimited Mobile to Mobile (In network only, Sprint to Sprint, Sprint to Nextel, Nextel to Sprint, Nextel to Nextel)
3. Unlimited Sprint Picture Mail
4. Unlimited Roaming
5. Unlimited Nights & Weekends (either 6 or 7 PM, depending on when you started contract)
6. Nationwide Long Distance
7. Crystal Clear Calls
8. Voice Mail
9. Caller ID
10. Call Waiting
11. Numeric Paging
12. Three-Way Calling
13. Ready Link
14. Unlimited SMS

To get a SERO plan, you were supposed to have a real Sprint employee refer you, but people found out how to get around that limitation real quick, so pretty much anyone who's heard about them could get one.

ARPU = average revenue per unit (which in the wireless world = a line of service) It's like the average check in a restaurant. The higher it is, the more money the company makes. SERO plans kill Sprint's ARPU. They're essentially charging $30 for a plan that other carriers charge $70-$90 for.

 

[iWork]

Some Clarification...

Sprint (and Verizon) are CDMA carriers.

Sprint and Verizon CDMA networks currently segregate voice and data channels. Voice transfers over the 1xRTT channels, whereas data transfers over the EVDO (Rev. 0 and A) channels. This measure was taken for the purpose of load-balancing. Given the finite amount of spectrum, it is logical to operate voice over a separate channel for the purpose of reliability and consistency.

This is one of the reasons AT&T has an inordinate amount of dropped calls. This is why AT&T is scrambling to overlay additional spectrum (850MHz). AT&T is also in the process implementing a load-balancing system (N-SET) with the intention of decreasing dropped calls and slow data sessions.

It is theoretically possible for Sprint (and Palm, via firmware) to enable simultaneous data and voice. It may come later this year, assuming the Pre takes off. Or it may not come at all.

Simultaneous data and voice is currently not possible over cellular. Simultaneous voice (over cellular) and data (over Pre's WiFi) is possible.

With Sprint's current configuration, if a user is engaged in cellular data transfer and a call comes in and is accepted, the data session is paused. After the call is ended or rejected, the data session is resumed. A preference in current Sprint smartphones allows the data session to remain uninterrupted and for incoming calls to route straight to voicemail. If a user is conducting a data session over WiFi, a call can be placed normally.

Based on videos of the Pre emulator, a user can interact with the Pre and its applications during a call (HTML5 aids).

It's a bummer, but recall that the iPhone (EDGE) did not allow simultaneous data and voice.

I believe this is a minor issue, at best.

 

[brent0saurus]

Sprint (and Verizon) are CDMA carriers.

Sprint and Verizon CDMA networks currently segregate voice and data channels. Voice transfers over the 1xRTT channels, whereas data transfers over the EVDO (Rev. 0 and A) channels. This measure was taken for the purpose of load-balancing. Given the finite amount of spectrum, it is logical to operate voice over a separate channel for the purpose of reliability and consistency.

This is one of the reasons AT&T has an inordinate amount of dropped calls. This is why AT&T is scrambling to overlay additional spectrum (850MHz). AT&T is also in the process implementing a load-balancing system (N-SET) with the intention of decreasing dropped calls and slow data sessions.

It is theoretically possible for Sprint (and Palm, via firmware) to enable simultaneous data and voice. It may come later this year, assuming the Pre takes off. Or it may not come at all.

Simultaneous data and voice is currently not possible over cellular. Simultaneous voice (over cellular) and data (over Pre's WiFi) is possible.

With Sprint's current configuration, if a user is engaged in cellular data transfer and a call comes in and is accepted, the data session is paused. After the call is ended or rejected, the data session is resumed. A preference in current Sprint smartphones allows the data session to remain uninterrupted and for incoming calls to route straight to voicemail. If a user is conducting a data session over WiFi, a call can be placed normally.

Based on videos of the Pre emulator, a user can interact with the Pre and its applications during a call (HTML5 aids).

It's a bummer, but recall that the iPhone (EDGE) did not allow simultaneous data and voice.

I believe this is a minor issue, at best.

wow. thank you SO much for clearing this up. many people here were saying that with sprint, if the pre was retreiving mail and at the same time someone called, it would just ignore the call and you would never know you got it.
after hearing this i wondered why they wouldn't just pause the data transfer and accept the call. glad to hear it actually does do this.

thanks again!

 

[brent0saurus]

No worries.


To get a SERO plan, you were supposed to have a real Sprint employee refer you, but people found out how to get around that limitation real quick, so pretty much anyone who's heard about them could get one.

ARPU = average revenue per unit (which in the wireless world = a line of service) It's like the average check in a restaurant. The higher it is, the more money the company makes. SERO plans kill Sprint's ARPU. They're essentially charging $30 for a plan that other carriers charge $70-$90 for.

wow that's AMAZING. so you can't get this with the pre, though? i guess it's too good to be true
sprint seems like a very reasonably priced carrier. i guess the only issue is supposedly their coverage isn't very good.

 

[skwoytek]

I believe this is a minor issue, at best.

I use quite a bit of data and have loads of incoming emails, with the original iPhone I had fetch on 15 minutes and the fetch took a little while given that it was EDGE. I missed dozens and possibly hundreds of calls before the 3G was released because voice and data could not function at the same time.

I'd say the Pre is more business and less consumer than the iPhone, therefore there will probably be more people concerned with receiving their phone calls. Take into account the Pre's Pandora App and anyone streaming Pandora now misses every incoming call.

Depending on what market the Pre appeals to the most (I think it's targeted at the casual business user) this is a minor issue, at least.

 

[skwoytek]

i guess the only issue is supposedly their coverage isn't very good.

My employer has us on Sprint here in San Diego. I get frequent no signal and/or network errors while placing calls. When it's a network error it's always a Verizon recording that I hear because I'm roaming on their network - I see my roaming indicator quite often. Before Sprint we were on Verizon, the number of network errors and no signal issues when placing calls was less than a quarter of what it is now. In all fairness, I work all over San Diego and there are a lot of hills and canyons. But...

My iPhone almost always works where my Sprint phone doesn't. Sprint is last on my list for coverage and service quality...

 

[iWork]

Bad example.

The Pandora app will pause when a call comes in. Why anybody would want simultaneous music during a call is a mystery.

Re-read my post. Voice will prioritize, thus no missed calls. Why is this so difficult to understand?

As for you anecdote, I can believe it. But, my experience is the opposite of yours in NYC. Sprint >> AT&T in NYC. There is no definitive best carrier, even within a general area.