I think the point he's making is that lots of people cheat without their partners ever knowing.
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My girlfriend, a hotel room, and a 30 year old
- Thread starter haiggy
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I think the point he's making is that lots of people cheat without their partners ever knowing.
Excuse me? Must not have turned on the emo 14 year old wishy washy white-knight speak. I very clearly stated that my girlfriend is not my property and does not need my permission to "hang out" with whomever she pleases. She's her own human being, she makes her own decisions, and the only thing she gets from me about it is my admiration and respect.
As far as "wanting ass" is concerned, sure seems like the only one worried about who's getting ass is the OP, namely the ass of the girl he neither communicates with nor trusts or maybe you with all the other-guy ass you've gotten in your proud history? The only ass I worry about is my own, and I do my deadlifts 2X a week at the gym so I assure you it's firm.
You're the one who said you own her did you not?
Do you tan and laundry too after you hit up the gym?
It happens. Twice for me. Not really proud of it, but it really gives you a) an appreciation for someone who is truly honest b) a serious dose of reality as far as knowing first hand how much can happen without someone knowing.
I would have hung up, dumped the broad and deleted her number out of my iPhone. Any girl that acts like that in a relationship has already cheated on you, plenty of other girls out there that want attention.
Look, Liquorpuki, I posted in my first reply specifically that I don't own her (or for that matter anyone). What I did say is that the OP thinks that he owns his girlfriend. Rather than being facetious any longer I'm just going to point out that you've clearly either misread what I originally wrote, or misinterpreted what I said through the filtration of other people's responses.
What I'm finding so interesting about this is that had I spoken in more poetic terms about my nuptials, my response would have been lost in the sea of well meaning advice falling on deaf ears. The OP is concerned with two things; either that his girlfriend cheated on him, or that she did something he expressly told her not to do. The former is neither here nor there, but the latter implies possessiveness, controlling behaviour, a lack of trust, and the inability to deal with somebody being their own person. Has jealousy ever had an impact besides exactly the opposite of it's intention? It's childish to believe that because you are in a relationship with somebody you have a controlling interest in their behaviour or are entitled to pass judgement on them for what they do with their time.
I think it references exactly what you were speaking of earlier re: repressiveness; the fact that I'm open about the sexual aspect of my relationship automatically means that I'm only interested in sex, or that I'm into some kind of sexual dominance or player behaviour. News flash: couples ****, most couple really ought to **** more often, and the OP is concerned that his girlfriend is either ****ing somebody other than him or isn't using her time properly in between ****ing him.
Either not that smart on her side of things (and possibly dangerous), or she knew exactly what the situation was and enjoyed the attention (assuming she didn't enjoy something else).
I tend to agree with Dr. Drew and a few of my friend's parents that people our age (I'm 22) should take things less seriously and date around more. I have friends getting married that are younger than I am... and getting divorced younger than I am. My girlfriend is going to San Diego for school and I work 6 days a week and probably won't see her much (I'm in LA). As a result we're taking a break and will probably see other people. We'll still try to share a connection and when she comes back we'll either have moved on or stayed together. If we stay together that probably is a plus point to our relationship. On the other hand, if it couldn't survive four months/a two hour drive apart... what if we had gotten married like my friends? We've managed to do this one time before and we were actually even happier with each other after.
My advise is to take it easy, date around some and when you find someone it really clicks with, none of this will be an issue. All of my friends that "try to make it work" are miserable in their relationships. The ones that just deal with the usual ills of dealing with another human being (sick, cranky, tired, PMSing, Guy-MSing, etc) seem to be rather happy
.
I tend to agree with Dr. Drew and a few of my friend's parents that people our age (I'm 22) should take things less seriously and date around more. I have friends getting married that are younger than I am... and getting divorced younger than I am. My girlfriend is going to San Diego for school and I work 6 days a week and probably won't see her much (I'm in LA). As a result we're taking a break and will probably see other people. We'll still try to share a connection and when she comes back we'll either have moved on or stayed together. If we stay together that probably is a plus point to our relationship. On the other hand, if it couldn't survive four months/a two hour drive apart... what if we had gotten married like my friends? We've managed to do this one time before and we were actually even happier with each other after.
My advise is to take it easy, date around some and when you find someone it really clicks with, none of this will be an issue. All of my friends that "try to make it work" are miserable in their relationships. The ones that just deal with the usual ills of dealing with another human being (sick, cranky, tired, PMSing, Guy-MSing, etc) seem to be rather happy
.
Go talk to some married couples and get back to us.
This is what I think a lot of people here are neglecting to grasp - when you're in a relationship, especially one the length of the OP's, what one of you does affects the other. Any decent person so involved will take this into account before embarking on such a questionable activity as the OP's girlfriend. She very clearly failed to take this into consideration when she made her choice, and that speaks ill not only for the relationship, but for the way she views him. No woman will respect a man who allows her to treat him so poorly.
Further, how would we be responding had the situation been reversed? If he had told her he ran into a woman he once knew who had designs on him and invited him up to her hotel room? I don't think there's a voice in the crowd here who wouldn't be telling him he screwed up, so why is it suddenly different in this case?
If she can exercise her freedom of choice and go hang out in a hotel room with someone who obviously wants to sleep with her, then he's equally allowed to exercise his freedom of choice with respect to staying with her.
I agree with this. While the situation as a whole may not have been that bad, and maybe both their intentions were pure as snow all along, she handled it very poorly. Before going, she should have at least been able to explain why she wanted to go see this random guy, who she'd never seen outside work before other than that one time when she turned down his advances... Not because he owns her, but out of common courtesy to a boyfriend she should care about after 3.5 years, and who seemingly communicated his confusion beforehand quite clearly.
How that translates in terms of handling it after the fact is more tricky, though...
Depending on what you mean by this, I may disagree rather strongly with it... It potentially reeks of stereotype and female willingness to take advantage of men, or something like that.
Very interesting point, especially since the OP said she'd be upset if the situation were reversed, which might speak somewhat negatively of the consistency of her character...
Some people thrive on the excitement of imagining or knowing that jealousy is being aroused by their behavior with someone other than a current partner.
It can become a self-destructive pattern, as well as dangerous to the other parties. For instance, if jealousy does not rear its head immediately, then the person may escalate the provocation, trying to see what else might bring out jealousy in one of the other parties.
Risk-taking behavior comes in many flavors, but jealousy provocation reminds me a lot of what atomic scientists call "criticality accidents." Those are events during which a critical mass of nuclear material is accidentally assembled, and goes into uncontrolled fission. There have been something like fifty or sixty documented accidents of this type in the nuclear age so far. One may wonder how this is possible, considering that the participants in these events cannot have been unaware of the potential for disaster in handling fissionable materials. But maybe they didn't think what THEY were doing would really cause a problem...
That's my take on this woman. She's not unaware of risk, although she may not realize how much danger she could be putting herself in. But then it may be the danger that appeals to her. In that case, she's not an accident waiting to happen, she's a radioactive hazard already. Either way, she seems bad news for someone who wants a stable relationship.
It can become a self-destructive pattern, as well as dangerous to the other parties. For instance, if jealousy does not rear its head immediately, then the person may escalate the provocation, trying to see what else might bring out jealousy in one of the other parties.
Risk-taking behavior comes in many flavors, but jealousy provocation reminds me a lot of what atomic scientists call "criticality accidents." Those are events during which a critical mass of nuclear material is accidentally assembled, and goes into uncontrolled fission. There have been something like fifty or sixty documented accidents of this type in the nuclear age so far. One may wonder how this is possible, considering that the participants in these events cannot have been unaware of the potential for disaster in handling fissionable materials. But maybe they didn't think what THEY were doing would really cause a problem...
That's my take on this woman. She's not unaware of risk, although she may not realize how much danger she could be putting herself in. But then it may be the danger that appeals to her. In that case, she's not an accident waiting to happen, she's a radioactive hazard already. Either way, she seems bad news for someone who wants a stable relationship.
Just posting this in case people are curious...
Thanks for the posts everyone. She came over tonight and we sat down and I laid it out and talked to her about it. She came over upset because she knew she was wrong to go. She talked to her mom about it and her best friend and they basically called her an idiot (but using nicer words of course) for going. Her mom told her "You won't be able to pull something like that when you're married" which she took quite seriously and really made her realize what exactly she had done.
I know she didn't MEAN to hurt me as much as she did, or she acted like she did for no great reason (girls do confusing things), I know she didn't do anything and felt it was innocent. Some of you may think she's cheating 100% or I'm wrong or whatever, but I've known this girl for 3.5 years (sorry, dated for 3.5 years. I've known her since I was like 12 and she's always had a crush on me since we were little) and I know she wouldn't cheat on me. It's my call to decide whether I trust her or not and believe her. It is just a situation that isn't necessary to put yourself in because of how it can make me feel and the situations that can arise from it. She felt she had good judgement of the situation because she knew the guy but based on the information I had the whole thing seemed off.
It's a relationship and there's trust and respect and I believe they're essentially interchangeable. Ex. If I was confronted with 'you either trust me or not' question, I would give the 'you either respect me or not' question. I don't think it's as black and white as you trust her or you don't, there's give and take, etc.
Anyways she apologized, cried, I told her I'm telling her how I feel about this so it doesn't happen again and she got not only my opinion but also two people close to her who shared the same thoughts as me so I didn't seem controlling or unreasonable to her. She's only ever went to do this once so it was like a one time screw up. We make mistakes, I'm willing to forgive. Of course if it happens again then that's another story.
It's a hard thing to be concerned and show that and not come across as controlling, jealous or untrusting. I told her I trust her and I said it this way: If I didn't trust you, as soon as you left for the hotel room our relationship would have been over because really, who KNOWS what could have really went down. There's no reason you need to go there. Since I trust you and you just had bad judgement this one time, we're clearly still together. I think it's a valid point.
At any rate, it's better this came up sooner than later (if we were married, say).
I told her that I trust her but I also CARE about her. She put herself in a risky situation and I want the best for not just myself but also her.
Flame me or not for staying with her, but I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and this wasn't worth ending the relationship in this case. A lot of people gave some good, rational thought out logical advice and I thank you for it!
Thanks for the posts everyone. She came over tonight and we sat down and I laid it out and talked to her about it. She came over upset because she knew she was wrong to go. She talked to her mom about it and her best friend and they basically called her an idiot (but using nicer words of course) for going. Her mom told her "You won't be able to pull something like that when you're married" which she took quite seriously and really made her realize what exactly she had done.
I know she didn't MEAN to hurt me as much as she did, or she acted like she did for no great reason (girls do confusing things), I know she didn't do anything and felt it was innocent. Some of you may think she's cheating 100% or I'm wrong or whatever, but I've known this girl for 3.5 years (sorry, dated for 3.5 years. I've known her since I was like 12 and she's always had a crush on me since we were little) and I know she wouldn't cheat on me. It's my call to decide whether I trust her or not and believe her. It is just a situation that isn't necessary to put yourself in because of how it can make me feel and the situations that can arise from it. She felt she had good judgement of the situation because she knew the guy but based on the information I had the whole thing seemed off.
It's a relationship and there's trust and respect and I believe they're essentially interchangeable. Ex. If I was confronted with 'you either trust me or not' question, I would give the 'you either respect me or not' question. I don't think it's as black and white as you trust her or you don't, there's give and take, etc.
Anyways she apologized, cried, I told her I'm telling her how I feel about this so it doesn't happen again and she got not only my opinion but also two people close to her who shared the same thoughts as me so I didn't seem controlling or unreasonable to her. She's only ever went to do this once so it was like a one time screw up. We make mistakes, I'm willing to forgive. Of course if it happens again then that's another story.
It's a hard thing to be concerned and show that and not come across as controlling, jealous or untrusting. I told her I trust her and I said it this way: If I didn't trust you, as soon as you left for the hotel room our relationship would have been over because really, who KNOWS what could have really went down. There's no reason you need to go there. Since I trust you and you just had bad judgement this one time, we're clearly still together. I think it's a valid point.
At any rate, it's better this came up sooner than later (if we were married, say).
I told her that I trust her but I also CARE about her. She put herself in a risky situation and I want the best for not just myself but also her.
Flame me or not for staying with her, but I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and this wasn't worth ending the relationship in this case. A lot of people gave some good, rational thought out logical advice and I thank you for it!
Just posting this in case people are curious...
Thanks for the posts everyone. She came over tonight and we sat down and I laid it out and talked to her about it. She came over upset because she knew she was wrong to go. She talked to her mom about it and her best friend and they basically called her an idiot (but using nicer words of course) for going. Her mom told her "You won't be able to pull something like that when you're married" which she took quite seriously and really made her realize what exactly she had done.
I know she didn't MEAN to hurt me as much as she did, or she acted like she did for no great reason (girls do confusing things), I know she didn't do anything and felt it was innocent. Some of you may think she's cheating 100% or I'm wrong or whatever, but I've known this girl for 3.5 years (sorry, dated for 3.5 years. I've known her since I was like 12 and she's always had a crush on me since we were little) and I know she wouldn't cheat on me. It's my call to decide whether I trust her or not and believe her. It is just a situation that isn't necessary to put yourself in because of how it can make me feel and the situations that can arise from it. She felt she had good judgement of the situation because she knew the guy but based on the information I had the whole thing seemed off.
It's a relationship and there's trust and respect and I believe they're essentially interchangeable. Ex. If I was confronted with 'you either trust me or not' question, I would give the 'you either respect me or not' question. I don't think it's as black and white as you trust her or you don't, there's give and take, etc.
Anyways she apologized, cried, I told her I'm telling her how I feel about this so it doesn't happen again and she got not only my opinion but also two people close to her who shared the same thoughts as me so I didn't seem controlling or unreasonable to her. She's only ever went to do this once so it was like a one time screw up. We make mistakes, I'm willing to forgive. Of course if it happens again then that's another story.
It's a hard thing to be concerned and show that and not come across as controlling, jealous or untrusting. I told her I trust her and I said it this way: If I didn't trust you, as soon as you left for the hotel room our relationship would have been over because really, who KNOWS what could have really went down. There's no reason you need to go there. Since I trust you and you just had bad judgement this one time, we're clearly still together. I think it's a valid point.
At any rate, it's better this came up sooner than later (if we were married, say).
I told her that I trust her but I also CARE about her. She put herself in a risky situation and I want the best for not just myself but also her.
Flame me or not for staying with her, but I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and this wasn't worth ending the relationship in this case. A lot of people gave some good, rational thought out logical advice and I thank you for it!
I think she owes you though. If you know what I mean....
you always end up hurting the ones you love. it's impossible not too. we all do dumb things more then we should it is the human condition.
There is no ring on her finger, and she isn't something you own. If you can't deal with this, you won't be able to deal with her in the future. Whether or not she did anything, this relationship is over as the trust is gone. One lost, never recovered.
lol what? the trust is gone? the trust is not gone at all
she's a childhood friend and a family friend (our parents are long time friends), families intertwined... she's not some random. we plan on getting married there may as well be a ring on her finger
It seems that you're upset because she didn't do what you wanted her to. However, she's an adult and is capable of making her own decisions. Her actions did not harm you in any way; they just made you uncomfortable and jealous. But you nevertheless want to be able to tell her what she can and cannot do in her own life, and then browbeat her and make her feel guilty for making her own choices irrespective of what YOU think she should be doing. That is pretty much the definition of controlling.
And if she wants to cheat on you, there is absolutely nothing you canor shoulddo to stop her. She is not your property, and wouldn't be even if the two of you were married. If there are boundaries she knows not to cross if she wants to stay in a relationship with you, and you trust her enough to not cross those boundaries, then you owe her the respect to make her own decisions without feeling like you have to check up on her, or tell her what's appropriate and what isn't. The problem is that you DON'T trust her, or you would have nothing to worry about. And your pretense of "caring" about her not putting herself in danger is unconvincing. Be honest with yourselfyou know there was zero chance of her getting raped or harmed. The guy may be a sleaze, but it's a long way from a sleaze to a rapist. The only thing you're communicating with your "concern" is that you think your girlfriend is a moron who can't tell when she's putting herself in danger.
If you really did trust and respect her, this whole thing would be a nonissue for both of you. If you don't believe that, ask yourself why she did it. She clearly knew you weren't okay with it, and did it anyway. It sounds like she was bristling at your controlling nature and the fact that you fundamentally didn't trust her or her judgement, and thus decided to assert her independence. I don't blame her a bit. If somebody tried to tell me that I wasn't smart, mature, or sensible enough to handle a situation I was voluntarily putting myself into, my response would pretty much be, "Screw you; I'm a grown-up and I can handle myself." I would have done the same thing she did in her position, except I would have told you to back off and not been apologetic about it later.
If you want my advice, go to her and tell her you're sorry for making it an issue, and that you really do trust her and her judgement. Tell her you respect her as an adult, and that you were wrong to get so upset about her making her own decisions about what was in her best interest. Then cool it with the whole jealousy thing. Seriously. It will only drive you apart. Do you honestly think if, when she said she was going to go to the guy's hotel room, you had just said "okay, have a good time", that she would have cheated on you? If so, then ask yourself if you can really stay in a relationship with a woman who is inclined to cheat on you as soon as you stop watching her like a hawk. And if not, why did you feel the need to make a big deal over nothing?
Think it over for a bit. You can either continue to punish her and make her feel guilty for doing nothing at all wrong except not doing what you wanted her to, or you can use the opportunity to build trust and respect in your relationship. It sounds like right now, there isn't very much trust or respect between the two of you. You can go and blame her for that if you like, but it's really the fault of both of you. Respect begets respect, and trust begets trust. Start showing her some, and you might gain a partner for life. But if you'd rather have an obedient pet, get a dog.
And if she wants to cheat on you, there is absolutely nothing you canor shoulddo to stop her. She is not your property, and wouldn't be even if the two of you were married. If there are boundaries she knows not to cross if she wants to stay in a relationship with you, and you trust her enough to not cross those boundaries, then you owe her the respect to make her own decisions without feeling like you have to check up on her, or tell her what's appropriate and what isn't. The problem is that you DON'T trust her, or you would have nothing to worry about. And your pretense of "caring" about her not putting herself in danger is unconvincing. Be honest with yourselfyou know there was zero chance of her getting raped or harmed. The guy may be a sleaze, but it's a long way from a sleaze to a rapist. The only thing you're communicating with your "concern" is that you think your girlfriend is a moron who can't tell when she's putting herself in danger.
If you really did trust and respect her, this whole thing would be a nonissue for both of you. If you don't believe that, ask yourself why she did it. She clearly knew you weren't okay with it, and did it anyway. It sounds like she was bristling at your controlling nature and the fact that you fundamentally didn't trust her or her judgement, and thus decided to assert her independence. I don't blame her a bit. If somebody tried to tell me that I wasn't smart, mature, or sensible enough to handle a situation I was voluntarily putting myself into, my response would pretty much be, "Screw you; I'm a grown-up and I can handle myself." I would have done the same thing she did in her position, except I would have told you to back off and not been apologetic about it later.
If you want my advice, go to her and tell her you're sorry for making it an issue, and that you really do trust her and her judgement. Tell her you respect her as an adult, and that you were wrong to get so upset about her making her own decisions about what was in her best interest. Then cool it with the whole jealousy thing. Seriously. It will only drive you apart. Do you honestly think if, when she said she was going to go to the guy's hotel room, you had just said "okay, have a good time", that she would have cheated on you? If so, then ask yourself if you can really stay in a relationship with a woman who is inclined to cheat on you as soon as you stop watching her like a hawk. And if not, why did you feel the need to make a big deal over nothing?
Think it over for a bit. You can either continue to punish her and make her feel guilty for doing nothing at all wrong except not doing what you wanted her to, or you can use the opportunity to build trust and respect in your relationship. It sounds like right now, there isn't very much trust or respect between the two of you. You can go and blame her for that if you like, but it's really the fault of both of you. Respect begets respect, and trust begets trust. Start showing her some, and you might gain a partner for life. But if you'd rather have an obedient pet, get a dog.
