Thinking of cancelling new M1 MacBook Pro order due to notch

[Ansath]

• 1080 under screen cameras exist. Period. The reviews on the second gen Axon ARE GOOD. The software works out the images and reviewers have been impressed. Not bad for a $400 phone from a company much smaller than Apple.

Wow, I give you 7 reviews that all point out that it's not taking good quality images compared to other phones that are not under the screen, 1 review shows a 720p image from another phone that does not have it under the screen and that looks superior to the Axon 30. You can bang on about it being 1080p, but due to the screen/sensors, it's not a great quality image, as I have repeatedly stated, yet you ignore.

You have 1 YouTuber says that it was better than expected (again, the title is misleading when you take it out of context, as you seem to have done) within the video he states that it's better than he expected, not that it's better than phones that do not use the same tech. You can see the image is not as good as a front facing camera that's not under the screen. They also show a problem with it using it's image quality enhancement that caused an orange smudge due to it not being able to handle the light source from the lamp.

You've obviously just seen the title of the video, thinking that would prove your point, but as per what you've shown repeatedly, is that you are selective with things to try and support your argument, and then ignoring when you're called out on it, with evidence to the contrary.

• The notch only exists because Apple failed to innovate, and itself is missing Face ID and Centre Stage.
• This is a failure.
• When Apple launches products with no notch, you will line up, like many others, and buy them, and never use notch based devices again.
• End of story.
• You will continue to post and argue even though you've stated you won't post anymore, defending Apple who failed in this area.

Repeating those points, of which point 2 is factually untrue, point 1 shows that there is no room in the notch for the hardware to provide FaceID (due to the fact that the MacBook lid is thinner than the iPhones and iPads - again facts you choose to ignore) & the rest is just immature repetitive behaviour, which is just hysterical.

Since you repeatedly ignore facts & evidence that prove your points to be flawed, you just make this entire thread a joke.

Since you want to repeat your nonsense points, I am going to repeat my evidence that proves your Axon 30 argument to be proof against the point your trying to make. That the technology is getting there, but is not there yet.....

Here's some more reviews from reputable sites, that all say that that the photos from the front camera are just not good enough yet:
Axon 30 GSM Arena Review
Engadget Axon 30 Review
Toms Guide Axon 30 Review - Even has a nice Photo comparison to the Galaxy A52, showing the poor quality of the Axon 30 front camera photos.
TechRadar Axon 30 Review
Android Authority (Included since they are Android focused, it couldn't be stated that they are Apple biased).
Anand Tech Axon 30 Review
Android Central Review
Just since you seemed to have ignored this review the first time around: TechAdvisor

Again, as repeatedly stated, I am not actually defending Apple. If the technology was out there, where a high quality 1080p image, equivalent to a non-under screen camera, existed, then I would actually be complaining to Apple. Since it's not, and since the notch is a minor annoyance, compared to the benefits of the hardware in the MacBook, it's not the issue you make it out to be. A fact which has been proven by the amount of people in this thread, elsewhere in this forum, on Reddit, etc have stated. You seem to repeatedly ignore posts by other people in this thread that tell you real world usage of the hardware, again since you know it proves your overdramatic about it.

I bet you just respond to this, making some lame excuses, or selectively take something out of context thinking it supports your point, and then just repeat a bunch of your bullet points again, as if that proves you right (it doesn't). ? Either way, I don't care, as you've been proven wrong repeatedly.

End of Story, BooksBooks is closed.

 

[Rafterman]

Apple is now living the notch life. Get used to it. Expect notches on new iPads too, soon.

 

[redheeler]

I'm surprised the notch isn't a bit smaller considering how much more tech the notch on an iPhone 13 packs into such a small space. But realistically the notched region of the MBP has only one purpose which is to provide space for the menu bar in windowed mode, just as the notched region of the iPhone really only provides space for the status bar, I still think of both as a fancy bezel area that's more useful than the blank bezel which the prior models had in that location.

 

[bobcomer]

Apple is now living the notch life. Get used to it. Expect notches on new iPads too, soon.

I'm not so sure, you need a pretty good sized bezel to hold an iPad, especially the bigger ones, so they don't need a notch, but then again, I have seen apple do stupider things.

I finally caved and ordered a new 14" MBP Max, the apps that hide the notch by turning the menu bar black look like they'll work for me. Everything else about the new MBP I like, so I couldn't resist any longer. (I'm a sucker for a fast machine that doesn't things I like)

 

[Appledoesnotlisten]

you didn't. the 16:10 display is fully intact below the notch area. And, as has been pointed out, there are things about the macos system such as the menu bar that conveniently make use of this extra vertical space.

Man, you are so wrong.
You actually DO lose vertical space in the apps that do not have a menu bar.

 

[booksbooks]

I'm surprised the notch isn't a bit smaller considering how much more tech the notch on an iPhone 13 packs into such a small space. But realistically the notched region of the MBP has only one purpose which is to provide space for the menu bar in windowed mode, just as the notched region of the iPhone really only provides space for the status bar, I still think of both as a fancy bezel area that's more useful than the blank bezel which the prior models had in that location.

The reason the notch still exists is because: 1. Apple does not move as fast as it did under Steve Jobs. 2. They are holding back.

The technology is available to do good invisible cameras embedded in the screen and with Apple's talent and money they could make it industry leading. The fact that Apple doesn't have Centre Stage or Face ID in this new MacBook Pro demonstrates that they were willing to leave out features that could lend itself do achieving an under screen camera.

Apple may have wanted to do a notchless MacBook Pro and I'm willing to bet that they have a host of prototypes with no notch and an under screen camera (they filed for a patent for this)... but they did not provide that on launch. Just like there's evidence that the new leaked Apple Watch 7 design didn't happen because they failed to make it happen in time and had to quickly revert back to an old design on the new Apple Watch 7...

And then we have the vapourware Apple Car that's been going for how many years with a constant flow of people in and out of the team...

Which leads to: what has Apple really innovated since Steve Jobs died? Not much. We still have effectively the same operating systems and don't bother saying the M1 because Jobs is the reason Apple silicon even exists as that all started long ago. Apple has done some good things but there's been too many bad things, like the crap butterfly keyboards on MacBook Pros, the Apple TV remote, the dizzying array of product options and watering things down... the stock misses and failure to launch things, etc.

I pulled out my original iPhone from 2007 and iOS looks effectively exactly the same as it does today. Sure the screen technology is better today but the operating systems (iOS and Mac OS) are really stuck. I hate Windows but admire certain aspects of what Microsoft has been able to do software and hardware wise, with innovative and high quality laptops and desktops (Surface Studio Pro) that include touch. On our side of the fence, we get a heavy and thick laptop with legacy ports added back on and a notch that lacks even features that an iPad Mini has.

 

[3Rock]

Here is another video on the notch that you may or may not wish to look at.

 

[booksbooks]

Here is Apple's patent on an invisible, under screen camera that they filed in the summer. It is very lengthy and extensive. Apple has clearly worked on this for quite some time, probably several years. It's clear that they have developed it. It covers both phones and laptops/desktops.

https://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN/11073712

My guess is that Apple, aside from failing to innovate, decided not to include an under screen camera as described in their patent for fear of slowing iPhone 13 sales, because people would then think they would use the technology on iPhone 14... and chunks of people would wait for that next year and not buy the iPhone 13. It's rumoured that the iPhone 14 may have this technology thereby eliminating the notch... which would make sense for Apple as described... to do it on the iPhone first... then the following year the MacBook Pros may get the same treatment. So perhaps between 2-3 years from now, we may see a notchless MacBook Pro.

 

[Rafterman]

I'm not so sure, you need a pretty good sized bezel to hold an iPad, especially the bigger ones, so they don't need a notch, but then again, I have seen apple do stupider things.

I finally caved and ordered a new 14" MBP Max, the apps that hide the notch by turning the menu bar black look like they'll work for me. Everything else about the new MBP I like, so I couldn't resist any longer. (I'm a sucker for a fast machine that doesn't things I like)

I have a 14 Pro 1TB model. It works fine, and the notch doesn't't bother me from an atheistic standpoint. But its interfering in the use of the machine, and it needs to be fixed by Apple. Either scale the menu bar to fit items, or allow items to carry over to the other side the notch (or both methods). Apple can't just tell people to lose screen real estate.

 

[lordhamster]

IMO this is all notch ado about nothing.

 

[bobdobalina]

I can't be the only person who would rather not have a camera than have a notch.

 

[Ansath]

Here is another video on the notch that you may or may not wish to look at.

That video is bang on the money.

no doubt, the OP will ignore it, as real world usage poo poos on their, increasingly absurd ratings.

 

[Ansath]

I'm surprised the notch isn't a bit smaller considering how much more tech the notch on an iPhone 13 packs into such a small space. But realistically the notched region of the MBP has only one purpose which is to provide space for the menu bar in windowed mode, just as the notched region of the iPhone really only provides space for the status bar, I still think of both as a fancy bezel area that's more useful than the blank bezel which the prior models had in that location.

It’s due to the fact the MacBook Pro lid has less space internally, people are only focusing on the 2D aspect of the notch, not the depth.

As can be seen in a tear down, what’s there takes up the whole space, in 3 dimensions, meaning not much space for anything else on this generation of the device. Likely the next generation will see progress though & Apple are clearly wanting to get away from the notch, but the tech isn’t ready yet, to provide the quality they want with an under screen camera, especially they can’t handle doing FaceID with its current security level when based under the screen, from what’s said about android devices trying that route.

The tech is moving in the right direction, as current devices trying under screen cameras are better than the ones from last couple years, but not as good quality as the cheapo android phones that have come out this year, that’s have standard hole punch front camera.

(the OP has been told this at least 6 times, but ignores these facts, as it ruins they rant, which has become more of a ‘I hate Apple since Steve left as he was perfect’ rant).

 

[bobcomer]

I can't be the only person who would rather not have a camera than have a notch.

No, you're not, but we can get what we can get.

 

[JonTa]

I can't be the only person who would rather not have a camera than have a notch.

Count me in! I just dont get it, I mean all the "pros" probably have their iphones or ipads to get video calls possible, the macbook is productive machine and the notch gets in the way big time! ugly duck design

 

[booksbooks]

I can't be the only person who would rather not have a camera than have a notch.

I'm with you man.

 

[booksbooks]

It’s due to the fact the MacBook Pro lid has less space internally, people are only focusing on the 2D aspect of the notch, not the depth.

As can be seen in a tear down, what’s there takes up the whole space, in 3 dimensions, meaning not much space for anything else on this generation of the device. Likely the next generation will see progress though & Apple are clearly wanting to get away from the notch, but the tech isn’t ready yet, to provide the quality they want with an under screen camera, especially they can’t handle doing FaceID with its current security level when based under the screen, from what’s said about android devices trying that route.

The tech is moving in the right direction, as current devices trying under screen cameras are better than the ones from last couple years, but not as good quality as the cheapo android phones that have come out this year, that’s have standard hole punch front camera.

(the OP has been told this at least 6 times, but ignores these facts, as it ruins they rant, which has become more of a ‘I hate Apple since Steve left as he was perfect’ rant).

It's due to Apple failing to innovate, nothing more.

 

[Ansath]

Count me in! I just dont get it, I mean all the "pros" probably have their iphones or ipads to get video calls possible, the macbook is productive machine and the notch gets in the way big time! ugly duck design

I work in a pro industry, and we cannot use our own iPhones/iPads for meetings, as they are not part of the corporate network.

Also, there's been tons of threads with each of the previous releases criticising the 720p front facing camera, stating should be 1080p (which is now the case). So, if the camera was removed totally, that would be infinitely more of an issue than a notch that is not obstructive to productivity.

Do we want a notch? no. Do we know that it's a compromise and will go away once there's technology there to provide a 1080p image that is not rubbish in quality, to do it under the screen, or within the smaller bezel.

 

[BJonson]

I don't care about the screen real estate, I don't care about the camera. The notch adds a complexity that is unnecessary to the apps and OS and it's ugly. It's just apple being stupid, just like with the butterfly keyboard.

 

[lordhamster]

I can't be the only person who would rather not have a camera than have a notch.

It would be nice if it was optional I suppose.

That said, I prefer the camera notch over the old setup with huge bezels. At least this way the menu bar is up and out of the way where before it cut into my real estate.

I'd rather have the camera on the laptop (in the era of zoom calls) than have the stupid HDMI port and SD card reader. A little HDMI dongle is certainly smaller to schlep around than a webcam.

 

[booksbooks]

It would be nice if it was optional I suppose.

That said, I prefer the camera notch over the old setup with huge bezels. At least this way the menu bar is up and out of the way where before it cut into my real estate.

I'd rather have the camera on the laptop (in the era of zoom calls) than have the stupid HDMI port and SD card reader. A little HDMI dongle is certainly smaller to schlep around than a webcam.

Have you used the new Macbook Pro? You realize in some cases those bezels return digitally in certain use cases.

 

[booksbooks]

Apple could have given us a notchless Macbook Pro. They failed. We won’t see it for 2-3 years, and then these computers will be worthless.

 

[3Rock]

Apple could have given us a notchless Macbook Pro. They failed. We won’t see it for 2-3 years, and then these computers will be worthless.

They will never be worthless. What were you thinking

 

[lordhamster]

Have you used the new Macbook Pro? You realize in some cases those bezels return digitally in certain use cases.

I'm on a 14 inch right now. I generally won't work on laptop screens (use them closed in clamshell mode hooked to a 49 inch), but from what I saw when setting it up... I feel like I have MORE space than before rather than less.

Rather than thinking they cut down on screen space by inserting a notch, I feel like they cut into bezel space by raising the menu bar around the camera area. I guess it is a matter of perspective and personal preference. To me, its notch a big deal.

 

[jclardy]

Man, you are so wrong.
You actually DO lose vertical space in the apps that do not have a menu bar.

So games? What professional Mac app doesn't have a menu bar?