I think your arrogance is preventing you from understanding my concerns. Best you move on.
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Why abandon touchid
- Thread starter Pelea
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I think your arrogance is preventing you from understanding my concerns. Best you move on.
Nah, I will not.
It’s your paranoia preventing you to understanding the technology behind FaceID.
As many others have also pointed out to you, your paranoia of FaceID is wrong.
You seem to be the only person who seems to understand my concern. I understand the data is stored locally. That is what we are TOLD. How do we know the data cannot be subpoenaed, or hacked? If someone were to obtain my fingerprint data there is not much they could do with it. A physical fingerprint would still be needed to use the data elsewhere. Face ID could be used to identify a person based on the collected facial data. Anyone who hacked facial ID data could find you based on your image and track you a lot easier than using a fingerprint.
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I was waiting for the “paranoia” phrase to be used. You are defending technology on an iPhone that has not yet been implemented. If you think your facial data will always remain anonymous only shows your naitivity. You have no idea what my profession is, nor I yours, but from what I have seen in my course of employment leads me to believe you have no idea what you are talking about but feel your clever retorts to defend a technology you want to imbrace but do not understand, somehow makes you an authority. Best of luck to you. Make sure you smile when they scan your face.
And you are bashing technology on an iPhone that you yourself have not tried and have no idea how exactly it works.
I remember hearing this argument hashed out when TouchID was introduced.
This will be a non issue again with FaceID.
Anything is hackable with enough time and resources.
If you were truly worried about your identity being compromised, you would not be using a smartphone at all.
Apple has already spoken publically about how it works. Talked about it in interviews, official documents and white papers.
Also another poster addressed it all in a post to you https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-abandon-touchid.2077740/page-3#post-25224394 it’s not a photo of your face stored in the Secure Enclave. It’s a mathematical algorithm of the data it captures when you do the scan.
Good luck hacking into the Secure Enclave or taking footage from a store security camera to fool FaceID.
So at first it was about my paranoia regarding a technology I don’t understand, and now you admit any phone can be compromised, but the issue is my use of a smartphone. Ok.
Exactly. “Data” that can be shared. So Apple tells it is stored locally. Our government has also told us they do not mine data on Americans. Have you read an Apple user agreement? Your privacy and your rights mean very little.
Look, I’m not trying to stick my head in the sand and ignore progress. If you feel comfortable investing in this technology fine, go for it. I will not be joining you.
Except that fingerprint data and facial data is not shared at all. Not from the device to iTunes nor iCloud.
And the way things are going, a corporation rates more highly on the trust scale than the government.
First of all, I’m a fan of FaceID and look forward to getting an iPhone X. I understand the secure enclave and mathematical representation and so on.
However, what about the demo during the announcement where they were showing a Snapchat filter overlying something on his face? If I understood the point, Snapchat was able to do that with face information. So doesn’t that imply that Snapchat received some form of 3D model of the user’s face to map the texture onto the image properly? Doesn’t that mean that a third party app has access to the face information? You can’t map a texture onto a mathematical representation of a face.
I’m still not concerned. The government already keeps a photo of me on file thanks to having a drivers license. And as security conscious as Apple is, I’m sure it’s been thought through. I’m just curious how it’s being done securely.
However, what about the demo during the announcement where they were showing a Snapchat filter overlying something on his face? If I understood the point, Snapchat was able to do that with face information. So doesn’t that imply that Snapchat received some form of 3D model of the user’s face to map the texture onto the image properly? Doesn’t that mean that a third party app has access to the face information? You can’t map a texture onto a mathematical representation of a face.
I’m still not concerned. The government already keeps a photo of me on file thanks to having a drivers license. And as security conscious as Apple is, I’m sure it’s been thought through. I’m just curious how it’s being done securely.
The data is not shared...it’s on a separate chip dedicated to storing and encrypting that data. Only to be accessed when authentication is asked upon. It’s been this way for TouchID for a long time too. Have you heard of people fingerprint data being stolen from the Secure Enclave? Not even Apple has access.
Apple values privacy far more than any other smartphone manufacturer. This has been their firm stand and focus they’ve had for a long time now. When it comes to iOS, it’s a major point of what their known for now and something it has a huge edge over Android.
This is ignoring the facts on a crazy high level.
Haven’t heard of that happening with Android either. Are there some documented cases of Android data being breached?
The Snapchat and Animojis stuff doesn’t use all the same data gathered for FaceID and authentication. Apps will have access to the sensors but I can guarantee the API doesn’t give full access to all the data. It for sure does not access your scan or anything in the Secure Enclave. It’s given just enough data from the sensors to track a face to overlay AR objects or move 3D model object, such as an Animoji. (IE enough to know where the eyes are, how the brows are moving, how the mouth is moving, and so on. Apps won’t know you’re face in as much detail as FaceID will.)
Why? If you want to invest in the technology do it. What part of my concern is crazy? Not believing in information provided by a corporation?
Lots of arguments here to support and trust the technology. I admire your enthusiasm. Just playing devils advocate.
Your concerns are misguided and lacks any understanding of the technology in question.
You have every right to not like it. However at least understand it and have a real reason not to. Not just a corporations lie conspiracy and the data is easily at risk.
A lot of folks can’t use toichid for one reason or another. If your hands are sweaty, calloused, or just plain old/worn, it doesn’t work.
I honestly don’t know how often people wear clothing in front of their faces in the winter except in the harshest climates. And in said climates I would think most would wear gloves anyway?
Not trying to argue but I think for any example we come up with against fsceid right now (especially before using it) we can come up with an example against touchid too. I certainly love Touch ID but it’s absoktely not without its faults. Ask anyone that goes to the gym or works out. And that’s a pretty common use scenario for phones.
I honestly don’t know how often people wear clothing in front of their faces in the winter except in the harshest climates. And in said climates I would think most would wear gloves anyway?
Not trying to argue but I think for any example we come up with against fsceid right now (especially before using it) we can come up with an example against touchid too. I certainly love Touch ID but it’s absoktely not without its faults. Ask anyone that goes to the gym or works out. And that’s a pretty common use scenario for phones.
Android is by far easier to hack into (maybe not their version of a Secure Enclave, but the device itself.) Because Android is open.
Apple put their foot down and quite publically a couple years ago to the FBI. Because the FBI could not get into a device, and wanted Apple to write new code to allow them to get into it (key word “write new code” because Apple themselves doesn’t even have the capability to if locked with a passcode)
The FBI doesn’t ask this of Google, because they can get into them just fine.
Also it’s Google. A word that is never next to the word “privacy”. Unless it’s of course to say how loose their privacy policy is. It’s their core business to know all your data. It’s what makes them money.
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Not to mention if it’s so cold out to require a full on scarf (say -30C in Canada) then I wouldn’t want to pull my phone out anyways. It’s not good for the device or battery to be used in that temperature. I’ve seen my own phone battery charge go from 90% to 30% to shutting off as in 0% in a matter of minutes (and not gradually, it was literal jumps in %), while being exposed to very cold weather. Even in something like -10C I’ve seen it happen with enough windchill.
Admittedly I haven’t used it, but FaceID just seems so... cheesy. Ooh, look at me, I can look at my phone and unlock it! It just seems so tacky to me.
Just my personal opinion, I know I’m gunna get ripped to shreds.
I’m more than happy with my 8 with TouchID, works lightning fast, barely have to touch it and it works.
You don’t think it’s cheesy opening a phone with your fingerprint? You’re not James bloody Bond you know.
*scanning fingerprint matrix*
*ACCESS ALLOWED*
Any biometric security is cheesy Mission Impossible stuff.
That’s exactly right.Dev only get information about how you move your face,not raw information from TrueDepth camera.
There are many pretenders on here
, who may appear to discuss things respectfully, but if you delve into their post history & 'like' patterns, you realise immaturity/belittling shine as their true colours.I may need to start making use of the ignore feature here..
There are many pretenders on here
I may need to make use of the ignore feature here..
I see it as everybody's entitled to their opinion and there is nothing wrong with disagreements.. But when somebody presents facts in a discussion and somebody still denies what's Presented to them, to me that shows somebody that clearly won't acknowledge factual evidence that is put in front of them just for the sake of arguing. And then when you look at previous post history, that's truly indicative of how somebody is based on their previous statements.
Quite the contrary. An Android phone was shown this summer with a prototype Qualcomm ultrasonic behind-the-display finger sensor.
It's expected that OLED phones will be using it by Spring.
(It's not reliable behind thicker LCD displays, so such phones will instead be forced to either keep separate fingerprint sensors, or use 3D facial like Apple.)
Yes, but with the right software, photos or a video can be converted into 3D data to make a head model. That said, carrying such a model would be a dead giveaway while trying to use Apple Pay
Hold on. People are conflating things here.
FaceId is less likely to match a different face, is all.
Nobody said it was more secure from the standpoint of fooling it. We're going to have to wait to see about that. It took just days to show that TouchId could be easily fooled. Not that consumers cared.
1. The data is only a mathematical set of vectors, not the source 3D data. Granted, if someone had the same match algorithm, just the match data would be useful.
2. Doesn't matter, because it cannot be retrieved, period. Applications can only ask the Secure Enclave if there's a match. There's no interface to request the match data, which was also calculated within the Secure Enclave.
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Are you serious? If it’s that cold that you have to cover your face wouldn’t you wear a glove?!
And Touch ID doesn’t have any downsides?
1) I live in a warm country and my hands sweat a lot, so a lot of the time Touch ID doesn’t work.
2) When you’re working with something or even cooking and your hands get even a little dirty, Touch ID doesn’t work.
As for when you’re in class, you don’t have to directly point the device at your face, it’s enough if you look down a for a second. IMO Face ID is much more convenient, it’ll be like your phone doesn’t even have a password, you just swipe up. I’m 100% sure people will love it when they use it.
And Touch ID doesn’t have any downsides?
1) I live in a warm country and my hands sweat a lot, so a lot of the time Touch ID doesn’t work.
2) When you’re working with something or even cooking and your hands get even a little dirty, Touch ID doesn’t work.
As for when you’re in class, you don’t have to directly point the device at your face, it’s enough if you look down a for a second. IMO Face ID is much more convenient, it’ll be like your phone doesn’t even have a password, you just swipe up. I’m 100% sure people will love it when they use it.
I think abandoning TouchId was done, because Apple failed to integrate an under the screen finger print sensor. So they went with plan B, imo.