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Apple Again Hits Back at Nokia in Patent Dispute

SeattleMoose said:
1. Declare Finland a terrorist state
2. Send in troops
3. Bomb them into stone age
4. "Rebuild" using US companies ONLY

Problem solved!!!! ;)
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If we get a Republican President, House and Senate in the next few years, that is not far of a stretch. Hell, make a deal with Russian and we can split the place in two!
 
kdarling said:
Engadget says, " Nokia isn't even really asking for money damages beyond interest on past due royalties, it just wants a fair license rate for its patents. "

True, but Nokia also hints that they'd like "any other such relief as may be appropriate", since they claim Apple has been able to charge less by not paying iPhone license fees, and has thus unfairly won away Nokia market share.

One of Apple's habits in these legal disputes, is that they often brag about how successful they are. That's great, but I suspect that American juries tend to like the underdog in business trials. And Nokia has demanded a trial by jury.

Thoughts? Is a jury trial more in favor of Apple or Nokia?
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I don't think Nokia would benefit from a jury trial...at all. The very word "Nokia" personally brings back bad memories of tech suckiness.
 
Rocketman said:
You are incorrect. They have a form of sovereign immunity. Their entire risk is monetary and minor. Apple will not be as punitive to them as they are to Apple in the final analysis. That's the problem with ethical people.

Rocketman
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I think you missed the fact that they are crap. AND that people are actually starting to notice that.
 
Skika said:
I think you missed the fact that they are crap. AND that people are actually starting to notice that.
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They will suffer in the market. We accept that. They accept that. This is war. This is litigation.

They have the sovereignty of a corporation. They have the sovereignty of a corporation residing in a different country. Their only recourse is money.

I hope their risks include:

Money

Criminal charges to the "corporation" and its principals. (That's always dickless)

International trade restrictions for a firm and product that does not honor its contracts. (ditto)

I almost never get my wish.

Rocketman

I know how to solve USA poverty but do not have access to the politics/government to communicate the method. "All good ideas go to Washington DC to die."
 
Rocketman said:
They will suffer in the market. We accept that. They accept that. This is war. This is litigation.

They have the sovereignty of a corporation. They have the sovereignty of a corporation residing in a different country. Their only recourse is money.

I hope their risks include:

Money

Criminal charges to the "corporation" and its principals. (That's always dickless)

International trade restrictions for a firm and product that does not honor its contracts. (ditto)

I almost never get my wish.

Rocketman

I know how to solve USA poverty but do not have access to the politics/government to communicate the method. "All good ideas go to Washington DC to die."
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Each side risks only money, or an injunction preventing sales of one or more of their products in the U.S., or an importation ban on one or more of their products. Each side also risks the validity of their patents, and thus license income. All told, Apple has far more to lose, it would seem, unless Nokia relies heavily on its license income.
 
Rocketman said:
They will suffer in the market. We accept that. They accept that. This is war. This is litigation.

They have the sovereignty of a corporation. They have the sovereignty of a corporation residing in a different country. Their only recourse is money.

I hope their risks include:

Money

Criminal charges to the "corporation" and its principals. (That's always dickless)

International trade restrictions for a firm and product that does not honor its contracts. (ditto)

I almost never get my wish.

Rocketman

I know how to solve USA poverty but do not have access to the politics/government to communicate the method. "All good ideas go to Washington DC to die."
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From this sentence structure one could surmise English is not your primary language, eh Comrade?
 
cmaier said:
Well, let's pick some common definitions:

In this one, Nokia has not obtained any property. If it does manage to obtain property it will be because a court of law has decided it deserves that property, and thus there was no wrongfulness.

Here's another:

Again, nokia has not "obtained property of another." It hasn't inflcited bodily injury or committed another criminal offense. It hasn't accused anyone of criminal offense. (3) doesn't apply. Neither does (4) or (5). Neither does (6). It did inflict harm (by filing suit) but it does benefit the actor, so (7) doesn't apply.

How about British common law:

Nope. Nokia isn't a government officer, nor has it "taken any money."

How about California's extortion statute?

Again, nothing was obtained. If it is obtained, it won't be with Apple's consent. No public officer involved here.

There isn't even the right kind of "force or fear," which is:
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Hmmm.... you seem to have overlooked one detail. The definition of extortion that was posted stated "... unlawful demand or receipt of monies or properties..." Based on that, the mere act of demanding higher fees could be considered extortion, could it not?
 
Nokia is attacking Apple right now because:
1. They are losing marketshare to Apple now globally.
2. Their patents are about to expire.

What Is a Patent?

A patent for an invention is the grant of a property right to the inventor, issued by the United States Patent and Trademark Office. Generally, the term of a new patent is 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States or, in special cases, from the date an earlier related application was filed, subject to the payment of maintenance fees. U.S. patent grants are effective only within the United States, U.S. territories, and U.S. possessions. Under certain circumstances, patent term extensions or adjustments may be available.
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If the patents in question were filed in 1990 or 1991, their window to collect licensing fees is about to close.
 
Boycott Nokia in the US?

What good would it do to boycott Nokia in the US. We chose to leave Europe behind when we lefft there & other parts of the world to come here for freedom from government, religion & other things unless we as individuals choose them. We have already decided that we do not like the Symbian OS. This means the iPhone, Android Web/OS for us.

Some patents on both sides need to be classified as what a normal person could do on their own & thus not a patentable item. I'm sure that there may be a few companies that only patent items & things that are really unique, but by time one gets as big as Nokia or Apple that can hardly be true.

It is time for the patent system & all of those that use the system to grow up a lot, not just a little anymore.
 
rrandyy said:
Nokia is not a troll, by definition. Patent trolls generally do not utilize the patents they own.

What Apple is doing is called "mutually assured destruction." Most tech companies file patents as a protection mechanism in addition to the traditional reasons. That way, when someone sues them they can dig up their own patents that are potentially being infringed and counter sue. This gives the initiating party (Nokia, in this case) an incentive to settle.

At the same time, both Apple and Nokia will be working on potential work-arounds for the patents they are being sued for. If an injunction is handed down, they can move to this work-around as a backup plan. It's unlikely that either company has a patent so fundamental that a work-around cannot be constructed.
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Wow, you must be a lawyer. Gosh, you know so much!
 
cmaier said:
If I was Nokia I'd be far more worried about patent invalidity. There have been a series of Supreme Court decisions in the last few years that have made it far easier to invalidate patents (particularly the KSR case), and it's very common for courts to find invalidity.
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And I'm sure that Nokia's lawyers weighed that risk and decided it wasn't large enough to prevent them from filing the lawsuit.

At the end of the day Nokia simply wants to get paid for their IP as they should. The entire battle between them and Apple is going to be about how much Nokia gets paid.
 
I'm shocked about how Apple & Nokia behave like to little children quarreling about toys in their sandbox .....
 
heisetax said:
We chose to leave Europe behind when we lefft there & other parts of the world to come here for freedom from government, religion & other things unless we as individuals choose them.
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I'd be careful when talking like that, there's a difference between truth and patriotism. You're bordering on blind patriotism.
 
rrandyy said:
Couldn't you say the same thing about Apple then? Nokia is refusing to license Nokia technology to Apple, and Apple is throwing a fit in court.
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No because the technologies that Apple need to license for GMS, etc, etc are now standards and Nokia promised the body that administers the cellular standards they would licensed under fair terms because they were necessary.

Apple argue that if the standards board had known that Nokia wanted to charge what they did they would have gone for one of the other competing technologies.

Apples patents that Nokia wants are not essential to phones, Nokias are, hence why Apple doesn't have to license anything, Nokia does under an agreement they signed
 
I don't care who is right and who is wrong I just hope Apple wins this case, because Apple delivers a lot of good products I can actually use and enjoy using. Call me fanboy makes no difference for me.
 
I'm loving to see how the forum suddenly becomes full of law experts! Apple should hire some of you here for a unearthly high wage rate! :D
 
MadIvan said:
You folks must be reading a different thread than i am. Aside from one obvious troll post about Nokia, I have mostly seen Apple haters and Nokia Fanboys posting nonsense. Where are the Apple fanboys you people claim exist? I don't see them.
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Look at the amount of people who rated this as a positive, and then look at the amount of people who rated the original story a negative.
 
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