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Microsoft Says 'Disappointment' of New MacBook Pro Has More People Switching to Surface Than Ever Before
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But when you compare $ to $, the MBP non tb is only $150 more (comparing base 256 MBPnt to 256 Air w/ upgraded processor) and with that you get a retina screen, improved form factor, USB-C (not necessarily a pro for some), faster RAM, better graphics processor, and a machine for the future not one still stuck in 2010.
The MBP sounds like a bargain by comparison. (I LOVED the THREE Airs I own/ed).
Yes, the Air will kill it in battery life, but I suspect that the base MBP would last pretty much all day running the same apps as the Air. Both would suffer under load and the Pro would likely beat the Air in battery life running heavy duty apps w/ a slightly bigger battery. Smaller size and same weight. Winner MBP.
And then there's the lack of a pro workstation.
The current Mac pro was launched 3yrs ago, which is right around the time I tend to refresh. Refresh to what? refresh to more 2013 gear?
So Apple finally gets to the point where they're ubiquitous, and widely accepted in the Enterprise and by professionals in just about every discipline. At which point Apple just up and decides to start phoning it in, concentrating their creative juices on making stuff that's thinner and has fewer ports.
I liked them better when they were an oddball platform.
The current Mac pro was launched 3yrs ago, which is right around the time I tend to refresh. Refresh to what? refresh to more 2013 gear?
So Apple finally gets to the point where they're ubiquitous, and widely accepted in the Enterprise and by professionals in just about every discipline. At which point Apple just up and decides to start phoning it in, concentrating their creative juices on making stuff that's thinner and has fewer ports.
I liked them better when they were an oddball platform.
Surface Book - 16GB RAM max, dual core i7, retina touch screen, SSDs, the pen thing that isn't too bad, Windows 10, NO TB3.
MacBook Pro (since ages ago) - 16GB RAM max, up to quad core i7, retina screen, SSDs, macOS. 2016, add TB3 and take away other ports and anger people with the dongle thing.
But in two years, all your peripherals will be on USB-C and you won't care.
Price for a dual core Surface is awfully close to the 15" rMBP, with similar specs but 2 more cores on the Mac.
Overall, I still take the Mac.
Especially because Windows is still a bit sad no matter how hard they try. Try running Microsoft's RDP client on a HiDPI screen. HA. fail.
MacBook Pro (since ages ago) - 16GB RAM max, up to quad core i7, retina screen, SSDs, macOS. 2016, add TB3 and take away other ports and anger people with the dongle thing.
But in two years, all your peripherals will be on USB-C and you won't care.Price for a dual core Surface is awfully close to the 15" rMBP, with similar specs but 2 more cores on the Mac.
Overall, I still take the Mac.
Especially because Windows is still a bit sad no matter how hard they try. Try running Microsoft's RDP client on a HiDPI screen. HA. fail.
And I'm sure you have a very different use case than I do. Personally I find Win 10 to be full of legacy code paired with bone-headed compromises that duplicate settings, obfuscate functionality, and omit useful features that used to be there.
Though it's definitely more stable than any previous Windows, no argument there. As I said, it's the best Windows has ever been. But for me that's still not great. I'm with you on Linux, too, I could switch from macOS to Linux without too much hassle or frustration. So combine these 2 things and you'll get my point: Having a Mac with macOS and/or Linux on it... See where I'm going with this?
My point was that it's all wrapped up in personal use case and you can't really sum that up in a brief, pithy quote. I'm not saying Windows doesn't work better for some folks. I'm just encouraging discussion as opposed to broad dismissal.
Valid (but minor) complaints:
-Loss of MagSafe
This does suck, but since they replaced it with a standard port instead of proprietary I'm neutral on it. I understand why many people aren't happy about it though.
-Loss of SD Card slot
This also is disappointing, but FAR from a deal breaker for me. I just use the card reader in my Ultrasharp or can just use an adapter or USB cable direct from the camera on the road.
-Loss of HDMI
Unfortunate... but an HDMI dongle is relatively cheap and not difficult to keep in my backpack. I almost never used the HDMI port on my previous (work owned) MBP. Always connected displays via mDP. But I do understand why people are disappointed with this change.
-Loss of replaceable SSD, user or otherwise
How many people replaced the SSD in their previous retina MBP? Yeah you COULD... but they were proprietary and available from all of one company. I'd like to see Apple switch over to NVMe M.2 so they could be replaced if someone wanted... but I'm perfectly fine buying a drive in the capacity that will last me the life of the machine. These aren't slow prone to failure spinning rust drives anymore. For all the clamoring for 32/64GB of RAM do these people intend to cheap out and skip buying a suitable size drive?
Valid as part of a transition but bound to happen:
-Loss of USB type A
Silly
-Loss of glowing Apple logo (let's face it, aesthetics matter to Apple fans)
I was actually HAPPY this one was gone... so cheesy... and I've been buying Macs (not exclusively) since the mid 90s.
-Loss of startup chime (sentimental, I know, but still)
It's more or less disabled, you can easily turn it back on.
HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE
-(Relatively) intrusive trackpad
Almost all reviews of the trackpad that I've seen has been positive. Palm rejection is very good, I've loved having all the additional space.
-(Relatively) High cost (particularly given the necessary investment in new adapters)
The cost is high because it's a first revision after a major design change. Same thing happened in 2012. Prices come down. Were you not buying adapters for your previous retina MBPs? Replacing them sucks... but they were never particularly expensive unless you felt you needed to buy the Apple branded ones or a ton of them.
-Controversial (at best) keyboard
I'm not sure I'd say at best... I, and most people, were skeptical based on the one in the Macbook. Once people actually get their hands on them and use them I'd say the reception has been neutral to positive from what I've seen. At this point I find I like it at least as much as the old Macbook Pro keyboards and I HATED the Macbook one (mushy), but it's not a big selling point either way for me as nothing compares to a good mechanical keyboard.
Honestly, if I was to make any changes personally on the new MBP... it'd be to include one USB-A port, an SDCard slot and maybe HDMI. I think Apple would have saved themselves a lot of grief by doing so as a transitionary gesture. Even including a USB-C to A adapter in box would have helped. The screen is better, the CPUs and GPUs are incremental improvements (which is about all you get from Intel these days), and I've been looking forward to TB3/USB-C.
Your answer is not far from what I expected. The machine works for you. That's good, again, for you.
The only issue I have is that these are being labeled silly and/or minor without the caveat: from your perspective.
So if, say, I'm a photographer who uses that SD slot daily, that is far from a minor quibble. Also, if I'm a pro with lots of read/write operations on my SSD, the ability to replace it (or upgrade it) is not really a minor quibble either. It's a frustration. There are many people that (used to) buy MBP for their hardware features along with the OS. Apple's removal of beloved-because-they're-useful hardware features and replacing them with something (arguably) inferior is, again, a frustration.
Thus, the truth of my point is that all this is highly subjective, as you state. The opinion on the MBP is very much depending on how injurious the changes are for an individual's workflow. Clearly, these are all minor for you. What is factual is that this new MBP is far more polarizing than the one before. And Apple already has and will continue to lose users over this.
Whether this is significantly impactful (for Apple) or not remains to be seen.
Thus a minor or silly complaint from your perspective can be a deal-breaker from mine.
Both points of view are valid, however.
I'm not saying any viewpoint is invalid per se. Yes, the machine works for me... if the machine didn't work for me I'd just buy something else. Not demand Apple change the machine because I'm a Pro and it's not what I want.
The lack of an SD card slot is just a change of workflow. Every remotely pro camera I've ever seen can, itself, be used as a card reader to transfer images. Additionally there are very compact card readers that pop directly onto the machine via USB-C. Is this enough for you to completely decry the machine? I guess it is for some here.
And while I think it would be nice if the SSD was replaceable, I'm not really buying that you're going to realistically wear down the write cycles on the drive in it's life cycle for such a demanding user. Even tests on drives a few years ago onearlier generation SSDs were passing the 2PB mark without failing. Thats almost 300GB of writes EVERY DAY for 10 years. Or (in a more likely lifespan) 550GB / day every day for 5 years.
And again I ask, how many people upgraded the SSDs on the previous Retina Macbook Pros? I'd bet that number is VERY small... The option is great, but if basically nobody does it, what's it matter?
The broader point is if it doesn't work for you... don't buy it. Buy something else that does. But why sit here and belittle those it does work for? Why all the entitled rants about how Apple's not making this for "Pros" because it doesn't fit your specific needs? I've browsed Macrumors for years but (apparently) didn't bother making an account or viewing the comments until recently. I came expecting more insightful information and reasonable discussion. I imagine you get how well that's gone.
Well, that is an opinion too and quite an ignorant one.
1) If you are doing web dev you are most probably using VSCode, Atom, Sublime Text, WebStorm, etc. All of which are cross platform tools from day one.
2) If you are doing front end, and unless you've been living in a cave for the past 5 years, then you are most probably using NPM and Node. Guess what? Node was designed for Linux first.
3) You can be up and running in Linux in no time too. Probably even faster than with Mac since you already have APT or Yum. No need to install Homebrew.
4) Maybe you also missed that there's bash on Windows 10 now running natively (no virtualisation). Pure Ubuntu. Exactly the same bash you find on your servers, unlike what's running on macOS. With APT and all.
5) MAMP was designed for macOS and was later ported to Windows
I use macOS, but Linux is just as good (if not better) for web dev. Windows was behind but now with real bash choosing an OS for web dev is a matter of taste. None is objectively better.
[doublepost=1481665459][/doublepost]
Nope. Windows 10 has had bash for a few months now. It's running Ubuntu natively. You can even run some Linux GUI software.
http://www.howtogeek.com/249966/how-to-install-and-use-the-linux-bash-shell-on-windows-10/
http://www.howtogeek.com/261575/how...top-applications-from-windows-10s-bash-shell/
Yes, it's possible to vote with your money and not buy something or buy something else. If this was Dell or Asus, this wouldn't be a problem, but if you are invested in MacOs software it's not super easy to just go buy something else. Unless we are talking about building Hackintoshes?
Hmm. I don't think I've fallen into the trap of belittling anyone for their choices in regards to this machine.
On the contrary, I've been trying to get all those angry about us dissenters to understand (unsuccessfully) that it's not "whining" or merely "complaining." This are valid points being brought up by long-time Apple users that are now left in the cold by Apple's seemingly non-sensical (to us at least) design choices.
FWIW, I stopped buying Apple products in 2011 because of this, and it has just been getting worse and worse. The 2012 retina MBP was a deal-breaker for me. I have a 2011 17" and a 2012 15" with 2 1TB drives in RAID 0, and connectivity galore. I couldn't replace it with anything Apple made since then. Now they release this machine, but in order for me to have what I can even begin to use I just cannot afford it. Between the high cost, the amounts of dongles and adapters necessary (and their added cost), and the fact that I just WILL NOT buy any real computer that has a soldered drive (outside of a tablet), Apple just styled itself out of my use-case.
Even if I could afford it, though, I just feel there are more flexible options out there that even long-time Mac users in my position can consider. This is a time where users like me have to trade something off no matter what, so I'd rather trade off the limitations in the MBP for a Razer Blade Pro or something like it. It's expensive, but I feel it'd be a better investment hardware wise. From what I seen in these forums, people are actually leaving, considering it (like me), or buying older hardware to compensate. In all the time I've been a member, I've NEVER seen it like this. It is for a REASON.
All that said, the MBP (recent troubles aside) is still the best ultrabook in the market. I just want more than that, and Apple just keeps killing the products that made me like them and replaced them with nothing.
the surface should have been the new iMac, and the Skull Canyon, HP Z2 and Lenovo ThinkCentre should have been the new Mac mini
Apple has been sleeping for years and playing with emojis
Apple has been sleeping for years and playing with emojis
I don't think that period is analogous to this one. I'd say it's quite the opposite really. In the 90's Apple had too many options for their computers to the point that it was like trying to evaluate health insurance plans when you wanted to buy a new Mac. You had all sorts of models that hard to tell from each other. They were heading the opposite direction of their simplicity mantra of today.
Don't call all of us tbMBP buyers fanboys. A lot of us are pros who have held off getting a new machine for a while and are at the point we really need an upgrade. Also, I'd suspect that more than a few of us are buying just so we can have a laptop that supports a 5K screen. That's actually the reason why I've been holding out. Portability plus a 5K screen is going to take a huge chunk out of my bank account. Being able to see and read better = better productivity so I'm willing to pay it, but I'm not happy to pay it because I'm paying a huge premium for the machine I don't want because I don't have the build I need available.
I've got serious reservations about the new MBP and I did start doing mental exercises of how much pain it would be to switch to Windows and if I don't see a trend where I'll have a better buying experience by the next time I need a new machine, I'm going to start preparing to switch to Windows a year ahead so I can comfortably exit the ecosystem.
I believe this article. The surface book everything I want except the OS
Either the disappointment has gone that low....or people are sincerely not thinking through their emotions.
You've leaving the MacBook Pro for the Surface?
That's like trading in your BMW 7 series for a Chevrolet Silverado just because your BMW can't tow a boat and suddenly you need to tow.
You've leaving the MacBook Pro for the Surface?
That's like trading in your BMW 7 series for a Chevrolet Silverado just because your BMW can't tow a boat and suddenly you need to tow.
I was over the moon when my house got burgled a couple of years ago. The thief only had time to make off with my brand new Dell laptop before he/she got disturbed and after the insurance company told me I could have any laptop to the same value.
I hated that laptop, worst thing I had ever bought, apparently Dell don't consider it being sh*t as a good enough reason to return it.
My point is just that media standards for cameras have diversified so picking one, and the one that's on its way out, at this point is rather arbitrary. It may be useful for some people, but it wouldn't be useful for me, for example.
I'm glad Apple didn't include the SD slot-- it would use real estate for something I'd never need.
It's telling that the top end cameras from both manufacturers (D4, D5, 1D X, 1D X Mark II) have not supported SD for a few generations, if ever.
I'm glad Apple didn't include the SD slot-- it would use real estate for something I'd never need.
All of those use another standard for primary storage, and SD as secondary. CF, CFast and XQD are all significantly faster and more reliable than SD so you'll get more frames before you fill your buffer, and more confidence you'll still have your images at the end of the day.
Camera makers may be moving away from CF, but they aren't going toward SD. They're going to CFast and XQD at the high end (I really wish Nikon and Canon could agree on one) and microSD on the consumer end.
It's telling that the top end cameras from both manufacturers (D4, D5, 1D X, 1D X Mark II) have not supported SD for a few generations, if ever.
I'm a bit curious as well, but it doesn't really say what these people were using their old Macbooks for. It's also possible that there are other people who buy other PC brands than these Microsoft Surface books, assuming they were "disappointed" in the Macbook pro.
I think you seriously did a logic round about here...
That's nearly exactly the problem
Apple used to provide a "Silverado" and the "BMW"
Now they're only offering a "BMW" and a "BMW Pro"
And sometimes, and some people, really need that truck. Not the BMW.
All you people eating up MS marketing BS is hilarious. Maybe they did set a record... so what? They've sold like 4 surface books. It's not hard to beat their old record.
You say 'if it doesnt work for you, buy something else.'
But thats just it ... Apple no longer provides other options besides machines compromised for thinness.
They used to. So now we face the painful (and expensiive) transition to windows if we 'want something else'.
Just sad, since for as long as I've been alive (56 years) this is the first time I felt completely backed into a corner like this by Apples product line.
Used paragon for 10 years never had an issue on dozens of machines. It's rock solid - They wouldn't have a business otherwise.
Well iMacs tend to use the latest kit at launch (sometimes not high end tho)... but then don't get updated fast enough for some people. But that's the point again. 95% of people don't remotely use the complete power of a computer now... Games being the exception I suppose. Apple play the performance vs power draw game where as some just throw every latest bit of kit in to make a beast with no battery life and burns out after a year or 2. Alienware / razor I am looking at you
The surface studio was actually designed quite a while back and they refined based on that. They admitted they'd rather have got 1070/80 in there but has to lock quite a long time ago.
It's not awful by any means. Lovely bit of kit. Think they missed a trick by not having the whole base unit removable so you could upgrade the whole thing in a few years bar the screen say for 2000 dollars.
Wacom cintiqs are screens you draw on.
Ha! Seems like you are talking abut the iPad and MacBook lineup. Apples stores are stocking 67! different iPads at the moment! Ok forget the colour options, still 21 different iPads. Wtf? And the laptops? MacBook, MacBook Air (what is the difference anyway), MacBook Pro without Emojibar MacBook pro with Emojibar... What is this simplicity you are talking about?